Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

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Doesn't this contradict the apparently unorganized nature of TB's murder?

Ironworker seems to have a recurring strategy of asking very specific questions that cast doubt on posts that he has read.
It would interesting to have Irnwkr put his neck out there and do a post of his overall theory. I am just saying..
 
Did it seem like an act of sorts, in your opinion?

I think he just allows himself to fall into an emotional sand trap of sorts, to avoid facing the reality of things. Is an "emo kid" acting? IMO he's not scheming or going about this with any malicious intent other than he does not want to incriminate himself, and at this point he's held onto whatever secrets he has for so long that he's not about to start revealing them now.
 
I agree that if there was a pound of pot, it probably wasn't personal. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been. In the Aaron Hernandez trial, it was testified that Aaron smoked up to an ounce a day. That seems extremely excessive, however, I have a close friend who smokes around 10-12 cigarette-size joints per day, due to medical reasons. Once a tolerance is built up, excessive consumption is possible. And I doubt either of the 2 guys I mentioned here are buying &#8539; ounce at a time. MOO

An ounce a day of weed for one person would be like smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day. I'm sure that covered his entourage as well.

A cigarette-sized joint is 1/2g, so 1 lb = 908 nice joints. 4-1/2 cartons if they were cigarettes!
 
No, TB's murder was highly organized. They went from pickup to ashes in hours. You don't make that kind of time bumbling around.

It's just that DM and MS made a number of big mistakes. They used the burner phone to call multiple sellers, and DM showed his tattoo. They texted regularly and backed up years' worth of texts and photos off their phones and onto DM's computers. They assumed Millard properties were a sanctuary LE couldn't or wouldn't cross into. They concentrated on (and failed at) being detected, but never accounted for being investigated.

I don't understand the argument that the fact that DM and MS weren't able to pull this crime off flawlessly somehow means that they didn't do it, because if they did it, they would have done absolutely everything perfectly.
So they calculatedly planned to leave witnesses who saw them from 10 feet away? They planned to shoot TB while in the truck? They calculated that an extra stop at the farm to get the incinerator was prudent? They planned to have an additional witness in IT, who sat in a truck with them?
This does not reek of careful planning to me, but hey, I'm picky like that

ETA - I NEVER said they didn't do it, that it would be done flawlessly if they did, or any of that other rubbish. I am pointing out that saying DM liked to plan carefully is a contradiction with how this ridiculous crime was carried out.
 
Ironworker seems to have a recurring strategy of asking very specific questions that cast doubt on posts that he has read.
It would interesting to have Irnwkr put his neck out there and do a post of his overall theory. I am just saying..
Hey, I'm no psychic

ETA - Am I not allowed to analyze details of this case too? Is that not what you and everyone else here does? Why the attack?
 
I was thinking about the blue backpack that smelled like weed. What would be the value of the drugs in it? Anyone hazard a guess ? I don't know the street value of marijuana, but if the backpack was stuffed full of it, like 10 pounds of the stuff, wouldn't that point to DM being a dealer? Way more drugs than for "personal use". Blows the image his defence team is trying to portray. JMO

10 pounds wouldn't just make him a dealer ... it would make him a serious dealer. Even one ounce could constitute a dealer.
 
Good point. Perhaps that is why so many of the witnesses are nervous and lying on the stand. They fear powerful drug dealers in the background associated with DM and MS.
IMO

To be honest, I would say that DM is the supplier not MS. DM was offering credits on future "grabs" which is slang for buying drugs. Also, LW said that Scotty was "sick" which is also code for needing drugs ... "I'm sick ... I need medicine". DM replied to that comment saying, "stay away I'm too hot".

I'd say MS and all the others would probably be scared of DM and his possible other supplier connections.



MOO
 
10 pounds wouldn't just make him a dealer ... it would make him a serious dealer. Even one ounce could constitute a dealer.

Legally 30g is the line between possession and trafficking charges I believe. (28g in 1 oz)
 
I think he just allows himself to fall into an emotional sand trap of sorts, to avoid facing the reality of things. Is an "emo kid" acting? IMO he's not scheming or going about this with any malicious intent other than he does not want to incriminate himself, and at this point he's held onto whatever secrets he has for so long that he's not about to start revealing them now.

The weakness that you perceive in Hagerman was more than like recognized by Millard and he would have exploited that vulnerability for all it was worth. Alex Piersen's radio interview with Scott Thompson characterized Hagerman as being weak and fragile...and prone to tears for most of his testimony. Could it be that with the stress and public shame of it all plus the fact that he has been so widely exposed during his courtroom appearance, Hagerman may well be without the personal resources to cope appropriately....he might genuinely be in need counselling of some sort to help him move on from this point.
 
I think that killing the owner of the truck they planned to steal, who happened to be TB, was always part of the plan. DM and MS had escalated from burglary to armed robbery/murder.
I think what wasn't in the plan was that TB would be shot inside the truck. I'm speculating that the original plan involved forcibly confining or somehow incapacitating TB until they arrived at a prearranged kill spot and for TB to be dragged out and shot. I'm sure TB realized almost immediately that his survival was in jeopardy and that he fought like heck to escape, which is probably when the gun was discharged. MOO
So, who was driving the Yukon? CN?
I hope the jury sees fit to put them all away for a very long time.

I agree. In my post I was trying to emphasize the idea that DM didn't report the murder shows he's guilty. If he was just out for a test drive and that happened, if he was an "average Joe" (is that how he put it?), he would have done the right thing. He didn't, so he's guilty IMO.
 
Hey, I'm no psychic

ETA - Am I not allowed to analyze details of this case too? Is that not what you and everyone else here does? Why the attack?

It is not my intention to attack anyone here.....
I am making a simple observation .....You frequently analyze quite thoroughly and often catch flaws. I merely suggested that it might be interesting to hear your theory in a broader sense because it is obvious you are following very closely.
 
Random thinking. Open to correction. I believe MS said DM had the gun he wanted (one with Zombie bullets). Maybe he still had his but wanted the dream gun since he knew he would not be getting paid. IMO
 
It would be better off to give MS cash, so he could leverage that into pot and build his own reputation. Getting pot from a new dealer on the side all of the sudden would deeply annoy MS's existing connection.

I think DM was the dealer because he had multiple residences under his full control. He didn't have to hide anything in the washer or fear raging women that might kick him out of the house.

If DM and AM smoked that 1 lb pot all day every day, it would take them months to consume it all. Not "personal use", IMO.

Just a joke here--maybe DM had the gun hiding in the wash machine, but wait, he had to wash his murse."
 
All due respect, I'm not sure where you stand on the whole premeditation thing, but in this post you basically argued against all the major points in the premeditation theories. You call DM a "rich guy" who foots the bill for all his buddies and you explain that higher-level drug dealers "usually have a weapon and burner phones". While you state that you don't believe he was a drug dealer, what would you classify it then? A drug broker? If he's moving a decent quantity from one dealer to another dealer, do you think this risk is taken at no charge? If so, why? Because he's a "nice guy"? If he was dealing, would your explanation above not somehow explain why he had a burner phone(s), at least 2 phones in his own name and a gun?
Just interested in your take on it after reading your post.

I'm not really working from an overarching theory, I am interested in puzzling out aspects of the situation that are maybe more nuanced.

You're right to point out that DM had a weapon, DM used a burner phone, DM obtained a large amount of drugs. But I think he was motivated to commit a one-off (or every 6 month) murder mission, as a "perfect crime", rather than live off a life of crime. He could have been a drug dealer if he wanted to, but I think firstly, it means constant exposure to the risk of arrest and also - it's a lot of work! You have to consistently manage relationships, supplies, keep financial accounts, build up and repair your networks. Here's an insightful article about the challenges of successfully dealing drugs, if anyone's interested: http://www.businessinsider.com/i-went-to-law-school-and-became-a-drug-dealer-2013-7

IMO one characteristic of DM is that he never sticks to anything for very long - he tries this, he tries that, he gets involved in some other scheme, then goes off travelling. He never ran a real chop shop, never had a real gang of thieves, never had a real property development company, etc. All those things require consistent, sustained, ongoing effort and attention.

I see DM as being more of a Leopold and Loeb type, they were two wealthy young men who committed a senseless murder just because they thought they were superior to others. Although in DM's case there might be more of a compulsive control issue, or a need to prove something to himself. Meanwhile, he was interested in dealing in real estate, safer than drugs and potentially as lucrative.

I think 1 lb of pot would be of much more interest to MS than DM. MS was already a dope dealer, who couldn't afford to buy that much. There's also the question of why MS was involved in the theft/murder, since it was DM who was going to get the truck/baja trip. So I speculate maybe MS fantasized about becoming a more important dealer, and DM was helping him do that (because MS was not competent to do it on his own).

JMO
 
So they calculatedly planned to leave witnesses who saw them from 10 feet away? They planned to shoot TB while in the truck? They calculated that an extra stop at the farm to get the incinerator was prudent? They planned to have an additional witness in IT, who sat in a truck with them?
This does not reek of careful planning to me, but hey, I'm picky like that

ETA - I NEVER said they didn't do it, that it would be done flawlessly if they did, or any of that other rubbish. I am pointing out that saying DM liked to plan carefully is a contradiction with how this ridiculous crime was carried out.

You're questioning why DM and MS would intend to make mistakes, and I think the answer is they were errors of omission (they just hadn't thought of that) rather than that they had everything fully planned out including the mistakes that they made.

You suggest any reasonable person might have planned things better. I suggest any reasonable person would not have gone beyond square one, let alone consider all the intricacies of the crime. If DM and MS had thought out everything that they needed to do to commit this crime and remain undetected, the complexity of the plan would have no doubt deterred them. It was because they were impulsive and unwilling to seriously consider all the consequences that they committed the crime, and in acting impulsively, they didn't get things perfect. They reacted as they went along, IMO, on this partially detailed plan of theirs.
 
Not to sound too much like a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else find it odd that CB was recently charged with drug possession with the intent to traffic. He too has ties to DM as DM borrowed his boat for a cruise with 1 or 2 women after which blood was found on board:

http://www.northernlife.ca/news/policeandCourt/2016/01/06-blodgett-drug-charges-sudbury.aspx

Well he is in a "lifestyle" business and I think there are a lot of drugs in hotel/food/tourism industry. People expect it as part of the vacation experience.
 
Random thinking. Open to correction. I believe MS said DM had the gun he wanted (one with Zombie bullets). Maybe he still had his but wanted the dream gun since he knew he would not be getting paid. IMO

And maybe that is exactly what he found when he opened the toolbox....:freakedout::freakedout::freakedout: Just what he needed at that point --an up close
and very personal encounter with a PPK that he recognized instantly. Wonder if DM also included the box of Zombie bullets in the toolbox ? All made that much worse for MS because he knows exactly when and where he last say the gun. He may have also unwrapped the gun and gone a little nuts thinking Millard or the n....s were sending him a threatening message--ouch, that's enough to make anyone go screaming out into the woods.;)
 
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