Brendan Dassey: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's rape, torture, and murder?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Brendan Dassy: Guilty of Teresa Halbach rape, torture, and murder?

  • He was an accomplice

    Votes: 68 9.1%
  • He assisted in covering up the crime

    Votes: 59 7.9%
  • He didn't help but may have seen something

    Votes: 67 9.0%
  • Probably not guilty, his confession was coerced

    Votes: 231 31.0%
  • Not guilty, full stop, his conviction should be vacated

    Votes: 271 36.4%
  • Undecided, but believe new trial is in order

    Votes: 112 15.1%
  • Undecided all around, more information needed

    Votes: 37 5.0%

  • Total voters
    744
The whole problem with the State's narrative is it didn't and couldn't of happened the way they said it did.
There is absolutely no forensic evidence that supports their version of events.
And there is definitely no forensic evidence that Brendan Dassey had any involvement in TH's death.
It also doesn't make any sense to me why SA would involve his 16 yr. old nephew at the time of what the state purports happened. All IMO.
 
I was as shocked as everyone when watching the series, but then went back to the source documents. Go back and read Brendan's transcripts, from 11/6 onward. And watch the entire interviews. I don't see how LE had any choice except to follow up. I mean what were they supposed to do when Steven says Teresa got there around 2:30 and left five minutes later, and kid says he saw her leaving at 3:45 when he got home from school? Seems like that would demand some clarification, and that's what happens throughout. Brendan volunteers something that they know isn't true and they have to ask "so why did you just lie?"

On the surface, I can see your point. BUT... IIRC when looking into it further, there are things that he is "led" to say. For example, using your comment above about him saying he saw her after school, IIRC he only said that AFTER they said something like "what if I told you that the kids on the bus saw her too"? Then he changes his story.

Keep in mind that the bus driver went to the command center at the Salvage Yard and said that she saw Teresa. With further investigation, IMO, she was wrong on the day. We know that the school bus stops and drops the boys off at the one corner (entrance to the Salvage Yard) and again IIRC Teresa did take photo's of vehicles at that corner but not on the 31st. So it's possible the bus driver did see her once, just not the day she thought.

As for your point about following up on what Brendan said... it wasn't important enough to follow up on by LE until February/March 2006. They only went after Brendan after Steven hired Strang/Buting, IMO the State needed more, and they used Brendan.

Do you ever notice that when Brendan said something that "fit" their narrative, they didn't assume he was lying? Only when he said something that didn't "fit". Even Brendan saying that they raped her in the trailer, slit her throat, they never said "why are you lying?" They had and still have zero evidence that Teresa was raped or stabbed, slit throat, but they believed him? I wonder why that was?

I have followed this case since MaM1 came out... was lucky enough to go through all the documents as they were obtained and posted online and didn't have them all dumped in my lap at once. It took me awhile to watch all of Brendan's interviews (I have boys that were similar in age, and it was kinda scary to be honest). I don't believe for a minute that he was involved.

Sorry, I don't have the time to look it up at the moment but all of that info can be found on www.stevenaverycase.org (but sounds like you may have found them already :) )
 
I was as shocked as everyone when watching the series, but then went back to the source documents. Go back and read Brendan's transcripts, from 11/6 onward. And watch the entire interviews. I don't see how LE had any choice except to follow up. I mean what were they supposed to do when Steven says Teresa got there around 2:30 and left five minutes later, and kid says he saw her leaving at 3:45 when he got home from school? Seems like that would demand some clarification, and that's what happens throughout. Brendan volunteers something that they know isn't true and they have to ask "so why did you just lie?"

As I recall Brendan at first said that he didn't see Teresa at all. Then the police pressured him into saying that he must have seen her because everyone else on the bus did. Once they found out they could manipulate Brendan into agreeing with what they told him was the 'truth' all bets were off.

Since it's pretty much agreed all around that Teresa was not taking her photos of the car when the school bus rolled up and none of them on the bus could possibly have seen her, it is clear to me that Brendan told the truth at first and law enforcement employees got him to lie. The game after that was when they told Brendan to 'tell the truth' they meant 'tell us what we want to hear'. We see examples of that throughout the many sessions afterwards. When he couldn't guess what they wanted, they coached him.

Law enforcement did have a choice - they could have just taken his witness statements without manipulating him into changing his testimony.
 
The whole problem with the State's narrative is it didn't and couldn't of happened the way they said it did.
There is absolutely no forensic evidence that supports their version of events.
And there is definitely no forensic evidence that Brendan Dassey had any involvement in TH's death.
It also doesn't make any sense to me why SA would involve his 16 yr. old nephew at the time of what the state purports happened. All IMO.

The states narrative is absolutely incredible, it's beyond belief they got a conviction. We're supposed to believe that Dassey and Avery made dumb mistakes like leaving the RAV to be found, leaving blood in the RAV, leaving a car key basically in plain sight yet on the other hand we're supposed to believe they did a clean at the crime scene to such a good standard that any forensic expert with their knowledge would have struggled to match it.

Which is it? Are they dumb as hell or experts in cleaning crime scenes? It can't be both as someone who can clean a crime scene to that standard doesn't leave the key there to be found.
 
The states narrative is absolutely incredible, it's beyond belief they got a conviction. We're supposed to believe that Dassey and Avery made dumb mistakes like leaving the RAV to be found, leaving blood in the RAV, leaving a car key basically in plain sight yet on the other hand we're supposed to believe they did a clean at the crime scene to such a good standard that any forensic expert with their knowledge would have struggled to match it.

Which is it? Are they dumb as hell or experts in cleaning crime scenes? It can't be both as someone who can clean a crime scene to that standard doesn't leave the key there to be found.
Yep. Mental gymnastics at its' finest!
BD' jury believed that SA/BD slit TH' throat, then choked her, successfully removed all the blood evidence (imagine the blood just from that OMG), and left the key out in main sight.
Wonder if TH' family's opinion of BD' confession has changed since MAM1/2?
 
The states narrative is absolutely incredible, it's beyond belief they got a conviction. We're supposed to believe that Dassey and Avery made dumb mistakes like leaving the RAV to be found, leaving blood in the RAV, leaving a car key basically in plain sight yet on the other hand we're supposed to believe they did a clean at the crime scene to such a good standard that any forensic expert with their knowledge would have struggled to match it.

Which is it? Are they dumb as hell or experts in cleaning crime scenes? It can't be both as someone who can clean a crime scene to that standard doesn't leave the key there to be found.
Agreed, additionally....the pelvic bone fragments in the Manitowoc Preserve just South of the quarry. Why move/clean some evidence (bones, blood spatter/pool in bed/bedroom, blood spatter/pool in garage, but not remove/clean other evidence like blood in Rav4, the actual Rav4, the camera and other stuff in the burn barrell and the infamous key. You could argue IQ, but the inconsistency of taking the pelvic bones off the property but not the car....doesn't make sense. The inconsistency of removing TH DNA from key, but not from RAV4....doesn't make sense.
 
Agreed, additionally....the pelvic bone fragments in the Manitowoc Preserve just South of the quarry. Why move/clean some evidence (bones, blood spatter/pool in bed/bedroom, blood spatter/pool in garage, but not remove/clean other evidence like blood in Rav4, the actual Rav4, the camera and other stuff in the burn barrell and the infamous key. You could argue IQ, but the inconsistency of taking the pelvic bones off the property but not the car....doesn't make sense. The inconsistency of removing TH DNA from key, but not from RAV4....doesn't make sense.

Also, it turns out there were A LOT of bone fragments found off of Steven's property, not just 2 well known pelvic bone pieces. I really need to look into this, but there were like 20 more bone fragments.
 
I'll scratch the bit about seeing the car - there was date confusion on everyone's part. A light bulb went off, for me, during Season 2: Steve was a walking lottery ticket for the family - one that was worthless with him behind bars. I believe they knew, or suspected, almost immediately what happened, yet they had 36 million reasons to circle the wagons.

LE may have encouraged Brendan, at some points, but the only places where I hear him saying things he's been "fed" are when he's lying about pointless details provided by the Avery's- like the headlights and tail lights. Seriously - is the contention that the family believes nothing happened and their genius idea is "instead of Brendan just telling the cops the truth (which is 'nothing happened'), let's fill his head with goofy details!" It's Seinfeldian ("yea - I like THIS idea <eye roll>!"). Where did LE feed him things like the detailed way Steve told him how he was going fill and level the burn pit? There's what the family told him to say, there's what he resisted saying for self-preservation, there's some minor things where maybe LE suggested (hood latch), and what's left is what actually happened.

He talks about her being tied up with rope, so there goes any theories about novelty restraints. He talks about her being stabbed in the back of her vehicle, which explains blood (and they did do a Laurel and Hardy clean up job in the garage with gas and bleach). He says she was shot five or ten times, all over, which could explain the errant bullet. I believe there's a mention of Steve driving her vehicle to the "pit," which is the quarry, not the burn pit, which explains the K-9 hits. He talks about Teresa cutting Steve's finger with her nail, which explains his blood in her vehicle. LE conducted numerous searches, all with specific goals - first, see if Teresa's there, next go to collect specific items, finally an in-depth crime scene search. The bullet and key weren't "missed," they were found the first time LE did a general search. I mean it's all right there, and so much more repeatable than two counties of law enforcement doing an X-Files-style frame-up of a guy who was already wrongly convicted once.

I mean really? This one isn't that complicated. And I feel for Brendan. His lawyer, who came across as such a creepy jerk, was right - if he had cooperated and testified against Steve, he'd be home now. Too bad the family thought they were one step from Easy Street.
 
I'll scratch the bit about seeing the car - there was date confusion on everyone's part. A light bulb went off, for me, during Season 2: Steve was a walking lottery ticket for the family - one that was worthless with him behind bars. I believe they knew, or suspected, almost immediately what happened, yet they had 36 million reasons to circle the wagons.

LE may have encouraged Brendan, at some points, but the only places where I hear him saying things he's been "fed" are when he's lying about pointless details provided by the Avery's- like the headlights and tail lights. Seriously - is the contention that the family believes nothing happened and their genius idea is "instead of Brendan just telling the cops the truth (which is 'nothing happened'), let's fill his head with goofy details!" It's Seinfeldian ("yea - I like THIS idea <eye roll>!"). Where did LE feed him things like the detailed way Steve told him how he was going fill and level the burn pit? There's what the family told him to say, there's what he resisted saying for self-preservation, there's some minor things where maybe LE suggested (hood latch), and what's left is what actually happened.

He talks about her being tied up with rope, so there goes any theories about novelty restraints. He talks about her being stabbed in the back of her vehicle, which explains blood (and they did do a Laurel and Hardy clean up job in the garage with gas and bleach). He says she was shot five or ten times, all over, which could explain the errant bullet. I believe there's a mention of Steve driving her vehicle to the "pit," which is the quarry, not the burn pit, which explains the K-9 hits. He talks about Teresa cutting Steve's finger with her nail, which explains his blood in her vehicle. LE conducted numerous searches, all with specific goals - first, see if Teresa's there, next go to collect specific items, finally an in-depth crime scene search. The bullet and key weren't "missed," they were found the first time LE did a general search. I mean it's all right there, and so much more repeatable than two counties of law enforcement doing an X-Files-style frame-up of a guy who was already wrongly convicted once.

I mean really? This one isn't that complicated. And I feel for Brendan. His lawyer, who came across as such a creepy jerk, was right - if he had cooperated and testified against Steve, he'd be home now. Too bad the family thought they were one step from Easy Street.

Making a Murderer': The Complicated Argument Over Brendan Dassey's Confession
Richard Ofshe, a defense expert in interrogation tactics, said he has worked on dozens of cases over 30 years where innocent people have confessed to crimes they didn’t commit and were convicted solely based on that confession. He brought up the case of the Central Park Five, which involved five young teens who confessed in gruesome detail to attacking and raping a 28-year-old woman in the spring of 1989, but none of them had actually committed the crime.
All of them did it because of the way in which they were manipulated, because they came to believe that they would only be able to minimize their punishment, only be able to save some part of their lives if they cooperated with the police who were simply lying to them,” Ofshe said.

More than one out of four people wrongfully convicted and later exonerated by DNA evidence have made a false confession or incriminating statements, according to the Innocence Project.
'Making a Murderer': The Argument Over Brendan Dassey's Confession
 
IA light bulb went off, for me, during Season 2: Steve was a walking lottery ticket for the family - one that was worthless with him behind bars. I believe they knew, or suspected, almost immediately what happened, yet they had 36 million reasons to circle the wagons.
Scott, Bobby, Kayla and Brendan were all family members. They did an awful job of circling. Also Barb said Steven was guilty at some point, unless I'm mistaken.
LE may have encouraged Brendan, at some points, but the only places where I hear him saying things he's been "fed" are when he's lying about pointless details provided by the Avery's- like the headlights and tail lights.
Minor, pointless details like the supposed cause of death (gunshot), and location of the gunshot?
Seriously - is the contention that the family believes nothing happened and their genius idea is "instead of Brendan just telling the cops the truth (which is 'nothing happened'),

He said he didn't know several times and they wouldn't take that as answer. Where did you get the idea that Brendan confessing was part of some scheme to get Steven free?
let's fill his head with goofy details!" It's Seinfeldian ("yea - I like THIS idea <eye roll>!"). Where did LE feed him things like the detailed way Steve told him how he was going fill and level the burn pit?
Actually, Brendan said".................the fire...........said he was gonna bury it and start........" he trailed off and the police added the rest. And even if he did say what you said, that's not exactly a smoking gun is it?
The fires will have debris left over (like the metal from the car seat) and eventually the pit will get full. It probably makes more sense to just bury that and start a new one rather than clean out the debris.

The first suspicious thing Brendan claimed to see was "Toes" and even that was after the police suggested he saw a burning foot (twice I think) and insisted he saw burning flesh. Then they said he saw, "Toes, fingers, parts of hand and feet" and parts of the torso. Except for toes, he never said any of that.
Then they insisted he saw her head and face and his response was something like "Somewhat."

There's what the family told him to say, there's what he resisted saying for self-preservation, there's some minor things where maybe LE suggested (hood latch), and what's left is what actually happened.
This massively underplays how much information was fed to Brendan. And even then, feeding SOME information taints a whole lot of the confession, maybe all of the substantial stuff.

They used the "he knew about the hood latch" in court, so that wasn't THAT minor of a detail to the prosecution. They also mentioned that "Teresa was cooked" [Fassbender's words] in the fire pit behind the garage. They also asked if he saw anything in the fire and he said "some branches.......a cabinet and some tires....." And they again suggested Teresa's body. Is "the body was burned in the fire pit behind the garage" a minor detail? This is not rhetorical. I'm interested in an answer.
They implied many, many times that her body was in the fire well before he said anything of the sort. He even kept saying things that were in the fire after they suggested the body. He'd go back to garbage bags and paper plates and a shirt.


He talks about her being tied up with rope, so there goes any theories about novelty restraints.

Weird. Prosecutor Fallon in Dassey's trial said she was handcuffed. Go look at the trial transcripts for Brendan. Handcuffs are mentioned a lot.

He talks about her being stabbed in the back of her vehicle, which explains blood
No it doesn't. It explains the notion that there is blood in the RAV4, but it hardly explains the amount of blood and blood spatter pattern in the vehicle. Also, source for this specific claim. I'd like to see the context in which he said the stabbing thing.
(and they did do a Laurel and Hardy clean up job in the garage with gas and bleach).
Did they ever find any evidence that demonstrated that what they cleaned was blood?
He says she was shot five or ten times, all over, which could explain the errant bullet.
He said a lot of stuff that has no evidence to back it up.
Also, they killed her in the garage, and one of the bullets went through the wall and stayed in the garage?
The landlord said he fired between 2000 and 3000 .22 caliber bullets all around the property. That could also explain errant bullets.
I believe there's a mention of Steve driving her vehicle to the "pit," which is the quarry, not the burn pit, which explains the K-9 hits.
Is there anything that states the quarry was the pit, and not the burn pit on the property that was mentioned countless times? Kratz tried downplaying bone fragments found in the quarry during the trial. So the state was pretty sure the body was never there.

Something else that would explain the k-9 hits is that the prosecution's narrative is wrong.

He talks about Teresa cutting Steve's finger with her nail, which explains his blood in her vehicle.
It fits the narrative, doesn't mean it what happened. "Physically possible" and "definitely happened" are 2 different things.
LE conducted numerous searches, all with specific goals - first, see if Teresa's there, next go to collect specific items, finally an in-depth crime scene search. The bullet and key weren't "missed," they were found the first time LE did a general search.
So people who shouldn't have even been on his property were the ones to do the first general search and they find the important stuff? I fail to see how that is much better. Also, I'd like a source on exactly how thorough the first, less general searches were.
if he had cooperated and testified against Steve, he'd be home now.
Probably, but that doesn't really mean much about guilt or innocence either way.
Too bad the family thought they were one step from Easy Street.
I really cannot understand how this is supposed to work at all. Unless the family decided to lie to help Steven for money only AFTER several members of the family worked to put him away. That's really not a very good plan. Unless they came out and said this specifically, I can't really figure out how you came to that conclusion.


My main source is the interview from Feb. 27th. I come back to this several times.
Source:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5691be1b25981daa98f417c8/t/569316d25a566828b96d64f1/1452480211879/Transcript+-+February+27,+2006+(at+Mishicot+High+School).pdf
 
You are responding to many things I didn't say, so I'll try to address, one or two at a time.
Minor, pointless details like the supposed cause of death (gunshot), and location of the gunshot?

By "minor details" I am referring to things the family coached him to say. There were no "headlights and tail lights," because the "cops" weren't there stealing blood from Steve's sink, and Teresa's Ex wasn't back there moving the RAV away from Steve's house (although I'm not sure how that was a theory, since they said she left that afternoon.)

So people who shouldn't have even been on his property were the ones to do the first general search and they find the important stuff?

No idea where you got that. A summary on the Avery case site explains that LE was at the property numerous times (seven?) for specific searches. All of them prior to finding the key and bullet were for specific reasons - if a member of LE is sent to collect a particular item (a computer, for example) and they collect that computer, they don't just then to go poking around the attic.

Just so we know where we're coming from, I believe one could re-create what actually happened with a large degree of accuracy, from the forensics and Brendan's narrative. I believe Steve planned it and it happened the way it was described. Are you of the position that he did it, but the prosecution was sloppy, that Steve was the victim of government conspiracy or that it was one of Zellner's "Denny's"?
 
Weird. Prosecutor Fallon in Dassey's trial said she was handcuffed. Go look at the trial transcripts for Brendan. Handcuffs are mentioned a lot.

When I was prosecuted for a misdemeanor the arresting officer lied and the prosecutor kept hammering on the same part of his narrative - something that wasn't true. My lawyer even got the officer to admit that particular aspect wasn't true. It didn't matter - I was guilty, everyone knew it. The prosecutor had a story to tell, and the fictional parts just made his story more dramatic, so he went right along repeating them. Steve wasn't being tried because he may have used more restraints than the "novelty cuffs. " Very small detail next to the rape and murder.
 
You are responding to many things I didn't say, so I'll try to address, one or two at a time.


By "minor details" I am referring to things the family coached him to say. There were no "headlights and tail lights," because the "cops" weren't there stealing blood from Steve's sink, and Teresa's Ex wasn't back there moving the RAV away from Steve's house (although I'm not sure how that was a theory, since they said she left that afternoon.)



No idea where you got that. A summary on the Avery case site explains that LE was at the property numerous times (seven?) for specific searches. All of them prior to finding the key and bullet were for specific reasons - if a member of LE is sent to collect a particular item (a computer, for example) and they collect that computer, they don't just then to go poking around the attic.

Just so we know where we're coming from, I believe one could re-create what actually happened with a large degree of accuracy, from the forensics and Brendan's narrative. I believe Steve planned it and it happened the way it was described. Are you of the position that he did it, but the prosecution was sloppy, that Steve was the victim of government conspiracy or that it was one of Zellner's "Denny's"?

I am going to assume you were on the .com site. IMO that site is slightly slanted to the guilt side, as it is a prominent reddit guilter who made/runs it.

If you have the time, www.stevenaverycase.org has all of the documents that were made available to the public. There are no opinions, no summaries. You can read the reports and decide for yourself. I will say that the CASO report is a hot mess though lol over 1000 pages and not in order, so it can be brutal trying to find information. The "find" feature can definitely be your friend while going through these (although it doesn't work on all of the documents).

A good place to start is the CASO report IMO. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf
 
You are responding to many things I didn't say, so I'll try to address, one or two at a time.
I think my response is fairly good. Surely, egregious mistakes would be pointed out and refuted with primary source documents.
By "minor details" I am referring to things the family coached him to say. There were no "headlights and tail lights," because the "cops" weren't there stealing blood from Steve's sink, and Teresa's Ex wasn't back there moving the RAV away from Steve's house (although I'm not sure how that was a theory, since they said she left that afternoon.)
We were talking about Brendan, I thought. Steven and Chuck saw the lights. Steven and Brendan are different people. I don't know why you think people coached Steven and Chuck to talk about lights.

No idea where you got that.
I got it from the thing you said that I quoted. I quoted you to provide the relevant context for my words.
You said the key and the bullet were found on the "first general search." The key was found was found by Lenk and Colburn. They were deposed in the lawsuit Steven filed against the county and I have read that those two could have even been added as co-defendants. Either way, they were on the wrong end of a $36million lawsuit Steven filed.
This is why I said "the first general search" was performed by people who shouldn't have been there.
That is why Manitowoc County said they were turning over the investigation to Calumet County- to prevent these conflict of interest problems.


A summary on the Avery case site explains that LE was at the property numerous times (seven?) for specific searches. All of them prior to finding the key and bullet were for specific reasons - if a member of LE is sent to collect a particular item (a computer, for example) and they collect that computer, they don't just then to go poking around the attic.

I wouldn't rely on a summary. The way you talked about them, I thought you had really studied the specifics of the searches. The summary is not going to be very detailed, by definition. In fact, I am aware of the summary you're talking about, it has about 3 sentences about these searches altogether. That is less than one sentence per search. Primary source documents are a beautiful thing.

Just so we know where we're coming from, I believe one could re-create what actually happened with a large degree of accuracy, from the forensics and Brendan's narrative. I believe Steve planned it and it happened the way it was described. Are you of the position that he did it, but the prosecution was sloppy, that Steve was the victim of government conspiracy or that it was one of Zellner's "Denny's"?
What you believe is pretty troubling.
In order for a confession to be meaningful, it has to have information the confessor couldn't otherwise known and at the same time is backed up by forensics. Something like 500 people confessed to being the Zodiac killer and none of them were arrested because the evidence just wasn't there. Confessions alone are not enough.

His confession is very weak. He didn't provide any of the major details before the police provided them, and a lot of the "minor details" are the things he provided, many of which are dubious at best and have absolutely nothing to back them up. Even a lot of the stuff the police told him can be pretty strongly doubted.

Is it possible she was raped? Yeah. But to treat it as a certainty is wrong and to put him in prison based off of just the confession is even worse.

Ultimately, the state relied heavily on unverified and unverifiable claims and lots of weird, contestable evidence, and presumably some amount of alright evidence.


And finally, I am of the position that it is possible he did it. I might even be at more likely than not, but I can't trust the investigation or the court proceedings. There were too many things done weirdly, done wrong, and done wrong on purpose. I don't know what I actually can trust. That is mostly what I am actually doing on websleuths. I am trying to hammer things out.

If 1% of the case is tainted, that brings in scrutiny for just about everything and I feel the state's case was way more than 1% tainted.
 
We were talking about Brendan, I thought. Steven and Chuck saw the lights. Steven and Brendan are different people. I don't know why you think people coached Steven and Chuck to talk about lights.

Objection: Argumentative.

Brendan Dassey, 11/06/2005: "Just when we seem them hi, them ah headlights and them taillights."

Brendan didn't see lights (no one saw lights, because there weren't any), was told to say they (Steve and Chuckie) saw lights. My point is that if nothing happened, and Teresa left at 2:45, why is the kid already talking nonsense?

I wouldn't rely on a summary. The way you talked about them, I thought you had really studied the specifics of the searches. The summary is not going to be very detailed, by definition. In fact, I am aware of the summary you're talking about, it has about 3 sentences about these searches altogether. That is less than one sentence per search. Primary source documents are a beautiful thing.

True, but I don't think one needs to learn German and Russian to come to grips with what happened at Stalingrad. Summarizing data is also a beautiful thing - one that makes our world go around.
 
And finally, I am of the position that it is possible he did it. I might even be at more likely than not, but I can't trust the investigation or the court proceedings. There were too many things done weirdly, done wrong, and done wrong on purpose. I don't know what I actually can trust. That is mostly what I am actually doing on websleuths. I am trying to hammer things out.

That's exactly where I was with Ross Harris. I would have found it very difficult to find him guilty as a member of that jury, based on prosecution's case.
 
Im a new member and not sure where to post really... but im wondering about the narrative given by Brendan about hearing screams and all the talking to him by TH. I would think if your in a flimsy trailer with neighbors you would use a gag or duck tape or something to keep the victim quiet. I think someone in that family may have done something, or not... but some family wanted Steven to be guilty and Brenden may have picked up on that and so felt it was ok to make up his story...
 
Making a Murderer': The Complicated Argument Over Brendan Dassey's Confession
Richard Ofshe, a defense expert in interrogation tactics, said he has worked on dozens of cases over 30 years where innocent people have confessed to crimes they didn’t commit and were convicted solely based on that confession. He brought up the case of the Central Park Five, which involved five young teens who confessed in gruesome detail to attacking and raping a 28-year-old woman in the spring of 1989, but none of them had actually committed the crime.
All of them did it because of the way in which they were manipulated, because they came to believe that they would only be able to minimize their punishment, only be able to save some part of their lives if they cooperated with the police who were simply lying to them,” Ofshe said.

More than one out of four people wrongfully convicted and later exonerated by DNA evidence have made a false confession or incriminating statements, according to the Innocence Project.
'Making a Murderer': The Argument Over Brendan Dassey's Confession
 
Objection: Argumentative.

Brendan Dassey, 11/06/2005: "Just when we seem them hi, them ah headlights and them taillights."

Brendan didn't see lights (no one saw lights, because there weren't any), was told to say they (Steve and Chuckie) saw lights.
My point is that if nothing happened, and Teresa left at 2:45, why is the kid already talking nonsense?



True, but I don't think one needs to learn German and Russian to come to grips with what happened at Stalingrad. Summarizing data is also a beautiful thing - one that makes our world go around.

BBM

How do you know there were no lights on the nights they were reported? Were you with Steven and his brother at Avery Salvage Yard at the time?
 
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