Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

[SnooperDuper]

Sorry, I don't know what OC means...

Organized Crime

 

[Yendys]

So they calculatedly planned to leave witnesses who saw them from 10 feet away? snip

Focusing on this point only. IMO DM phoned TB as they walked up the driveway thereby announcing their arrival so they would NOT have to go to the door and possibly be seen by witnesses. What they had not planned for was SB and the tenant (forgotten his initials) being outside on a smoke break. MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

Response to Claroon post # 136

I saw Brightii's response to this post....Count me crazy for 3. I didn't twig on the name but the figures in the stills you shared have been on my brain for days......Chck your pm in a bit

 

[brightii]

Organized Crime

Thank you! I didn't know what it meant either except perhaps Orange County as in the O.C. tv show. :facepalm:

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7h7 hours ago
molly hayes Retweeted Hamilton Spectator
The #Bosma trial will resume Monday, but here's where we left off yesterday w Dellen Millard's friend Matt Hagerman:

Hamilton Spectator ‏@TheSpec 10h10 hours ago
#BOSMA TRIAL: Witness breaks down as he recounts lies to police about toolbox #HamOnt http://bit.ly/1UMKMfV

Ann Brocklehurst ‏@AnnB03 7h7 hours ago
For the record, Tom Dungey accused Matt Hagerman of still not coming clean in his 4th, final police intvu: MH failed to mention Bobcat heist

 

[mimimic]

MH was and yes i believe he is done. This is a full time preoccupation! This was meant as a response for the user flip flop. Sorry i likely won't post too often if it turns out i suck at it!
lol

 

[napper505]

I was remembering a conversation from 2013 where it was commented about maybe playing real life Grand Theft Auto. I did a Google search and it seems some of the missions include collecting a bobcat, rocket launcher, lawn mower, and even flowers. What do you all think?

I was going to make a similar statement yesterday.. This sounds like a video game!.
I was thinking were texting each other during a gaming session.

Napper505

 

[Inspector_North]

Not to sound too much like a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else find it odd that CB was recently charged with drug possession with the intent to traffic. He too has ties to DM as DM borrowed his boat for a cruise with 1 or 2 women after which blood was found on board:

http://www.northernlife.ca/news/policeandCourt/2016/01/06-blodgett-drug-charges-sudbury.aspx

While it needed to be investigated, it was determined to be benign.
http://www.manitoulin.ca/2013/06/05...onal-media-police-in-assisting-millard-probe/

 

[brightii]

MH was and yes i believe he is done. This is a full time preoccupation! This was meant as a response for the user flip flop. Sorry i likely won't post too often if it turns out i suck at it!
lol

You're too hard on yourself. You're doing just fine. Stick with us and keep posting! :cheers: It does get easier. Lol

All MOO.

 

[napper505]

I need to look at the timeline. What day was all the texting? Where was his ROOMMATE Michalski? They may have said. Michalski lived with him so I guess he wanted someone offsite. I am not convinced it was DM doing the texting. IMO

AM was at hanger until 8:00pm May 6, 2013, Whereabouts afterwards unknown I think we will find out shortly from LE.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Considering today is the anniversary of Tori Stafford's kidnapping and brutal murder, I have had a hard time not thinking about her, and that case today. I live in Woodstock where she lived and it hit really really close to home. Woodstock isn't that big and it turned out I have friends and family that knew both Tori's parents AND her killers (and had no idea they were the monsters they were, until it all came out). It wasn't a secret (apparently) even before the news got ahold of it, that they were both big time into oxycontin. I personally didn't know either of them but after seeing their pics for the first time back then, realized I had actually seen them hanging around the known "druggy hangout" as it was called, which was in the same parking lot as the dvd rental store and the Tim Hortons I'd go to on Fridays. She (and I will not say her name) actually lived just right down the road from there, about 2 blocks.

Which brings me to the drug connection in the Bosma case. It's been said that it was known to those at the DM parties that the toolbox was for holding/transporting "narcotics" so of course my first thought is "oxy". Highly addictive and was still a HUGE thing at the time. Free flowing oxy may go a long way to explaining why so many were so eager to be around DM and his brand of "a good time". Just speculating of course that it was actually oxycontin, but it sure wouldn't surprise me if that's exactly what it was.

 

[Abitcountry]

Focusing on this point only. IMO DM phoned TB as they walked up the driveway thereby announcing their arrival so they would NOT have to go to the door and possibly be seen by witnesses. What they had not planned for was SB and the tenant (forgotten his initials) being outside on a smoke break. MOO

And bold bstrds that they were and are....they went ahead with their plans anyway.

 

[Melzack]

Just a thought but could it be that when the SUV left the hangar at 12:42 am, Millard went to drop off CN or someone else? I would think that if they went to pick up food there would be footage of them at a gas station or fast food restaurant.

 

[musicaljoke]

MH was and yes i believe he is done. This is a full time preoccupation! This was meant as a response for the user flip flop. Sorry i likely won't post too often if it turns out i suck at it!
lol

Hey, it's so nice that you posted. I'm no good at it either, but that doesn't stop me. Usually by the time I share my idea, eight other people have already said the same thing, much more eloquently, but then someone thanks my post, which makes me have a little smile, and it gives me courage to post again.

My thoughts are with the Bosma families, who are grieving this unspeakable loss.

 

[musicaljoke]

Considering today is the anniversary of Tori Stafford's kidnapping and brutal murder, I have had a hard time not thinking about her, and that case today. I live in Woodstock where she lived and it hit really really close to home. Woodstock isn't that big and it turned out I have friends and family that knew both Tori's parents AND her killers (and had no idea they were the monsters they were, until it all came out). It wasn't a secret (apparently) even before the news got ahold of it, that they were both big time into oxycontin. I personally didn't know either of them but after seeing their pics for the first time back then, realized I had actually seen them hanging around the known "druggy hangout" as it was called, which was in the same parking lot as the dvd rental store and the Tim Hortons I'd go to on Fridays. She (and I will not say her name) actually lived just right down the road from there, about 2 blocks.

Which brings me to the drug connection in the Bosma case. It's been said that it was known to those at the DM parties that the toolbox was for holding/transporting "narcotics" so of course my first thought is "oxy". Highly addictive and was still a HUGE thing at the time. Free flowing oxy may go a long way to explaining why so many were so eager to be around DM and his brand of "a good time". Just speculating of course that it was actually oxycontin, but it sure wouldn't surprise me if that's exactly what it was.

Hmmm ... hence the toolbox drop off at the pharmacy? Freudian connection? Taking the swag back?

"When Projna Mitra opened her pharmacy in the spring of 2012 on Kingsway Dr. in Oakville, she felt she was meeting an important need in the community. The surrounding area comprised about 2,000 families, but the nearest drugstore was at least two kilometres away. Mitra wanted these residents to have easy access to her store and to her expertise.
But her thinking changed on the morning of Sept. 27, 2012, when she looked up from the counter to find a gun levelled at her face."


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...eek_protection_against_rise_in_robberies.html

 

[HackD]

The other question is, why would a pot enthusiast want to smoke harsh, two-week-old, dried-out weed on a regular basis? Fresh is best.

'Fresh' pot is also hard to burn .. it needs to dry out a bit, age, 'cure'. To retail pot, it needs to have lost most of it's moisture - otherwise the dealer stands a good chance of ripping off the user by a gram or two, or more per 1/4 ounce. An apple slice in a baggy keeps it from drying out entirely.

A dealer wanting to stay in the game, doesn't want to see constant traffic to his door. That's a sure-fire way to get busted.. for trafficking.

I'm backing up Ironworker736's angle.

 

[SnooperDuper]

'Fresh' pot is also hard to burn .. it needs to dry out a bit, age, 'cure'. To retail pot, it needs to have lost most of it's moisture - otherwise the dealer stands a good chance of ripping off the user by a gram or two, or more per 1/4 ounce. An apple slice in a baggy keeps it from drying out entirely.

A dealer wanting to stay in the game, doesn't want to see constant traffic to his door. That's a sure-fire way to get busted.. for trafficking.

I'm backing up Ironworker736's angle.

You don't want people showing up, staying 5 minutes and leaving. If you have loads of people show up and they each stay for an hour or so, socializing and so on, you won't get the heat.

"Most of its moisture" is 10-15% moisture. No you don't want to buy wet pot that is even higher moisture content than that. There is a sweet spot for everything.

 

[brightii]

I'm wondering if MS was a known addict among his friends, including and especially DM who may have been his (and others) supplier, IMO? MS had the physical appearance of an addict, IMO, pre-arrest, thin, gaunt, dark circles under his eyes, lethargic looking, and as per his best-friend in 2013 observed, MS was often edgy, aggressive and poor tempered, another possible sign of addiction? I wonder too if MS had mental health issues and was using drugs and alcohol to mask or control his symptoms? I'm not talking about pot use here, though I have no doubt that it was part of the daily drug routine for MS, IMO.

Perhaps DM, knowing MS was drug addicted, tried to get him a supply via the toolbox so MS would not panic and start messing up things for DM in case of his absence after DM's inevitable arrest. I think on the evening of May 9th DM was very worried about what AJ had told CS no matter what details SS had shared with him, and DM knew that AJ could not be trusted. IMO DM knew for sure his arrest was imminent after the AJ fiasco. Therefore DM may have been trying to kill 2 birds with one stone: Lay the murder weapon on MS by way of DM's pals MH and AM, and also give MS drugs to ensure he was adequately medicated until DM could arrange for more drug deliveries from his jail cell. DM didn't anticipate all the do-not-contact orders, IMO. DM mainly wanted to keep MS from talking, IMO.

All just speculation in my long ramble there....sorry! It's just me thinking out loud again. Lol I don't know if it will even make sense to me an hour from now! :thinking:

All MOO

 

[deugirtni]

MH lied to police during 3 separate interviews, and says he didn't tell the truth until his 4th interview, at which time he says he came clean with the truth, even though during the 4th interview, he still made no mention to police of knowledge of previous thefts/missions involving DM. Even yesterday on the witness stand, he continues to insist that he was never once trying to protect DM, and that up until his first day on the witness stand the day before, it had never occurred to him that there might be anything besides drugs in the toolbox.

This, even though the very first thing out of his mouth when DM asked him to hold onto the toolbox for him because he was feeling heat, was to ask if there were guns inside. And even though immediately after that phonecall and before DM had even arrived to drop off the toolbox, MH had so much concern about it, that he went to discuss it with 2 other friends. He said the toolbox weighed 4-5lbs. (How much does a Waltham 380 weigh?) He was so scared of the toolbox that he wanted it gone from himself immediately. Once he listened to the car radio and heard that DM had been arrested in conjunction with the theft of a truck and a missing man, he pulled off the road and instead of delivering it to MS as had been AM's plan, they dropped the items at the nearest available place. He knew there was weed in the bag that DM had given AM because it smelled, but says it never occurred to him that he had been given something different than drugs.

As much as TD may seem like a badguy for making the poor boy cry on the stand, he seems to be the only one willing to call a spade a spade, and question obvious lies.

Whatever lies were told, this situation destroyed the friendship between AM and MH, they have not spoken since May 2013. I can't wait to hear what AM says on the stand, if he is still protecting his friend, what lies were told that broke up the friendship with MH, how DM reacts to AM's presence.

from A Carter's Live Blog:

Hagerman says, adding that he considered Michalski a good friend. He hasn't spoken to Michalski since May 2013. "We had come to an agreement related to this case, and lies had been said," Hagerman says.

 

[swedie]

In response to Ironwork's post #18. Copy and pasted highlighted sections from my post, in which you quoted within my post. Respectfully...to make it more simplified and easier to respond to your questions, please use the appropriate functions when quoting others posts. TIA.

The "portions" taking out of context. HTH.
Me: remaining loyal to dm.
Ironworker: why would bd be "remaining loyal to dm"? He only met him briefly a few times and testified that he didn't like him. Makes no sense imo

Me: jar of pellets on a table),
Ironworker: what does a jar of pellets have to do with a real handgun? Are you suggesting tb was murdered with a pellet gun?

Me: I'm banking on mm to blow this case wide open with truths and clarity.
Ironworker: so far, you refuse to believe a single word anyone involved with dm or ms has said in court. Why on earth do you expect mm to be the one you will believe?

Correct, I should have only implied HM as being loyal to DM.
Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 7
"Lets go through your statements to show how many lies you tell and how much you protect Mr. Millard," Dungey says.

Why would you assume that is what I was meaning? Did I indicate anywhere in my post TB was shot with a pellet gun...or anyone else for that matter? If you read my full statement, MH claimed on the stand, "I never once in my life ever thought Dellen to be serious with guns." We've seen evidence of a gun(s) in DM's house, pellets (no indication these are for a pellet gun is there? Some shotgun ammo contain pellet/shots. Who's to say DM and/or buddies didn't make ammo :dunno, an evidence photo found on DM's computer where he is obviously holding a gun. My point being, I don't believe MH when he said never once in my life ever thought Dellen to be serious with guns. Also, IIRC there was a video of DM and buddies "goofing off" with some sort of long barrel gun. One of DM's friends had photos on their facebook of them aiming rifles. I have no idea if those are still out there and who all was in the photos, but I do remember seeing them from very early on in this case, and people identified them as DM and friends. One buddy still has a photo of him holding what appears to be a gun to the side of his head, posted a few years ago. MH testified saying he had no idea there was a gun in the toolbox. MH's text back to DM asking him if guns were in the toolbox, so you believe that was just his "sense of humour" coming out? I don't think it had anything to do with his sense of humour and either doesn't Dungey, and that was why he kept pushing MH. Dungey wants the jurors to know MH knew there was a gun in the toolbox, that he lied numerous times throughout all his statements to LE, and he continues to lie to cover for himself and DM....but that's just our opinions.

Wayne Millard's shotgun death in November 2012 was originally deemed a suicide. http://m.therecord.com/news-story/6...en-millard-hires-hamilton-lawyer-peter-boushy

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes Apr 7
"Never thought in my wildest dreams DM would own a gun. I would never have expected him to pass it to me of all people," he says.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 6
Hagerman says the "hah full of guns" text was a joke, because the situation felt so weird

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 7
Millard responds, a tool box. Hagerman responded "ha ha full of guns?" Hagerman says he was trying to be funny, wasn't expecting guns

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 7
Millard responded "..." and "2." "I never once in my life ever thought Dellen to be serious with guns," Hagerman says.
After repeatedly trying to get MH to admit he knew there was a gun in the toolbox.
Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 7
"Sir, that's just nonsense and you know that's nonsense." Dungey says.

Yeah...very ironic don'tcha think?!
Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 7
Hagerman says he made a joke in a text that guns were in the toolbox. "It's become a very ironic joke now," Hagerman says

Ironworker: "So far, you refuse to believe a single word anyone involved with dm or ms has said in court. Why on earth do you expect mm to be the one you will believe?"

An exaggeration on your part. I suspect MM has the least of any of the friends to lose. She likely knew both the accused well enough to know what was going on. Although it would be considered as hearsay, no doubt MS confided in her much about DM and his other friends and what they were all up to over the past while, prior to TB's murder. Guns, thefts, drugs, money exchanging hands, being around the hangar working, seeing things. Why wouldn't she tell all and the truth if she wasn't involved in serious, illegal activities like all the other friends including CN? ALL MOO.