Boulder police chief exonerates Fleet and Priscilla White in death of JonBenet Ramsey

[DeDee]

Question: Assuming FW is telling the truth in his disposition, was JB's body in the room when he looked in? He says it it is quite dark but I question if the white blanket on the floor would have reflected enough light to be visible, and if it was visible he should have seen it. I mean a white blanket in the shape of a body on the floor of a darkened room would have gotten my attention. My theory is that the body was NOT in the room at the time FW looked but was placed there later by JR during the two hours he was not in LA's sight. If so there was nothing for FW to see. What allowed JR to be so "cordial" with LE at first on the morning of 12-26 was the knowledge that JB's body so well hidden that LE was not going to find her no matter where they searched. This may indicate that he/they still had plans of secretly removing her body from the house. However later things changed and JR realized LE was not going to go away, and then he realized a change of plans had to be made. At this time he removed JB from where she was at to the basement room. JR was reportedly much more nervous and anxious (and less "cordial") when he knew the body had been placed where LE could get to it.

As for why FW looked in the room, I can see someone being very thorough and just wanting to check everywhere for her, even places where it was illogical for her to be. I can myself doing that. IMO there is nothing suspect about what FW says at this point in his disposition.

FW was a bit taller than 6'. Most likely, his body blocked any ambient light from outside the room when he opened the door. However, when he "leaned in" and took one step, wouldn't that be at least 10"?


From PMPT p. 296

"However, there was a possible explanation. JonBenet's body was inside the room to the left. It might not have been visible to White standing just at the threshold and blocking reflected light from entering the room. Yet if someone stood 5 to 10 inches inside the threshold, more reflected light would have entered. Then, looking directly to the left, the person might have seen the white blanket in the dark room. Maybe there was enough reflected light from just outside the door."


From The Bonita Papers:

The team now concentrated on the wine cellar. Two light switches were located for this room one on the inside east wall 5 feet above the floor level, and the other on the west wall 2 feet above the floor level and 2 feet inside the doorway.


Due to the pattern of livor mortis, it is highly unlikely that her body was moved once it was placed, soon after death, into the concrete cellar nor was the blanket later slid any closer to the door entry. We know the mold on the floor would show drag marks or the underside of the white blanket would display indications of movement along that nasty floor.


Only John can answer why he was cordial to the arriving police officers. Perhaps he desperately needed their assistance. JR was supposed to be with his lovely children celebrating Christmas in MI followed by a cruise.

Perhaps he became increasingly irritated that the abrupt change in plans altered everything about his life.

Perhaps JR became less cordial when he discovered his daughter's body in the concrete room and suspected that PR had placed her there.

I have difficulty in understanding the principle behind FWs willingness to spend thirty days in lock up. How does he adequately explain to Daphne that he was once handcuffed, arrested and jailed for disobeying a judge's court order?


How was the body left in that concrete room without the killer leaving footprints?

Mama2JML has begun a study of the footprints in the cellar on the IDI thread.

 

[wonderllama]

Yes and that is my point. If you believe the DNA does not match FW so he is not the killer, You have to say the same about the R's. It is the same measure.

No evidence indicating the presence of FW or his wife were found in the basement.

Evidence indicating the presence of the various members of the Ramsey family WAS found in the basement.

Bit of a difference there.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No evidence indicating the presence of FW or his wife were found in the basement.

Evidence indicating the presence of the various members of the Ramsey family WAS found in the basement.

Bit of a difference there.

Well know because the Ramsey's lived in the house and their fibers, and fingerprints would belong there. That is normal. My fibers are all over my house. My garage.

 

[wonderllama]

Well know because the Ramsey's lived in the house and their fibers, and fingerprints would belong there. That is normal. My fibers are all over my house. My garage.

Correct, so you can't be discounted of anything that happens in your house.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Correct, so you can't be discounted of anything that happens in your house.

I can if there is a body found with foreign dna that does not belong in my house..

 

[chlban]

I can if there is a body found with foreign dna that does not belong in my house..

Right, I am sure there is not a shred of foreign touch DNA in your house. Assuming you live in a laboratory.

 

[wonderllama]

I can if there is a body found with foreign dna that does not belong in my house..

That, I suggest, is a good defence line for you to use, but not entirely accurate.

 

[bettybaby00]

That, I suggest, is a good defence line for you to use.

But that's what the cadre of hired lawyers are paid to do.

 

[Venom]

Yes and that is my point. If you believe the DNA does not match FW so he is not the killer, You have to say the same about the R's. It is the same measure.

I was being sarcastic.

Im glad that FW helped get justice.. Can you tell us how???

I think you may have me misquoted. I never said helped, I said he tried to get justice.
How? It's already been stated in these last posts.

 

[Anti-K]

The evidence tells us that the body was not moved after White looked in the windowless room. He just didn’t see it.

Cognitive dissonance explains why some people, White, for example, might have thought or acting as if jbr could have still been in the house somewhere, hiding or whatever despite the fact that there was a ransom note to show that she had been kidnapped.

It works like this: on some level you understand that she’s been kidnapped, but there’s still some part of you that goes, wait, what…? Maybe you search a bit, but why? Because the thought – the knowledge – that she’s been kidnapped is disruptive, it is surreal and you have to do what you can to return to what you know as real. So, you look around a bit, you call her name, you know she won’t answer and you know that you won’t find her but you do these things anyway.

I believe that White simply did not see jbr when he looked into the windowless room. Even if we set aside things such as lighting conditions, light source relative to White’s position (could illuminate or shadow his view), his direction of glance relative to victim’s position, etc. we still have it that White was “psychologically” primed to see nothing – not just because of the ransom note, but because the door was latched from the outside. White could have stared right at the victim without it registering.
...

AK

 

[Anyhoo]

The evidence tells us that the body was not moved after White looked in the windowless room. He just didn’t see it.

Cognitive dissonance explains why some people, White, for example, might have thought or acting as if jbr could have still been in the house somewhere, hiding or whatever despite the fact that there was a ransom note to show that she had been kidnapped.

It works like this: on some level you understand that she’s been kidnapped, but there’s still some part of you that goes, wait, what…? Maybe you search a bit, but why? Because the thought – the knowledge – that she’s been kidnapped is disruptive, it is surreal and you have to do what you can to return to what you know as real. So, you look around a bit, you call her name, you know she won’t answer and you know that you won’t find her but you do these things anyway.

I believe that White simply did not see jbr when he looked into the windowless room. Even if we set aside things such as lighting conditions, light source relative to White’s position (could illuminate or shadow his view), his direction of glance relative to victim’s position, etc. we still have it that White was “psychologically” primed to see nothing – not just because of the ransom note, but because the door was latched from the outside. White could have stared right at the victim without it registering.
...

AK

I agree this could be the case concerning FW. See, who says RDI and IDI can't agree on anything. But our opinions are going to diverge radically when the conversation turns to JR.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Right, I am sure there is not a shred of foreign touch DNA in your house. Assuming you live in a laboratory.

The issue is not if it was found in house, The issue is that it was found on her body. And as far as I know not found ANYWHERE else in the house. That pinpoints that person to the body and the basement. IMO.

That is specific transfer IMO.

 

[chlban]

The issue is not if it was found in house, The issue is that it was found on her body. And as far as I know not found ANYWHERE else in the house. That pinpoints that person to the body and the basement. IMO.

That is specific transfer IMO.

This is why I don't generally engage with IDI. If you refuse to believe how touch DNA works, that is your perogative.

Back the the subject of the thread. I don't believe there is anything sinister in Fleet White's failure to see the body and I don't think JR was stupid enough to move the body after the police arrived. I think she was there, but FW did not step far enough into the room to see her. Additionally, movement of the body at that time is not supported by the evidence.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This is why I don't generally engage with IDI. If you refuse to believe how touch DNA works, that is your perogative.

Back the the subject of the thread. I don't believe there is anything sinister in Fleet White's failure to see the body and I don't think JR was stupid enough to move the body after the police arrived. I think she was there, but FW did not step far enough into the room to see her. Additionally, movement of the body at that time is not supported by the evidence.

I do know how Touch DNA works and I do know that it has been used to solve cases. In this case we have DNA and then Touch DNA in another place. And they match. So it is not just the touch DNA that matters, but the DNA as a whole.

I think for many IDI, Myself included until there is a match that DNA, That question is just way too big to get past when looking at who could have and did commit this crime.

JMO

 

[Tawny]

You simply CANNOT match every single tDNA particle in the world. It is impossible. And to completely dismiss a case because you CAN'T source the DNA is irresponsible. As has been explained to the point of turning people green, tDNA can come from ANYWHERE.

It. does. not. exonerate. anybody.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It is not just touch DNA. It does match someone. Who that is is the killer. In any other case that would be true.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[2 percent]

The issue is not if it was found in house, The issue is that it was found on her body. And as far as I know not found ANYWHERE else in the house. That pinpoints that person to the body and the basement. IMO.

That is specific transfer IMO.

But with touch DNA, specifically, there should be more. This isn't DNA from a blood or semen blotch. These are skin cells that are as much from casual transfer as not.
Unless your theory is that the intruder was nowhere in the house but the basement? And touched nothing else but a few somewhat interesting places while not touching others?

I think Fleet just didn't see her. No drama.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But with touch DNA, specifically, there should be more. This isn't DNA from a blood or semen blotch. These are skin cells that are as much from casual transfer as not.
Unless your theory is that the intruder was nowhere in the house but the basement? And touched nothing else but a few somewhat interesting places while not touching others?

I think Fleet just didn't see her. No drama.

No not necessarily. All they needed was gloves. They could have taken them off at some point.

This case has DNA from someone that is not a Ramsey. It is more than one place on the body.
It needs to be sourced. The DNA tells the story.

I will say it again, if this was any other case that DNA would matter. WE have cases that are solved with TDNA but in this case we have DNA and TDNA, Not just skin cells. That tells the story. Until that is sourced the R's are off the table for me.. JMO

 

[Tawny]

It wasn't even on her body, it was on her clothing.

Your theory is far fetched. They wore gloves the WHOLE time except to touch just this one tiny minuscule portion of JBR's clothing? Hmm.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It wasn't even on her body, it was on her clothing.

Your theory is far fetched. They wore gloves the WHOLE time except to touch just this one tiny minuscule portion of JBR's clothing? Hmm.

Being that she was cleaned up, or wiped down, there could have been more that was lost. That is not far fetched. It is based on the fact that DNA is present. There is DNA that does not belong to anyone in the R family. That is a fact. Where it came from is anyone's guess at this point but it is not a theory or a story or a guess. The DNA is fact.

JMO.