So did I. Just making a point.
Boulder Police meet with JonBenet Ramsey's now adult brother
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So did I. Just making a point.
In my opinion, the Anthony case is a very good indicator of what would have happened in this case if all the elements had been reversed.
SD, read my last sentence.
I wish I had before I opened my big keyboard!
No problem, SD. It's just because your mind is so quick!
It is somewhere in the back my mind that it was Lou Smit who caused this confusion, either accidentally or on purpose.
I vaguely recall that Smit said something about fibers in a brown paper bag (which probably was an evidence bag) collected from JonBenet's bed, coming from the hemp rope, which then miraculously morphed into 'fibers from the cord which had been around her neck'.
I think it was Koldkase who on Forums for Justice posted a while ago what Smit said on that. I'll see if I can find it.
Otg, I just dug up an older post of mine at Forums for Justice dealing with this issue:
I also found Koldkase's comment where she mentions that Carnes never saw the evidence case file, and that Smit presented false info as evidence. See KK's post # 65 here:[rashomon]:
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4775&page=6&highlight=evidence+pretense (post # 64)
From Carnes' ruling. (bolding mine)
Quote:
"A ROPE was found inside a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom of defendants' home, neither of which belonged to defendants.(SMF 181; PSMF 181.) Small pieces of the brown sack material were found in the "vacuuming" of JonBenet's bed and in the body bag that was used to transport her body.(SMF 181; PSMF 181.)" (end quote)
Quote:
"The above evidence arguably suggests that whoever tied up JonBenet used some items brought from outside the home to do so. In addition, other fiber evidence supports an inference that some of these items from outside the home were, at one time, in the second floor area near JonBenet's bedroom. That is; fibers consistent with those of the cord used to make the slip knots and garrote were found on JonBenet's bed.(SMF 168; PSMF 168.)" (end quote)
"In the guest bedroom = "in the second floor area near JonBenet's room".
Both times, Carnes obviously refers to the (hemp) rope found in JAR's bedroom.
One gets the impression that Carnes does not even know what material the actual ligature was made of (nylon).
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4775&page=6&highlight=evidence+pretense
otg
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Thanks, rashomon. I'll have to read more of that thread (and maybe more) this weekend. Before I signed up for this forum, I tried at FFJ because I wanted to post that stuff I had done with the 911 call. Apparently, they are no longer taking new registrations (but they still have active threads?). Must be an exclusive club? When I found this forum, I thought it was the infamous place from back when I was active before (jammie/murphy's forum?), the one with two b's.
The problem for us now is the sheer volume of misinformation that is out there. That's why I thought it would be good to take a look at what we know for sure (the pictures of ligatures, injuries, AR, 911-tape, etc.) only. The reported double-knot, fiber evidence we haven't seen, he-said/she-said... that could all be wrong. The author of the RN -- individual opinions. Origin of the over-sized panties -- speculation and rumor. There are many red herrings out there -- some just wrong, some deliberately placed.
Personally, I don't see it as such a mystery. I just don't understand why so many have a hard time seeing what happened.
Gotta go back to work. Hopefully I'l get lots of time this weekend.
.
One of the things that is very aggravating is that you read something like "rope fibers from a brown paper bag which does not belong to the defendants". Says WHO? The DEFENDANTS? Statements like that are wildly speculative and not based in fact. Just because the Rs said it does that make it true? Of course not. Look what they said about not owning the bowl SEEN in family photos from their party three days earlier. And the box of tissues! She said she didn't buy them. Who was following Patsy around the supermarket in the previous weeks to make sure she didn't buy those tissues?
See how ridiculous this is? Until an outside source for ALL the items the Rs said they did not buy/own is proven, common household items found in a home must be assumed to belong to the homeowners.
To prove this kind of thing, forensics would have to identify fibers and other evidence on these items that can be definitely linked to another person, their home or car.
They shouldn't be able to say these common household things don't belong to the defendants unless they can show who they DO belong to.
If someone found something that was unusual and not part of normal household items, then that is a different story. But NOTHING here was unusual. Patsy also SAID that BR was always "playing with a rope trying to make a boat or something" (her words).
See how ridiculous this is? Until an outside source for ALL the items the Rs said they did not buy/own is proven, common household items found in a home must be assumed to belong to the homeowners.
To prove this kind of thing, forensics would have to identify fibers and other evidence on these items that can be definitely linked to another person, their home or car.
They shouldn't be able to say these common household things don't belong to the defendants unless they can show who they DO belong to.
If someone found something that was unusual and not part of normal household items, then that is a different story. But NOTHING here was unusual. Patsy also SAID that BR was always "playing with a rope trying to make a boat or something" (her words).
Heyya DeeDee.
A stick is used as a practice 'rod' for making knots.
Odd that?, PR's sentence would make sense, but for the omission of the word knot, ie 'boat knot'
ty for the reference link.
[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=164967&postcount=64"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Evidence Vs Pretense[/ame]
A ROPE was found inside a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom of defendants' home, neither of which belonged to defendants.(SMF 181; PSMF 181.) Small pieces of the brown sack material were found in the "vacuuming" of JonBenet's bed and in the body bag that was used to transport her body.(SMF 181; PSMF 181.)"
"The above evidence arguably suggests that whoever tied up JonBenet used some items brought from outside the home to do so. In addition, other fiber evidence supports an inference that some of these items from outside the home were, at one time, in the second floor area near JonBenet's bedroom. That is; fibers consistent with those of the cord used to make the slip knots and garrote were found on JonBenet's bed.(SMF 168; PSMF 168.)"
photo of the rope from jars room:
http://www.acandyrose.com/jarsroom-rope.gif
Ive been meaning to bring this up for awhile Do you remember the Sam Shepherd case? I think he was a Dr whose wife was found killed in their home yrs ago. His son about 6 or 7 at the time slept thru it. When he grew up, it became very important for him to find out the truth. (his father never recovered, I think he did some time for it in prison, when he got out he actually did some wrestling) anyways, the grown son did his best to find out the truth. I do believe grown children would wonder and do this. Certainly BR must wonder at times. I know I myself would have to know the truth. Even tho it was his little Sister, not his Mother.
Dr Shepherds wife was pregnant at the time she was murdeered so he not only lost his Mother also a little bro or Sis.
This is an article where Sam Sheppard, the Doctors son is interviewed. He states that Burke is in for a tough time for the rest of his life. He also offered him 'friendship and experience'.
A good article:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/24cburk.html
A good article:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/24cburk.html
heyya SunnieRN.
I haven't much speculated on the BRDI theories,
although I've considered the suggestion that AH decided not to persue a GJ indictment because of BR's age.
BR has been successful despite the tragedy that befell his family.
Both Ramseys are well advised to seclude themselves from publicity.
JR's appearance on Oprah, IMO wasn't an energetic response to his vindication. He didn't offer much hope in the case being solved.
The BPD and LW maneuvered around the fact that as far as reinterviews go, BR was the sole name publicly discussed .
I haven't much speculated on the BRDI theories,
although I've considered the suggestion that AH decided not to persue a GJ indictment because of BR's age.
BR has been successful despite the tragedy that befell his family.
Both Ramseys are well advised to seclude themselves from publicity.
JR's appearance on Oprah, IMO wasn't an energetic response to his vindication. He didn't offer much hope in the case being solved.
The BPD and LW maneuvered around the fact that as far as reinterviews go, BR was the sole name publicly discussed .
Tadpole, you probably know my beliefs on the subject. I truly believe Burke was involved, or one of the parents blamed him to the other parent..
Seeing that he didn't truly react to the news that his sister was dead, that he started to tell the truth about that night (JB helped carry in presents when they got home), as well as the pineapple in Jon Benets stomach, the fact that he had hit JB with a golf club on a previous incident, his voice on the 911 tape, with Johns stern response, tells me that Burke was involved, or knew exactly what happened. I don't think anything could have happened that night that didn't involve everyone in that house.
I can not understand any other reason for parents to lie, by writing a fake ransom note, cover up the murder with staging, or to continually avoid the police and their questions. All of this, despite the fact that John said he would spend every penny and every minute to find the killer of that child.
Final reason, the difference in John's behaviors of grieving, between the loss of Beth and Jon Benet. Something very hinky there!
I wonder what he told Beth Twitty (sp?), when they were dating? Did he talk about the loss of Beth or Jon Benet?
Seeing that he didn't truly react to the news that his sister was dead, that he started to tell the truth about that night (JB helped carry in presents when they got home), as well as the pineapple in Jon Benets stomach, the fact that he had hit JB with a golf club on a previous incident, his voice on the 911 tape, with Johns stern response, tells me that Burke was involved, or knew exactly what happened. I don't think anything could have happened that night that didn't involve everyone in that house.
I can not understand any other reason for parents to lie, by writing a fake ransom note, cover up the murder with staging, or to continually avoid the police and their questions. All of this, despite the fact that John said he would spend every penny and every minute to find the killer of that child.
Final reason, the difference in John's behaviors of grieving, between the loss of Beth and Jon Benet. Something very hinky there!
I wonder what he told Beth Twitty (sp?), when they were dating? Did he talk about the loss of Beth or Jon Benet?
joeskidbeck
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"I wonder what he told Beth Twitty (sp?), when they were dating? Did he talk about the loss of Beth or Jon Benet?[/quote] SunnieRN
Sunnie, I would love to know the answer to that question. I bet Beth has her own opinion of what happened to JonBenet, but being the kind of person she is, she will never talk about it. That's good, it show's she has a good character. Also not dating him anymore shows pretty good character as well.
Sunnie, I would love to know the answer to that question. I bet Beth has her own opinion of what happened to JonBenet, but being the kind of person she is, she will never talk about it. That's good, it show's she has a good character. Also not dating him anymore shows pretty good character as well.
Bolded by me......I think thats the key also. I think either Burke did something and they covered for him or Patty did it and blamed Burke to get Johns help. Im also very curious about the Beth/John relationship.