Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

[matou]

Smich's sister and brother in law work for Google in California, I am pretty sure. Even if his family is not publically supporting him in any way it may be possible that they have made it possible for him to have a decent lawyer. Public knowledge, I am not connected to the case or family.sorry if that sort of info is not permitted here. I came across it after a few minutes of research into smich. Longtime lurker, first time poster. This whole case is so horribly baffling and heartbreaking, and I want to thank you all for your comments and insights throughout the trial so far.

ETA I was replying to a previous commentor who was wondering how smich is managing to afford TD

Welcome Catherinem! :welcome4::welcome4:

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder now if MB still thinks her precious son DM is innocent as she previously stated. Funny she could say that even then, handling a small claims court settlement for him.

I've been thinking about that also. How much of what MB is reading in the news is coming as a surprise to her, or did DM come completely clean with her ahead of time. Does she believe his story now? Would love to know how much, if any, of this stuff she knew as it was going on, ie the thefts, the drug parties, etc.

 

[brightii]

What gets me on the drugs is MS has absolutely nothing to show for it, if he is dealing big time. He should at least have a tricked-out bike or something. He shouldn't be wearing the same clothes all the time (and isn't that a bit of a heat score, anyway?) He's living at his momma's, eating her food, and has no car expenses. His pot habit is probably only in the mid-hundreds per month, if he is smoking 2g a day like his buddy, so it's not like his habit would be eating up everything. Where's his stuff? He had no cash when it was time to seek a lawyer and it seems he tried to sell stuff he got off DM to make the money he needed. I just don't think he is a big-time anything.That's why it struck such a chord with me to hear there was a knapsac full of weed coming from DM.

I don't think we fully understand MS's situation. He appears to be more a user than a dealer to me, IMO. He's not working and hadn't been for some time so he likely didn't collect EI. He lived at home so while possible, it too is unlikely he was receiving general welfare benefits, IMO. He seemed to be dependent upon his family for his food and shelter, and he may have also relied upon friends for help, and God help him, DM, IMO. As Just4TB noted below, MS was also a smoker and depending on how much he smoked that's a $10 to $20 a day habit, and possibly more if he was a chain smoker, IMO. Then he had to have his supply of drugs and I have no idea the cost, but he likely got some weed and sold some enough to keep himself supplied and no more. I don't think he was mentally stable, IMO, at that time and I think he was just existing daily and trying to feed his habits, IMO. He was likely quite dependant on DM and MM to get his perceived needs met, IMO. No wonder he wore the same clothes all the time - he was broke, and broken in more ways than one, IMO.

This is just my opinion based upon what I've observed and read about MS. Living is not easy for anyone, but it is beyond a hardship for those without real earned income, and especially harder for those with mental health issues, drug and/or alcohol problems added to the picture, if the person lacks skills or help to change the situation for the better, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Catherinem]

Welcome Catherinem! :welcome4::welcome4:

Thank you!

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do we have any clues about why DM had lost his license? I know it's been asked before, but not sure if I've missed any discussion...

I was wondering that also.. because the media had noted MS's previous convictions, including DUI. That isn't the only reason to have a license suspended, but surprised that hasn't been mentioned in the news.

Colin ButlerVerified account ‏@ColinButlerCBC Apr 6
Hagerman now talking about a period in October 2012 when Hagerman drove for Millard because his license expired #Bosma

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do we have any clues about why DM had lost his license? I know it's been asked before, but not sure if I've missed any discussion...

I don't think we fully understand MS's situation. He appears to be more a user than a dealer to me, IMO. He's not working and hadn't been for some time so he likely didn't collect EI. He lived at home so while possible, it too is unlikely he was receiving general welfare benefits, IMO. He seemed to be dependent upon his family for his food and shelter, and he may have also relied upon friends for help, and God help him, DM, IMO. As Just4TB noted below, MS was also a smoker and depending on how much he smoked that's a $10 to $20 a day habit, and possibly more if he was a chain smoker, IMO. Then he had to have his supply of drugs and I have no idea the cost, but he likely got some weed and sold some enough to keep himself supplied and no more. I don't think he was mentally stable, IMO, at that time and I think he was just existing daily and trying to feed his habits, IMO. He was likely quite dependant on DM and MM to get his perceived needs met, IMO. No wonder he wore the same clothes all the time - he was broke, and broken in more ways than one, IMO.

This is just my opinion based upon what I've observed and read about MS. Living is not easy for anyone, but it is beyond a hardship for those without real earned income, and especially harder for those with mental health issues, drug and/or alcohol problems added to the picture, if the person lacks skills or help to change the situation for the better, IMO.

All MOO.

He strikes me as someone who just never got any traction in life, after his early encounters with the law. Having a record makes it harder to become employed, and MS had that before he was out of high school.

He's in a position where if he were to look for work, it would be unskilled labourer jobs. Pretty grim in the face of a sister that's living the life in CA and a friend who can afford anything life has to offer.

I don't think he worked any harder than he needed to subsist.

Unfortunately I suspect most of his relationships were related to shared substance issues. That is, drugs were the web that held this group together.

 

[Catherinem]

One thing that I was hoping someone here might be able to answer: when the trial is finished, will complete transcripts, including the closed court sessions, be available to the public in any form? I feel like there is a huge amount of info in this case that we are not permitted to see. . . Do publication bans ever extend beyond a verdict?

 

[redheart]

Colin ButlerVerified account ‏@ColinButlerCBC Apr 6
Hagerman now talking about a period in October 2012 when Hagerman drove for Millard because his license expired #Bosma

Isn't DM's birthday in August? Seems odd that he would not have renewed his license several months later. Did anybody else tweet the word "expired"? I didn't see it, if they did.

ETA: DM's birthday is August 30

 

[matou]

Isn't DM's birthday in August? Seems odd that he would not have renewed his license several months later. Did anybody else tweet the word "expired"? I didn't see it, if they did.

ETA: DM's birthday is August 30

I remember the word "suspended"

 

[SnooperDuper]

One thing that I was hoping someone here might be able to answer: when the trial is finished, will complete transcripts, including the closed court sessions, be available to the public in any form? I feel like there is a huge amount of info in this case that we are not permitted to see. . . Do publication bans ever extend beyond a verdict?

Yes, there will be articles in the newspapers that tell what was under publication ban and what was discussed during all of those legal arguments. Transcripts will be available, but at a cost, and I expect a pretty good one too given the length of the trial. As well at least one journalist http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/ is writing a book.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I remember the word "suspended"

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont Apr 6
October 2012. He drove for Millard for a couple of weeks because his license was suspended.

 

[HackD]

One thing that I was hoping someone here might be able to answer: when the trial is finished, will complete transcripts, including the closed court sessions, be available to the public in any form? I feel like there is a huge amount of info in this case that we are not permitted to see. . . Do publication bans ever extend beyond a verdict?

I don't know the real answer to this, but i imagine any theoretical post-trial disclosure will be limited/hobbled by the issue of the two trials up-coming. There likely is a certain degree of evidential interweaving going on between the three cases that DM, and the two that MS is implicated in.. as well as any shared witnesses in this apparent culture of questionable activities.

 

[Errrr]

What gets me on the drugs is MS has absolutely nothing to show for it, if he is dealing big time. He should at least have a tricked-out bike or something. He shouldn't be wearing the same clothes all the time (and isn't that a bit of a heat score, anyway?) He's living at his momma's, eating her food, and has no car expenses. His pot habit is probably only in the mid-hundreds per month, if he is smoking 2g a day like his buddy, so it's not like his habit would be eating up everything. Where's his stuff? He had no cash when it was time to seek a lawyer and it seems he tried to sell stuff he got off DM to make the money he needed. I just don't think he is a big-time anything.That's why it struck such a chord with me to hear there was a knapsac full of weed coming from DM.

Even Dougie Ford lived with his momma. Living in parents basement is typical. Most dealers aren't rich.

 

[Errrr]

I've been thinking about that also. How much of what MB is reading in the news is coming as a surprise to her, or did DM come completely clean with her ahead of time. Does she believe his story now? Would love to know how much, if any, of this stuff she knew as it was going on, ie the thefts, the drug parties, etc.

I seriously doubt DM has come clean with anyone, including his lawyer. If he did, the lawyer would be looking at damage control. I think DM is expecting his lawyer to get him off Scott free. I think he still has that thing where his heart should be, set on proving he was set up. MYO

 

[StevieL]

Colin ButlerVerified account ‏@ColinButlerCBC Apr 6
Hagerman now talking about a period in October 2012 when Hagerman drove for Millard because his license expired #Bosma

Does anyone else find it odd that both DM and MS, who were involved in theft, illegal drugs, murder and who knows what else, would choose to obey this law? Really, an expired driver's license! A guy who doesn't feel the need to follow any normal societal rules, won't drive without a license. Strange IMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I don't know the real answer to this, but i imagine any theoretical post-trial disclosure will be limited/hobbled by the issue of the two trials up-coming. There likely is a certain degree of evidential interweaving going on between the three cases that DM, and the two that MS is implicated in.. as well as any shared witnesses in this apparent culture of questionable activities.

Remember how LE prevented uncle RB from being followed by journalists out of the courtroom? One journalist commented on how unusual that was. I figured that LE wanted RB unmolested because his testimony might figure in the LB trial, but who knows.

 

[HackD]

Does anyone else find it odd that both DM and MS, who were involved in theft, illegal drugs, murder and who knows what else, would choose to obey this law? Really, an expired driver's license! A guy who doesn't feel the need to follow any normal societal rules, won't drive without a license. Strange IMO

October 2012 .. Wayne Millard would still have been alive. It's quite possible that DM's "personal" vehicles were covered under an umbrella policy covering Millardair .. if Wayne had any say in it, i'm fairly sure he'd be adamant in not seeing insurance coverage being pulled, due to another potential DM eff-up .. considering DM was already clogging up the hanger with an apparent chop-shop/hobby-shop that Wayne would have been having issues with already. Psychotic, or not.. DM might have respected at least that much, at least while WM was still alive.. If WM tells DM to get someone to chauffeur him around or lose insurance coverage, DM might actually have bought into it as someone subservient doing his driving-bidding, IMHO.

 

[billandrew]

I've been thinking about DM's activities on the evening of May 9:

• Around 4pm, DM is driving the red Dodge Ram around the farm. He texts Schlatman (at hangar) "throw 2 boxes of satin white spray paint in the Yukon plz", implying the Yukon was at the hangar.
• Just before 7pm, he shows up at the hangar driving the red Dodge Ram, and by 8:38pm he departs with the big trailer (TB's truck inside) in tow.
• From there, he drops off Smich, picks up Noudga, drives to Kleinburg, ditches the trailer in his mom's driveway, etc.
• By then it's almost midnight, and the cell activity is vague. But it's assumed that DM/CN drove to the farm and moved the incinerator, etc.
• At 4am, DM meets MH to drop off the toolbox. MH stated that DM had the dark blue Yukon.

We can infer that DM and CN stopped by the hangar that night to pick up the Yukon before meeting Hagerman. Assuming Schlatman followed his orders, there would have been 2 boxes of white spray paint inside, but when DM was arrested the next day, these boxes were not in the Yukon, as far as we know. This just leads to more questions:

• What was the paint even going to be used for?
• Did the plan for the spray paint got scrapped, and DM just left the boxes at the hangar?
• Did the paint get transported somewhere?
• Did some painting take place behind Riverside, and any mess created by it had to be washed off the driveway?
• If DM planned to repaint TB's truck himself, why was it important to have SS pre-load the paint into the Yukon for him?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I've been thinking about DM's activities on the evening of May 9:

• Around 4pm, DM is driving the red Dodge Ram around the farm. He texts Schlatman (at hangar) "throw 2 boxes of satin white spray paint in the Yukon plz", implying the Yukon was at the hangar.
• Just before 7pm, he shows up at the hangar driving the red Dodge Ram, and by 8:38pm he departs with the big trailer (TB's truck inside) in tow.
• From there, he drops off Smich, picks up Noudga, drives to Kleinburg, ditches the trailer in his mom's driveway, etc.
• By then it's almost midnight, and the cell activity is vague. But it's assumed that DM/CN drove to the farm and moved the incinerator, etc.
• At 4am, DM meets MH to drop off the toolbox. MH stated that DM had the dark blue Yukon.

We can infer that DM and CN stopped by the hangar that night to pick up the Yukon before meeting Hagerman. Assuming Schlatman followed his orders, there would have been 2 boxes of white spray paint inside, but when DM was arrested the next day, these boxes were not in the Yukon, as far as we know. This just leads to more questions:

• What was the paint even going to be used for?
• Did the plan for the spray paint got scrapped, and DM just left the boxes at the hangar?
• Did the paint get transported somewhere?
• Did some painting take place behind Riverside, and any mess created by it had to be washed off the driveway?
• If DM planned to repaint TB's truck himself, why was it important to have SS pre-load the paint into the Yukon for him?

I'm trying to think of things that are white and I think of the big propane tank on the incinerator. Perhaps they intended to paint over blood?

 

[HackD]

I've been thinking about DM's activities on the evening of May 9:

• Around 4pm, DM is driving the red Dodge Ram around the farm. He texts Schlatman (at hangar) "throw 2 boxes of satin white spray paint in the Yukon plz", implying the Yukon was at the hangar.
• Just before 7pm, he shows up at the hangar driving the red Dodge Ram, and by 8:38pm he departs with the big trailer (TB's truck inside) in tow.
• From there, he drops off Smich, picks up Noudga, drives to Kleinburg, ditches the trailer in his mom's driveway, etc.
• By then it's almost midnight, and the cell activity is vague. But it's assumed that DM/CN drove to the farm and moved the incinerator, etc.
• At 4am, DM meets MH to drop off the toolbox. MH stated that DM had the dark blue Yukon.

We can infer that DM and CN stopped by the hangar that night to pick up the Yukon before meeting Hagerman. Assuming Schlatman followed his orders, there would have been 2 boxes of white spray paint inside, but when DM was arrested the next day, these boxes were not in the Yukon, as far as we know. This just leads to more questions:

• What was the paint even going to be used for?
• Did the plan for the spray paint got scrapped, and DM just left the boxes at the hangar?
• Did the paint get transported somewhere?
• Did some painting take place behind Riverside, and any mess created by it had to be washed off the driveway?
• If DM planned to repaint TB's truck himself, why was it important to have SS pre-load the paint into the Yukon for him?

My thoughts on the spray-paint issue - he simply ran out of time. DM was likely aware of the blood evidence inside the cab of TM's Ram. He'd already partially stripped out and burnt a good portion of the interior. It also sounds like an attempt was made to power-wash the interior and exterior of the vehicle, in an effort to remove residue - evidence being the amount of cast-off dilute blood droplets on the under-carriage of the vehicle that he apparently wasn't aware of. My thought is that he intended to entirely strip out the Ram interior, and repaint the cabin sheet metal entirely satin white from floor to ceiling at some point before sending it off to his painter.

Then AJ happens, and the cops showed up at the hanger soon after the truck was moved... **** went downhill for DM fast.