BREAKING NEWS: New DNA Analysis Suggests Family Should NOT Have Been Cleared

[kanzz]

Wow, this really, really crumbles the already weak IDI theory. Honestly, what else is there to illustrate that an intruder did it without this (the unidentified-male DNA)? I guess you can say the stun-gun marks (possible) and the boot mark, but other than that, there is zero to suggest an intruder did it, and these two facets are quite weak considering one can't prove those marks are from a stun-gun nor the boot mark from an intruder that very night.

The boot mark could have been BR's, who later admitted to owning a pair of Hi-Tec boots.

Smit's stun gun theory has been pretty thoroughly debunked - mostly by Air Taser, the company that made the gun Smit tried to say was involved (the one whose prongs were approximately the same distance apart as the marks on JB's skin, but not the same distance, as the train track prongs were).
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2001/02lrams.html

There were only 3 other people in that house that night. No intruder.

 

[Userid]

Thanks Kanzz. I agree, I am of the belief that there was never an intruder in the house.

Honestly, I don't know what to make of those markings. I agree in the sense that, I don't believe a stun gun would have been utilized to subdue a child. Although I will admit that, they do look like stun-gun markings (especially the ones by her face and neck) where the end doesn't make direct contact with the flesh, so I don't really fault anyone who believes this. That said, I also don't believe that these marks are from a toy rail-road track. I guess as far the marks go, I hold the simple opinion of having no idea what the source was.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Those tracks were all over the place, including near where the body was found. They match up perfectly. The marks weren't burns, but abrasions or bruises.

Someone hurt her with something. A jabbing with a piece of track fits. Possibly done to check for consciousness. It was there. It matches up. And the owner of said track was a very naughty boy.

 

[Heymom]

Thanks Kanzz. I agree, I am of the belief that there was never an intruder in the house.

Honestly, I don't know what to make of those markings. I agree in the sense that, I don't believe a stun gun would have been utilized to subdue a child. Although I will admit that, they do look like stun-gun markings (especially the ones by her face and neck) where the end doesn't make direct contact with the flesh, so I don't really fault anyone who believes this. That said, I also don't believe that these marks are from a toy rail-road track. I guess as far the marks go, I hold the simple opinion of having no idea what the source was.

The marks actually DO NOT look like marks from a taser. On the CBS show, during the demo of the tazer, you could see red blotches from the prongs, not discrete small marks, like puncture marks. The taser theory was Lou Smit's delusion - to help shore up the IDI theory. The train tracks actually fit the wounds EXACTLY, and there is a photograph of JonBenet with the very SAME marks on one of her legs. Was someone already using a taser on her then?? No, there was no taser.

 

[PositiveLight]

^ Agreed PL. When did they want to exhume her exactly?

On another note, I bet A&E feels really stupid right about now.

Linked from a candy rose http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm


http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000ramseyonbarbarawalters.htm
[FONT=&quot]"BARBARA WALTERS Why wasn't the body exhumed?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN RAMSEY (PAUSE) Don't know why the Police didn't consider that. Uh we were asked… when this theory first surfaced about a Stun gun that if the body were exhumed… it could be proved conclusively but it had to be done fairly quickly. This was… within months of when we'd just buried JonBenet. And I, as her father, could not bring myself to do that. I had laid my child to rest. She was at peace. And that was a that decision I couldn't make.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BARBARA WALTERS Even though it might have cleared you?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN RAMSEY It wasn't… that was not the priority. The priority was my child was at rest."

There's more quotes regarding the stungun/exhumation at the candy rose site. [/FONT]

 

[Ambitioned]

The marks actually DO NOT look like marks from a taser. On the CBS show, during the demo of the tazer, you could see red blotches from the prongs, not discrete small marks, like puncture marks. The taser theory was Lou Smit's delusion - to help shore up the IDI theory. The train tracks actually fit the wounds EXACTLY, and there is a photograph of JonBenet with the very SAME marks on one of her legs. Was someone already using a taser on her then?? No, there was no taser.

One of my brothers is a Sheriff. He rarely has to taze but he does say taze marks do not match the marks on her. Plus tazers are LOUD.

The stun gun theory needs to be buried for good and forgotten.

 

[Userid]

The marks actually DO NOT look like marks from a taser. On the CBS show, during the demo of the tazer, you could see red blotches from the prongs, not discrete small marks, like puncture marks. The taser theory was Lou Smit's delusion - to help shore up the IDI theory. The train tracks actually fit the wounds EXACTLY, and there is a photograph of JonBenet with the very SAME marks on one of her legs. Was someone already using a taser on her then?? No, there was no taser.

Disagree. The ones by her neck/face looked (I stress, "looked like") like the ones they showed on the dead man's face/neck area where they knew a stun-gun had been used. Again, I don't believe a stun gun was used or left these marks, but I will admit, the marks did look like the one's on the dead male's.

The train tracks technically fit but only if the middle prong is missing on the track, which is a stretch in and of itself, considering it would have had to have been picked out of a plethora of tracks exactly like it. My point is, the killer picked the one track that just so happened to have been missing the middle prong out of all the other exact tracks? Doubtful. Also, it just doesn't make sense that this would have been used to see if she was still alive, considering the random areas it used on (her back and her face). If BR (or anyone really) was trying to see if she were alive, they could have poked her in the upper arm or even the leg all the same -- they wouldn't need to poke her right in her neck/face (which would obviously be visible the next day, if she was still alive) and then randomly her back.

I don't want to post the pic because it may be offensive and/or break a board rule, but it's the one with the older man with a mustache. If you type "stun gun marks on neck" in google images, you will see the one that was shown to be similar to JBR's face/neck from one of the specials, where the one "dot" (for lack of a better word) is bigger and more pronounced than the other "dot" due to the charge not contacting the flesh right.

 

[Userid]

Linked from a candy rose http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm


http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000ramseyonbarbarawalters.htm
[FONT="][B][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]"BARBARA WALTERS Why wasn't the body exhumed?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/FONT]
[FONT="]JOHN RAMSEY (PAUSE) Don't know why the Police didn't consider that. Uh we were asked… when this theory first surfaced about a Stun gun that if the body were exhumed… it could be proved conclusively but it had to be done fairly quickly. This was… within months of when we'd just buried JonBenet. And I, as her father, could not bring myself to do that. I had laid my child to rest. She was at peace. And that was a that decision I couldn't make.[/FONT]
[FONT="][B][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]BARBARA WALTERS Even though it might have cleared you?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/FONT]
[FONT="]JOHN RAMSEY It wasn't… that was not the priority. The priority was my child was at rest."

There's more quotes regarding the stungun/exhumation at the candy rose site. [/FONT]

Thanks PL -- wow, so it was nearer to when she was laid to rest it seems. That makes it all the more suspicious to me why she wasn't exhumed. If they wanted to exhume her years/decades later, maybe I'd understand (although not really -- I'd want the killer found and I'd go ahead with it personally, even years later), but the fact they wanted to do it so soon after she had just been buried and after they had already performed an autopsy on her, why wouldn't you go through with it for the sake of finding out what happened?

 

[PositiveLight]

Thanks PL -- wow, so it was nearer to when she was laid to rest it seems. That makes it all the more suspicious to me why she wasn't exhumed. If they wanted to exhume her years/decades later, maybe I'd understand (although not really -- I'd want the killer found and I'd go ahead with it personally, even years later), but the fact they wanted to do it so soon after she had just been buried and after they had already performed an autopsy on her, why wouldn't you go through with it for the sake of finding out what happened?

Exactly my thoughts. Why not exhume her. You wouldn't even need to witness it if it really upset you. Just let them do their jobs and rebury her. It's only a body anyway. She was already a beautiful angel in heaven. The only thing I can reason is they didn't want her exhumed because there was more to be found that the original ME probably missed. I also wonder if that's why they were in a rush to bury her. I'd be asking 20 MEs to examine my daughter if she was brutally murdered. I'd want justice. Apparently they didn't want the truth known.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Userid]

Just one more post about the train-track...

Now...if a track was recovered without the middle-prong from the house, then I might hold a different opinion on it -- but there was never such a track recovered as far as we know. The CBS special tried to gloss over the fact that this only works as a source for the markings if (and it's a big "if") the middle prong is missing from the track. There is zero evidence any track was ever missing a middle prong, and even though I am of the non-intruder/non-stun-gun ilk, I still feel like CBS took an extra liberty there. Just my opinion.

 

[PositiveLight]

Disagree. The ones by her neck/face looked (I stress, "looked like") like the ones they showed on the dead man's face/neck area where they knew a stun-gun had been used. Again, I don't believe a stun gun was used or left these marks, but I will admit, the marks did look like the one's on the dead male's.

The train tracks technically fit but only if the middle prong is missing on the track, which is a stretch in and of itself, considering it would have had to have been picked out of a plethora of tracks exactly like it. My point is, the killer picked the one track that just so happened to have been missing the middle prong out of all the other exact tracks? Doubtful. Also, it just doesn't make sense that this would have been used to see if she was still alive, considering the random areas it used on (her back and her face). If BR (or anyone really) was trying to see if she were alive, they could have poked her in the upper arm or even the leg all the same -- they wouldn't need to poke her right in her neck/face (which would obviously be visible the next day, if she was still alive) and then randomly her back.

I don't want to post the pic because it may be offensive and/or break a board rule, but it's the one with the older man with a mustache. If you type "stun gun marks on neck" in google images, you will see the one that was shown to be similar to JBR's face/neck from one of the specials, where the one "dot" (for lack of a better word) is bigger and more pronounced than the other "dot" due to the charge not contacting the flesh right.

IIRC I believe that the train tracks did have three prongs but the outer two stuck out much further than the middle. The other end was probably the opposite so it went together like a puzzle.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Linked from a candy rose http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm


http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000ramseyonbarbarawalters.htm
[FONT=&quot]"BARBARA WALTERS Why wasn't the body exhumed?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN RAMSEY (PAUSE) Don't know why the Police didn't consider that. Uh we were asked… when this theory first surfaced about a Stun gun that if the body were exhumed… it could be proved conclusively but it had to be done fairly quickly. This was… within months of when we'd just buried JonBenet. And I, as her father, could not bring myself to do that. I had laid my child to rest. She was at peace. And that was a that decision I couldn't make.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BARBARA WALTERS Even though it might have cleared you?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN RAMSEY It wasn't… that was not the priority. The priority was my child was at rest."

There's more quotes regarding the stungun/exhumation at the candy rose site. [/FONT]

What does he mean, "Don't know why the Police didn't consider that." Wasn't it the police who requested the exhumation in the first place? He's trying to make it sound like these bumbling cops are too stupid to think of exhuming her and in the next breath explaining why HE prevented it from happening.

I may be overanalyzing but it's also interesting that he starts the sentence "Don't know..." instead of "I don't know..." IIRC cutting the pronoun out is considered a sign of deception according to statement analysis. It's like the liar doesn't want to take responsibility for what they're saying. I only mention it because I've noticed the Ramseys do it a lot, especially Patsy.

 

[Heymom]

Just one more post about the train-track...

Now...if a track was recovered without the middle-prong from the house, then I might hold a different opinion on it -- but there was never such a track recovered as far as we know. The CBS special tried to gloss over the fact that this only works as a source for the markings if (and it's a big "if") the middle prong is missing from the track. There is zero evidence any track was ever missing a middle prong, and even though I am of the non-intruder/non-stun-gun ilk, I still feel like CBS took an extra liberty there. Just my opinion.

We don't know all that much, really. Chief Kolar states that the tracks easily lost the middle prong, and he says that there were train tracks all over the floor very near to where JBR died. They match exactly. There are pictures in his book. But whatever.

 

[Duchess518]

What does he mean, "Don't know why the Police didn't consider that." Wasn't it the police who requested the exhumation in the first place? He's trying to make it sound like these bumbling cops are too stupid to think of exhuming her and in the next breath explaining why HE prevented it from happening.

I may be overanalyzing but it's also interesting that he starts the sentence "Don't know..." instead of "I don't know..." IIRC cutting the pronoun out is considered a sign of deception according to statement analysis. It's like the liar doesn't want to take responsibility for what they're saying. I only mention it because I've noticed the Ramseys do it a lot, especially Patsy.

I believe it was Lou Smit who wanted to exhume the body. It wasn't thought of until Smit presented his stun gun theory. I have no clue what JR means by bringing the cops into it. More rambling by him

 

[PositiveLight]

What does he mean, "Don't know why the Police didn't consider that." Wasn't it the police who requested the exhumation in the first place? He's trying to make it sound like these bumbling cops are too stupid to think of exhuming her and in the next breath explaining why HE prevented it from happening.

I may be overanalyzing but it's also interesting that he starts the sentence "Don't know..." instead of "I don't know..." IIRC cutting the pronoun out is considered a sign of deception according to statement analysis. It's like the liar doesn't want to take responsibility for what they're saying. I only mention it because I've noticed the Ramseys do it a lot, especially Patsy.

I noticed that too.
They took every chance they got to take jabs at the BPD. There's more quotes regarding it at the link to a candy rose site from different interviews. Ridiculous.
I don't like lie detector tests and would probably fail one if I was asked if I killed Abraham Lincoln BUT in another quote of JR's he said he was never asked to do a polygraph. Then followed it with "They asked me IF they were to ask me to do a polygraph what would I say?" and he responded "he would feel offended." or something to that effect.
You can read more about it here. http://www.acandyrose.com/s-ramseypolygraph.htm
what struck me is how JR stated basically he would fail because he had guilt over not protecting his daughter. In other words he put the cart before the horse. He went ahead and said it would come back deceptive because of his guilt "over not protecting her."
Interesting to read their reactions to comments and how they really controlled the narrative in a way in the interviews.

 

[PositiveLight]

Just one more post about the train-track...

Now...if a track was recovered without the middle-prong from the house, then I might hold a different opinion on it -- but there was never such a track recovered as far as we know. The CBS special tried to gloss over the fact that this only works as a source for the markings if (and it's a big "if") the middle prong is missing from the track. There is zero evidence any track was ever missing a middle prong, and even though I am of the non-intruder/non-stun-gun ilk, I still feel like CBS took an extra liberty there. Just my opinion.

Here's a picture that better describes what I am referring to.
Notice how the outside prongs stick out MUCH further than the middle one.

 

[kanzz]

Here's a picture that better describes what I am referring to.
Notice how the outside prongs stick out MUCH further than the middle one.

There is no middle prong in this photo. It has either fallen out (as Kolar said they did quite easily) or it has been removed.

​

 

[PositiveLight]

Okay it may very well be fallen out. I'm just reminded of my brother's train tracks. At each end of a track piece they would be opposite so that the circuits were complete. I made a crude drawing in paint to try to explain what I mean. Hopefully it makes a little sense? lol! The longer ends plug in to the next piece's hollow ends. I would think though they would own a higher end type of train set that wouldn't fall apart so easily. Train hobby isn't cheap lol
.

 

[Ambitioned]

It's called pins, just FYI.

My brothers also had Lionel tracks and the center pins would fall out or break when you take the tracks apart. Every time I go to a train show there would be a box of many discarded track with the center pins missing.

Here is a picture of such a track. Those pins were not sturdy

Userid, Kolar did 1:1 overlays and the marks from the track were a perfect fit.

 

[PositiveLight]

It's called pins, just FYI.

My brothers also had Lionel tracks and the center pins would fall out or break when you take the tracks apart. Every time I go to a train show there would be a box of many discarded track with the center pins missing.

Here is a picture of such a track. Those pins were not sturdy

Userid, Kolar did 1:1 overlays and the marks from the track were a perfect fit.

Thank you!!!
Just goes to show you price doesn't equal quality. I bet those made for some serious choking hazards too.
Then again though.... if something is built to last forever.... you wouldn't get repeat business! lol