Boy From the Woods

[~n/t~]

I wonder if he thinks or was told the scar on his leg was from a car accident but it's actually a birth mark. Same birth mark on Ben's leg?

 

[ClaireNC]

Traditionally, Ryan was an Irish name, but who knows today?

Unless he is retarded, a 12-year-old already has a clear sense of the calendar. I think it would be too late for his father to teach him a different definition of "years".

Nova, I think you missed my point about the 5 years definition. I will try to clarify. My comment was to go back further in the dates of the missing. We don't know that he went missing at age 12. We do know that he thinks he is 17 and was living in the woods for 5 years. He could have moved into the woods at a much younger age, but his "father" or other care givers told him that years were something other than how we normally define them. They could have been migrating with the seasons, counting each season as a year. Or they could be moving from place to place within Europe staying in one place for two or three years and defining each two or three year period as one year. They could be counting a certain number of full moons to equal one year and not necessarily following the calendar as we know it.

I don't have much knowledge of the BH case, this is the first I had heard of it. But I see some references to "gypsies." Could it be that the tradition of that particular culture define years in some different terms?

 

[dsntslp]

5'11 is fairly tall, IMO.
Although...my brother was almost 6 ft at around 14 yrs old so IDK...

 

[gitana1]

For some reason I don't see the comment posted at 1051:waitasec:

I checked out Andrew Gosden but Andrew is a lot shorter than the mystery boy and Andrew has brown eyes.

The brown eyes are problematic, but the height is not as Andrew was only 14 when he went missing and must have grown since then.

Nova, I think you missed my point about the 5 years definition. I will try to clarify. My comment was to go back further in the dates of the missing. We don't know that he went missing at age 12. We do know that he thinks he is 17 and was living in the woods for 5 years. He could have moved into the woods at a much younger age, but his "father" or other care givers told him that years were something other than how we normally define them. They could have been migrating with the seasons, counting each season as a year. Or they could be moving from place to place within Europe staying in one place for two or three years and defining each two or three year period as one year. They could be counting a certain number of full moons to equal one year and not necessarily following the calendar as we know it.

I don't have much knowledge of the BH case, this is the first I had heard of it. But I see some references to "gypsies." Could it be that the tradition of that particular culture define years in some different terms?

Gyspies do not have a different calendar. In the Needham case, there was a man in Greece who states he saw a little blond English speaking boy in the presence of someone he thought was a Gypsy woman who he believed could not have children. The child stated, "My name is Ben". He states that after he realized Ben Needham had gone missing, he reported this to the authorities to no avail. He states he saw the child running towards him on another occasion and saw the Gypsy woman grab him and spank him before the child could get to the man.

I am skeptical of this story. At 21 months, few children can say three word sentences. My eldest brother could but it is very rare. And I have never met a child that age who could identify themselves in such a sentence. I was a preschool teacher for years and taught little ones from ages two to three as well as older kids.

Also, I am very proud of my Gyspy (Roma) heritage and very aware of the historical prejudices, myths and stereotypes that continue to follow the Roma to this day. One of those myths is that Gypsies kidnap kids. That myth has been in play for over a hundred years and it is flat false. Roma are very proud of their ethnicity and also prejudiced. Many do not believe that non-Gypsies are the same kind of humans as they are. They have a word for non-Gypsies that is somewhat perjorative: Gadjo. They would be unlikely to value a non-Gyspy child for a son or daughter of their own.

Further, the Roma have a hard time taking care of their own as discrimination continues to follow them and marginalize them, especially in Europe. They have no need for yet an other child. A Roma woman incapable of having children would simply help raise those of her siblings. There are always a ton to spare, if you will.

Finally, Gypsies are not known for any kind of sex crimes, especially against children. Typically, such things are incredibly abhorrent to them. I have never heard on a Gyspy serial killer or child murderer, for example.

 

[~n/t~]

This is Andrew. I don't think it's him
http://missingkids.co.uk/missingkid...&orgPrefix=UK02&caseNum=14SY17092007&seqNum=1

 

[belimom]

For someone not to remember where they are from (if that is indeed true - and if this is not a hoax), then either:

1) they were taken much younger than they think
2) they have diminished mental capacity
3) there was a traumatic event/injury affecting their longterm memory

JMHO - but I can't wrap my head around it otherwise.

 

[Lera213]

wait a minute in the article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Im-all-alone-in-the-world-please-help-me.html it stated he shared cigarettes with another youth.

1-Where in the woods after 5 years would he know about cigarettes and get them?

2-Another thing I was thinking could this be Ben and a man abducted him sexually abused him and this kid fell into Stockholm syndrome?

Think about how young he was, he is left with this man, dependent upon him to care for him. Do you think this man taught him on what story to tell? Do you think this man knew he was going to die so took him in the woods to prepare him? Do you think this kid knows but is lying because of his confusing and or guilt/shame?

3-another thing anyone think Ryan and Ray are just to simpatico?

Some thoughts, what say you?

 

[Wondergirl]

wait a minute in the article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Im-all-alone-in-the-world-please-help-me.html it stated he shared cigarettes with another youth.

1-Where in the woods after 5 years would he know about cigarettes and get them?

2-Another thing I was thinking could this be Ben and a man abducted him sexually abused him and this kid fell into Stockholm syndrome?

Think about how young he was, he is left with this man, dependent upon him to care for him. Do you think this man taught him on what story to tell? Do you think this man knew he was going to die so took him in the woods to prepare him? Do you think this kid knows but is lying because of his confusing and or guilt/shame?

3-another thing anyone think Ryan and Ray are just to simpatico?

Some thoughts, what say you?

BBM: You make some good points here, Lera.

Specifically, if this boy was abducted at a very young age, the man would not have had to teach him or fabricate anything. He would only know the truth that he grew up with, if you KWIM?

I have to re-iterate here, WHY did the boy go to City Hall? Why not the police? Hospital? City Hall? Really???? :waitasec:

 

[Wondergirl]

OMG.

Look at this:

"He mentioned that his mother had died in a car crash when he was a child and I got the impression he had been in the car too because he then said he had been left with scars on his legs but he didn't show them to me," the civil servant said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Im-all-alone-in-the-world-please-help-me.html

 

[Lera213]

BBM: You make some good points here, Lera.

Specifically, if this boy was abducted at a very young age, the man would not have had to teach him or fabricate anything. He would only know the truth that he grew up with, if you KWIM?

I have to re-iterate here, WHY did the boy go to City Hall? Why not the police? Hospital? City Hall? Really???? :waitasec:

Yes I thought that too but then if this man abducted him to sexually abuse him then I can see a story had to have been told to him. Perhaps after all the years and with this man dying he told a lot of the truth to the boy. Not who he is but enough to get him to CITY HALL, is that where records are kept too, like Birth Certificates? Suppose the man told him enough truth that the boy did remember some. Or if the sexual abuse persisted as he got older, maybe he has guilt of having sex with who he believed was his father?

However the cigarettes he smoked with another youth just floored me. Someone who lives in the woods for 5 years and someone who doesn't remember anything will not just come out and smoke with another youth! Very strange, they need to find this mans body also. Suppose this is just a homeless kid, and is a criminal trying to make a new identity.

 

[dsntslp]

Walks through the forest for two weeks to get to Berlin and shows up clean?
I am jealous! I can't be on a search for an hour and I am already filthy, well...at least by lunch time anyway!
Has coins for public transportation?
Shared cigarettes with another youth and there is no mention of him gagging on the first one? I can see him smoking to fit in if a cigarette was offered by another boy his own age. I think he would gag though.

I wonder about the condition of his sleeping bag and his shoes.

"Daddy" was either a thief or he had connections in a town close by and was working or cashing a pension check or something. If Daddy taught him to smoke it is an expensive habit, especially for someone who is living in the woods with no income.

IDK, it doesn't make much sense, IMO.

I do hope that if the story is legit some family somewhere will find a long lost loved one though.

Prayers.

ETA: And buries his dad himself and then does not break down at all when speaking about it aloud for the first time to another person???

Where is his tent, shovel (How did he dig to bury his dad?) and other tools he used to survive? I would never leave my only tools/weapons, never. Would you? In a survival situation?

 

[JeannieC]

I apologize if this has already been posted here. It is an age progressed picture of Ben Needham off Reuters. Not the same one I've seen posted here. If someone could copy it over here and put it next the Ray's photo it might help. jmo


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2007/10/10/uk-britain-boy-idUKL1018888720071010

 

[Lera213]

 

[dsntslp]

Thanks Lera! Well done!

 

[Lera213]

Ray's picture is not the actual picture of him though. It is one of those computer generated ones kind of like what a sketch artist would do.

 

[dsntslp]

Ben seems to have a Kirk Douglas cleft in his chin and the Berlin boy does not, IMO.
The pic of the Berlin boy is not that clear though.
People don't grow out of those like some grow out of dimples in their cheeks.
I know because I have one, lol.

 

[Lera213]

Ben seems to have a Kirk Douglas cleft in his chin and the Berlin boy does not, IMO.
The pic of the Berlin boy is not that clear though.
People don't grow out of those like some grow out of dimples in their cheeks.
I know because I have one, lol.

Law enforcement agencies around the world traditionally employ sketch artists, who piece together faces in a process similar to assembling a Mr. Potato Head toy. The witness describes key features -- such as hair length, nose size or sharpness of the chin -- and the artist combines them to create a likeness. Some departments now have computer programs that follow the same approach as these artists, creating facial composites using databases of pre-drawn features.

http://www.physorg.com/news173973620.html

Giving they cannot legally publicly submit his actual picture I believe they did one of this composite computer generated sketch of him. This is why some features will look off, grainy, out of focus, too large, too small.

 

[dsntslp]

http://www.physorg.com/news173973620.html

Giving they cannot legally publicly submit his actual picture I believe they did one of this composite computer generated sketch of him. This is why some features will look off, grainy, out of focus, too large, too small.

Thanks Lera. Do you think they would leave out something as important as the cleft that Ben has though?
I just think that if the Berlin boy had one surely they would include it. IDK though.

ETA: I don't see that cleft in Ben's baby pictures so disregard all of that I guess...

In that case (computer generated pic) I do see a lot of possible similarities.
My brother was a blond, blond baby but has darker hair now that turns reddish on top in the sun just like that too.

 

[Lera213]

I think the cleft might be there but this was not only computer generated then it was probably faxed so that might be missed in this picture because they could have just had it slight cleft also the angle too.

I had white hair when I was a young girl people now would say I have dark brown.

I'm sure if he is Ben it will come out soon enough but I would be willing to bet if he is Ben, Ben's mom will want him well prepared, maybe she will move and do other things, counseling and all before it is made public. Perhaps they know but are not going to tell the child yet too. Think if you were this kid and you were told you were stolen when you were a child and everything you were told was a lie.

This is a delicate situation if it is. This isn't the USA where camera and media hunt it down minute by minute. Germany, is different.

 

[NoraEltrain]

Holy frijoles the similarity is uncanny!