Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

[zerbert]

so back in 2005 was oxy bleach a common household product in the US? ( It wasn't that common a laundry product in the UK until relatively recently as stain removal powder.)

Have they re-tested those pants for blood?

Here's a famous infomercial from 2000. Yes, it was well-known in 2005.

[video=youtube;ZTpXh33Mbeg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTpXh33Mbeg[/video]

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I will just leave this here.

Preliminary hearing for Steven Avery. December 6, 2005 (approximately 3 months before they interviewed Brendan)
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Preliminary-Examination-2005Dec06.pdf

May want to skip to page 99, that would be the first mention of bones intertwined within steel belts of tires. The first mention of the van seat is on page 103, and then more questions about said seat follow on page 104.

This was a public hearing.

I'm not even sure those are her bones versus just a bunch of animal bones.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Here's a famous infomercial from 2000. Yes, it was well-known in 2005.

[video=youtube;ZTpXh33Mbeg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTpXh33Mbeg[/video]

Welcome back Zerbert! :seeya: Thanks for looking this up, saves me some trouble of doing it myself. I wasn't sure if they did or not~~but I guess now I know they did!

 

[Karinna]

I'm not even sure those are her bones versus just a bunch of animal bones.

Well that i think is a problem. I don't think it was ever verified properly 100% that they were TH's bones. Not good if that is the case. If not and TH is deceased then where are her remains?

 

[cottonweaver]

Here's a famous infomercial from 2000. Yes, it was well-known in 2005.

Thanks.
I found an old thread on it after all, so Oxy 10 appears to be irrelevant in the end.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ch-Brendan-s-pants-and-the-garage-floor/page2

 

[Limaes]

Thanks.
I found an old thread on it after all, so Oxy 10 appears to be irrelevant in the end.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ch-Brendan-s-pants-and-the-garage-floor/page2

Yes, hopefully people will understand better.

 

[Limaes]

So he testified that he changed his clothes after school to help clean up the red that "could" of been blood or whatever it was with bleach. Well that says to me he didn't know what it was, but it could of been, unless he was told exactly what it was.
I don't see anything nefarious about accidentally splashing clothes with bleach, it does happen sometimes. I guess it would depend on how the bleach was dispensed. All IMO.

Yes he testified to that under oath. He also said that he did not get down on his hands and knees to clean. He says that he was standing and used his shoe to wipe the red coloured liquid with the old clothes (he previously said they were Teresa's). There were bleach stains on the waistband. Unless he was wearing a little midriff top, the bleach would have to make its way to his waist, lift his shirt, and then duck underneath to land on his waistband. That is less believable than the magic bullet theory in the JFK assassination.

Perhaps he wiped his hands on his jeans, but that would mean he lied when he said he used his shoes and not his hands. Wonder why he would lie about that?

How strange that they gave the garage floor a thorough clean, or 3ft x 3ft area anyways, the same day Teresa was last seen on their property and that BD rushed home put his jeans in the washing machine after only wearing them for a couple of hours?

 

[Karinna]

Yes he testified to that under oath. He also said that he did not get down on his hands and knees to clean. He says that he was standing and used his shoe to wipe the red coloured liquid with the old clothes (he previously said they were Teresa's). There were bleach stains on the waistband. Unless he was wearing a little midriff top, the bleach would have to make its way to his waist, lift his shirt, and then duck underneath to land on his waistband. That is less believable than the magic bullet theory in the JFK assassination.

Perhaps he wiped his hands on his jeans, but that would mean he lied when he said he used his shoes and not his hands. Wonder why he would lie about that?

How strange that they gave the garage floor a thorough clean, or 3ft x 3ft area anyways, the same day Teresa was last seen on their property and that BD rushed home put his jeans in the washing machine after only wearing them for a couple of hours?

Wonder if they bleached away all the evidence of TH's supposed rape & stabbing, and with BD stating he cut her throat after SA handed him the knife?
There should of been some blood evidence and other DNA evidence in SA's bedroom if TH was shackled to the bed while all of that happened i would think?
And then what happened? They took TH out to the garage to shoot her as well? Sounds preposterous to me.
(quote)
Four months later, Dassey confessed to investigators, describing in detail how he raped Halbach as she was shackled to a bed. Avery then stabbed her and handed Dassey the knife with which the teen slit her throat, he told investigators.

He later recanted the confession, saying investigators coerced him.
http://www.murderpedia.org/male.A/a/avery-steven.htm

 

[Sinsaint]

Yes he testified to that under oath. He also said that he did not get down on his hands and knees to clean. He says that he was standing and used his shoe to wipe the red coloured liquid with the old clothes (he previously said they were Teresa's). There were bleach stains on the waistband. Unless he was wearing a little midriff top, the bleach would have to make its way to his waist, lift his shirt, and then duck underneath to land on his waistband. That is less believable than the magic bullet theory in the JFK assassination.

Perhaps he wiped his hands on his jeans, but that would mean he lied when he said he used his shoes and not his hands. Wonder why he would lie about that?

How strange that they gave the garage floor a thorough clean, or 3ft x 3ft area anyways, the same day Teresa was last seen on their property and that BD rushed home put his jeans in the washing machine after only wearing them for a couple of hours?

Have you seen these jeans? Do you know if the bleach stains in question were splatter stains or contact stains? For all any of us know Brendan poured the bleach on the clothing while it was still in his hand. His hand could have had bleach on it and then he touched his waistband. Bleach on his jeans doesn't mean he cleaned a crime scene or murdered anyone. All it means is that he cleaned something up. And who cares if he threw them in the wash that same night? His mom strikes me as the type of mom who might throw a fit if Brendan ruined his clothing. He may have been trying to wash them right away thinking that would prevent any stains so his mom wouldn't complain. My oldest son tried that once so it doesn't strike me as being a nefarious action by any means.

 

[missy1974]

Day 6 page 120 of SA's trial. Ertl's testimony, cross examination by Buting
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Transcript-Day-6-2007Feb19.pdf#page=120

Q. Luminol is this substance that reacts to a number of different things besides just blood, right?
A. That's correct.
Q. Other kinds of chemicals, you mentioned cleaning agents, bleach reacts real highly to that, very strong?
A. Yes.
Q. Which means very bright?
A. Bright and fast, yes.
Q. Okay. What about other kinds of things, transmission fluid perhaps, oils, things of that nature?
A. I know it reacts with some metals, copper and lead in particular. Transmission fluid might have some metals ground into it, so it's possible.

continue reading about the "stain"

Q. And that particular area, you didn't find any --any kind of blood reaction at all?
A. That's correct.

I wasn't sure of the colour of transmission fluid, so googled it.


looks kinda like...... blood IMO

 

[Karinna]

Day 6 page 120 of SA's trial. Ertl's testimony, cross examination by Buting
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Transcript-Day-6-2007Feb19.pdf#page=120

Q. Luminol is this substance that reacts to a number of different things besides just blood, right?
A. That's correct.
Q. Other kinds of chemicals, you mentioned cleaning agents, bleach reacts real highly to that, very strong?
A. Yes.
Q. Which means very bright?
A. Bright and fast, yes.
Q. Okay. What about other kinds of things, transmission fluid perhaps, oils, things of that nature?
A. I know it reacts with some metals, copper and lead in particular. Transmission fluid might have some metals ground into it, so it's possible.

continue reading about the "stain"

Q. And that particular area, you didn't find any --any kind of blood reaction at all?
A. That's correct.

I wasn't sure of the colour of transmission fluid, so googled it.
View attachment 100106

looks kinda like...... blood IMO

Yes it does. And to add to your post this:

In addition to iron and iron compounds, other substances can catalyze the luminol reaction. Copper and its compounds, horseradish, and bleach also cause the solution to glow. So, you could substitute any of these materials for the drop of blood or potassium ferricyanide in the demonstration. Similarly, the presence of these chemicals at a crime scene affects testing for blood. If a crime scene was washed in bleach, for example, the whole area would glow when sprayed with luminol, making it necessary to use a different test to find traces of blood.
http://chemistry.about.com/od/glowinthedarkprojects/a/luminolblood.htm

 

[missy1974]

Yes it does. And to add to your post this:

In addition to iron and iron compounds, other substances can catalyze the luminol reaction. Copper and its compounds, horseradish, and bleach also cause the solution to glow. So, you could substitute any of these materials for the drop of blood or potassium ferricyanide in the demonstration. Similarly, the presence of these chemicals at a crime scene affects testing for blood. If a crime scene was washed in bleach, for example, the whole area would glow when sprayed with luminol, making it necessary to use a different test to find traces of blood.
http://chemistry.about.com/od/glowinthedarkprojects/a/luminolblood.htm

Right! Which is what Ertl did.... he did phenolphthalein tests, which tests for blood. There was none found.

 

[missy1974]

Have you seen these jeans? Do you know if the bleach stains in question were splatter stains or contact stains? For all any of us know Brendan poured the bleach on the clothing while it was still in his hand. His hand could have had bleach on it and then he touched his waistband. Bleach on his jeans doesn't mean he cleaned a crime scene or murdered anyone. All it means is that he cleaned something up. And who cares if he threw them in the wash that same night? His mom strikes me as the type of mom who might throw a fit if Brendan ruined his clothing. He may have been trying to wash them right away thinking that would prevent any stains so his mom wouldn't complain. My oldest son tried that once so it doesn't strike me as being a nefarious action by any means.

From the testimony I just read, there are no stains on the waistband. This is from Fassbender's testimony on page 174-175 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9dpNu3jLO3tMENkSjlRME5ROHc/view

A Yes. Urn, white stains on the lower right-hand pocket area of the blue jeans, and also on the upper, uh, left-hand pocket area of the blue jeans there's some white staining.

Q. Some stains around the, uh, bottom portions or around the knees as well?

A. Yes. Spots and stains that are white.


JMO but this seems quite consistent with standing on the garage floor... pouring bleach on the stain, of course it's going to splash up. Even if he uses his feet to wipe it with the rag (that he said came from a bag of old clothes that don't fit him or his brothers anymore), how does the rag get to the fire. Like he testifies too..... he picked them up... with his fingers (page 35 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9dpNu3jLO3tZk1VTkk5YmhfbHc/view )... and put it in the fire. The description of the stains are consistent with a 15 yr old kid that puts his hand in his pocket and/or wipes his hands on his jeans because his hands are wet/dirty after picking up the rag.

My source for this is.... I'm a mother of 3 children, and 2 step children. If I had a nickel for every time I saw one of them wipe their hands on their pants, I would be rich and sitting on the beach right now! I agree Sinsaint, he probably washed them himself that night and put them away so that Barb didn't see them.

I did look for a picture of the jeans but was unable to find one. I found many of pink fluffy handcuffs though while searching.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news...put-in-brendan-dasseys-fate-making-a-murderer 'Teresa Halbach's Family to Have Input in Brendan Dassey's Fate' :maddening: Unbelievable! Still doesn't matter if the kid is possibly innocent, apparently. I tell myself that nothing about this case will shock me anymore, and then they come back with things that are so low and slimy that it shocks me again, lol.

 

[missy1974]

http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news...put-in-brendan-dasseys-fate-making-a-murderer 'Teresa Halbach's Family to Have Input in Brendan Dassey's Fate' :maddening: Unbelievable! Still doesn't matter if the kid is possibly innocent, apparently. I tell myself that nothing about this case will shock me anymore, and then they come back with things that are so low and slimy that it shocks me again, lol.

I think the Halbach family should be kept informed, the options, how, if they can, legally appeal the decision, and the likelihood of being successful. If they want to retry him, they should be informed about the likelihood of that being successful too. As for their feelings.... in the kindest way possible, their feelings really don't matter. It's about the law and whether they legally can appeal, or whether they have enough evidence that points to, and is enough to convict.

All of their feelings towards SA and BD are a result of what they were fed by LE and prosecutors 10 years ago, some of which are the details that came from BD's involuntary confession, with still no corroborating physical evidence. And they aren't alone.... many from the area still blindly believe LE did nothing wrong, and there was nothing wrong with this investigation. JMO

 

[Jaiddie]

I agree about the fact that the Halbach's should be kept informed of options and what will be possibly happening in the future with Dassey's case, but they should by no means have any input on what is done. That should be up to case law, etc...I would think.

 

[Sinsaint]

From the testimony I just read, there are no stains on the waistband. This is from Fassbender's testimony on page 174-175 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9dpNu3jLO3tMENkSjlRME5ROHc/view

A Yes. Urn, white stains on the lower right-hand pocket area of the blue jeans, and also on the upper, uh, left-hand pocket area of the blue jeans there's some white staining.

Q. Some stains around the, uh, bottom portions or around the knees as well?

A. Yes. Spots and stains that are white.


JMO but this seems quite consistent with standing on the garage floor... pouring bleach on the stain, of course it's going to splash up. Even if he uses his feet to wipe it with the rag (that he said came from a bag of old clothes that don't fit him or his brothers anymore), how does the rag get to the fire. Like he testifies too..... he picked them up... with his fingers (page 35 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9dpNu3jLO3tZk1VTkk5YmhfbHc/view )... and put it in the fire. The description of the stains are consistent with a 15 yr old kid that puts his hand in his pocket and/or wipes his hands on his jeans because his hands are wet/dirty after picking up the rag.

My source for this is.... I'm a mother of 3 children, and 2 step children. If I had a nickel for every time I saw one of them wipe their hands on their pants, I would be rich and sitting on the beach right now! I agree Sinsaint, he probably washed them himself that night and put them away so that Barb didn't see them.

I did look for a picture of the jeans but was unable to find one. I found many of pink fluffy handcuffs though while searching.

Lol... Mom of three (fourth on the way) and a stepson. So yes, seen my fair share of hand wiping on clothing! It happens. It certainly doesn't mean they were out committing crimes/cleaning crime scenes. It means they are sloppy kids.

 

[Sinsaint]

http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news...put-in-brendan-dasseys-fate-making-a-murderer 'Teresa Halbach's Family to Have Input in Brendan Dassey's Fate' :maddening: Unbelievable! Still doesn't matter if the kid is possibly innocent, apparently. I tell myself that nothing about this case will shock me anymore, and then they come back with things that are so low and slimy that it shocks me again, lol.

I think by this they mean the family might be agreeable to Brendan being offered a plea deal to a lesser crime. Some families agree to plea deals to avoid a trial. And it's a pretty normal practice to include the family in the decision. That said, Brendan is in no way obligated to take any deal. I'm hoping he doesn't.

 

[krkrjx]

I think by this they mean the family might be agreeable to Brendan being offered a plea deal to a lesser crime. Some families agree to plea deals to avoid a trial. And it's a pretty normal practice to include the family in the decision. That said, Brendan is in no way obligated to take any deal. I'm hoping he doesn't.

I too hope he doesn't. Brendan has to decide what is best for him but I hope he has an opportunity to make an informed decision. IOW, I hope the plea deal option, if any, is explained to him very clearly--what it means, how it works, and that it will likely mean he must plead guilty to something even if he is completely innocent. I want him to be aware this time around of what is happening to him and the people who care about him have the responsibility, imo, of seeing to it that he is aware.

 

[missy1974]

I too hope he doesn't. Brendan has to decide what is best for him but I hope he has an opportunity to make an informed decision. IOW, I hope the plea deal option, if any, is explained to him very clearly--what it means, how it works, and that it will likely mean he must plead guilty to something even if he is completely innocent. I want him to be aware this time around of what is happening to him and the people who care about him have the responsibility, imo, of seeing to it that he is aware.

I agree, I hope he doesn't take a plea. I thought I read something last week with his lawyers, and the impression I got was that Brendan understood that 90 days doesn't mean 90 days if there is an appeal and he is in it for the long haul. I will have to do some searching, maybe I imagined it LOL

Knowing that a wrongful conviction meant a huge lawsuit for SA 13 years ago, I could see him sticking it out. I would. JMO