Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

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my thoughts on the appeal.... PFFFFFFFT!

Poor Brendan, hopefully this appeal isn't going take as long as everything else in these cases.
 

Yup just as i suspected, they are going to fight this right til the end......
regardless, the end result will be the same.
 
Yup just as i suspected, they are going to fight this right til the end......
regardless, the end result will be the same.

That's also what I suspected they would do, fight this until the end. If BD does win, I hope he and his family leave not just that county, but the state.
 
my thoughts on the appeal.... PFFFFFFFT!

Poor Brendan, hopefully this appeal isn't going take as long as everything else in these cases.

The process will be dragged out as long as they can get away with. If there is a new trial, I expect to see delay after delay after delay.
 
So wonder how this will all go down if K. Zellner is successful in getting Avery exonerated on evidence etc. of any wrongdoing and he walks out of prison a free man, how will that affect Brendan Dassey? Won't the exoneration of Avery automatically get Dassey out of prison as well? Especially if evidence is pointing at someone else as the perpetrator? And what happens if the supposed remains of TH can't be proven to be hers?
 
Karinna, I don't think it would be automatic, but it would have to help Brendan in one way or another. It's all about time now, everything is going to take time, and who knows which will happen first. *sigh*
 
my thoughts on the appeal.... PFFFFFFFT!

Poor Brendan, hopefully this appeal isn't going take as long as everything else in these cases.

I'm surprised they didn't wait the full 90 days before filing the appeal. What a great way to waste the taxpayers money.
 
I'm surprised they didn't wait the full 90 days before filing the appeal. What a great way to waste the taxpayers money.

They had 30 days to appeal (falls on Sunday, tomorrow), they had 90 days to retry him. So they did wait until the last day, which is just, well, poopy LOL Although it's going to take time, it will be interesting to see what happens. I am not sure, but I wonder if the appeal can be denied, will have to wait to see what their legal basis for appealing is and if the 7th circuit accepts those reasons?
 
Hoosen_Fenger ~ Why do you think investigators went to talk to BD on February 27th? It's my understanding that a female cousin (who later said she had lied and still says she lied) made some remarks to a school counsellor, who told LE when they started poking around the family again, which led them to interview Brendan. I understand your opinion about the earlier interviews because you have presented it in a way that I can understand why you feel the way you do, even if I don't agree. The earlier interview of BD didn't lead police to believe Brendan had anything to do with murder though IMO, if it had, why did they wait so long to interview him again? As a side note.... this was right around the time that SA retained Buting and Strang.

As for Zellner... she hasn't been on the case for 10 years, she has been on the case formally for 8 months, but I think may have had the files before that, from SA's girlfriend. I could be wrong, but even if Zellner knows or maybe even has evidence of who did it, it's not her responsibility to help the police or to arrest anyone, her responsibility is to her client first. She needs to prove that SA didn't do it. I don't think Buting and Strang even have a concrete opinion about who did it, even if they had a feeling, they obviously didn't have proof, but they still think that SA didn't do it.

I hope that makes sense? lol

ok wait... I have another question for you since you are willing to discuss lol Take the case in it's entirety, all the documents that we have available to us..... now take away ALL of Brendan's interviews (because a judge has ruled they can't be used now). What evidence do they have that if TH was killed on that property that day, and even if SA did it, that Brendan had anything to do with it. Remember though, you can't use his statements. I really can't think of anything, but it has been awhile since I have read some of the documents, I'm curious if there is something I am forgetting.


Hi Missy1974,
Sorry I have been on away from this due to work & a holiday, so am just catching up.

I think the Police went back to BD because they were still trying to get to the bottom of the investigation, and were asking people who new all of the Avery family. I think they can tell that both Dassey & Avery were hiding something in those two original discussions, on 5th & 6th November, and went away to try and find out.

Covering all the bases, they end up speaking with the Counsellor, who also noted that BD was losing weight. They realise they are on to something and they begin to get under his skin. Before too long, he is sharing info that corroborates with what they understand.

A girl has gone missing, and the last place she was known to be, was at Avery's. Her car & cremains are found, along with personal possessions on the property. They have DNA of Avery already in the RAV4 but very soon, understand that Avery disconnected the Battery on the RAV4 and have the story that Teresa was shot in the Garage. They were not looking for a bullet until then and find one, fired from the illegally held gun, which was above Avery's bed. Dassey gives them snippets, then they do what officers do, and keep asking questions.

I agree the circumstances of the later interviews were not perfect and there should have been someone with Dassey. However, it is not unusual for Police to behave that way, given their experience, they get a feel for when someone is hiding something.

Slightly off topic, but relevant, is Avery having pointed the finger at other family members as being responsible. What does that really say? He is actually admitting Teresa was killed on the Yard, but still trying to deny his role in it, thus blowing apart any conspiracy/ planting of evidence theories. I know this is after the fact, but it is quite telling. He did not testify at his own Trial, which I know is his right, but one would have thought his team would have worked harder on a theory, other than suggest unknown persons did it. If I am Avery and I am innocent, I would be taking the stand.

Back to Dassey though, at his own Trial there was no sign of the shy person being manipulated by anyone. In fact he articulates himself quite well and says that he made the whole thing up based upon a book called 'Kiss The Girls.' He is supposed to have had a 4th Grade education at the time and not able to read & write properly. People cant have it both ways.

All that said, looks like this is not over by a long way. At any re-trial, he is going to have to explain why he did not use the reasoning of being exploited at his original trial, and he will need to explain his own defence at his trial, not just the police investigators being the bad guys. I know Avery has blamed the World & his dog for his part in it, but I also think Dassey is not out of the woods yet.
 
Karinna, I don't think it would be automatic, but it would have to help Brendan in one way or another. It's all about time now, everything is going to take time, and who knows which will happen first. *sigh*

Thanks for your reply missy. Yes i wouldn't think automatic either, and it would be a legal process, but an undeniable factor in that if Avery is innocent then how could Brendan have been an accomplice to a murder that was never committed by his uncle?
I think from what Ms. Zellner stated her test results that she wants conducted would take around 2-3 mnths. to completion. I think she then files her brief? So yes unfortunately it all takes time, and as much as people want Brendan out of prison yesterday, i'm sure his legal counsel has explained the legal process to him, so just a matter of waiting and seeing what comes next.
So i also wonder what happens if the appeal from the state is not upheld because Magistrate Judge William Duffin did go by the letter of the law in his overturning of Dassey's conviction and put forth an excellent 91 page summary of why he made the decision that he did. I think he would of covered all bases probably in such an event of an appeal, IMO.
 
So wonder how this will all go down if K. Zellner is successful in getting Avery exonerated on evidence etc. of any wrongdoing and he walks out of prison a free man, how will that affect Brendan Dassey? Won't the exoneration of Avery automatically get Dassey out of prison as well? Especially if evidence is pointing at someone else as the perpetrator? And what happens if the supposed remains of TH can't be proven to be hers?
As everyone here knows, the remains have been the biggest red flag for me throughout my research of this case for many different reasons. I would think that both men would have to be automatically exonerated if the tests come back conclusively that they cannot be proven to belong to TH. How could they continue to hold both SA and BD in prison for a murder if it cannot even be proven that TH is dead at that point?
 
As everyone here knows, the remains have been the biggest red flag for me throughout my research of this case for many different reasons. I would think that both men would have to be automatically exonerated if the tests come back conclusively that they cannot be proven to belong to TH. How could they continue to hold both SA and BD in prison for a murder if it cannot even be proven that TH is dead at that point?

I totally agree Jaiddie, and the bone evidence in this case is my biggest sticking point in this case too, especially after reading this:
(quote)
This is not surprising, as many studies have shown that DNA cannot withstand high heat exposure — such as the heat alleged to have been generated in the raging bonfire.

Recent progress of DNA analysis techniques is improving its discrimination power and sensitivity on an ongoing basis and now this technique is routinely applied to the identification of skeletal remains.74–76 DNA profiling was expected to be a useful tool for identifying severely burnt bones when morphological tests would fail because of the deformation and fragmentation. However, casework we have encountered and studies published on burnt bone DNA typing show the harsh reality of this application. As mentioned earlier, the organic matrix disappears at a comparatively early phase in the burning process, and DNA is no exception.

Several studies have reported the applicability of DNA typing to the investigation of burnt bones.28,33,36,45,52 As a pioneer of experimental study in this area, Cattaneo et al assessed the amplification of 120 bp products of the human mitochondrial DNA region V in experimentally burnt human compact bones (800°C–1,200°C, for 20 minutes) as well as in charred bones obtained from actual forensic cases.52 They found that none of these burnt specimens retained DNA that was amplifiable and concluded that DNA typing cannot be used successfully with charred bones.
https://www.dovepress.com/forensic-...-remains-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-RRFMS
 
Thanks for your reply missy. Yes i wouldn't think automatic either, and it would be a legal process, but an undeniable factor in that if Avery is innocent then how could Brendan have been an accomplice to a murder that was never committed by his uncle?
I think from what Ms. Zellner stated her test results that she wants conducted would take around 2-3 mnths. to completion. I think she then files her brief? So yes unfortunately it all takes time, and as much as people want Brendan out of prison yesterday, i'm sure his legal counsel has explained the legal process to him, so just a matter of waiting and seeing what comes next.
So i also wonder what happens if the appeal from the state is not upheld because Magistrate Judge William Duffin did go by the letter of the law in his overturning of Dassey's conviction and put forth an excellent 91 page summary of why he made the decision that he did. I think he would of covered all bases probably in such an event of an appeal, IMO.

I tried replying this morning from my phone... that did not work out so well for me, it was chilly and my fingers were cold LOL

Here is the kicker with Brendan's case.... he was not charged as an accomplice, Kratz argued that he and he alone killed TH, the same thing he argued at SA's trial, that SA alone killed TH.

Also, the way I understand it, Zellner will no longer be filing a brief in the appellate courts. That was something that SA had started on his own before KZ came on board. Now that she has filed the motion to test new evidence, it has been taken back to the local court, if I understand it correctly. She will eventually file something in Manitowoc, not sure what it will be.... hopefully a kick a$$ motion with all the test results ;-)

I have read some really great posts on reddit from people that understand the process and who have read the various appeal documents and decisions in BD's case up to this point, I think the State has an uphill battle on this one and Judge Duffin definitely did his homework and put out a well written decision. IMO
 
As everyone here knows, the remains have been the biggest red flag for me throughout my research of this case for many different reasons. I would think that both men would have to be automatically exonerated if the tests come back conclusively that they cannot be proven to belong to TH. How could they continue to hold both SA and BD in prison for a murder if it cannot even be proven that TH is dead at that point?

Ohhhh you know I'm right there with you when it comes to how they investigated and handled those bones! People have been charged and convicted though without a body, so I'm at the point that I think they would have to be proven to NOT be TH conclusively for it to matter. JMO, but I do think it is her, I think they probably did some fudging or maybe going against protocol to make the match though. (wasn't it the FBI that required more for a match? I can't remember at the moment ) I do find it hard to believe that it's not and if it isn't, then where is she? and all these years later, she still hasn't been found? and then who do those bones belong too?

I think the biggest role the bones will play in anything that Zellner finds out is who and how they were moved there, where were they actually burned. The lack of proper investigation is a huge red flag IMO and there is a reason why they didn't want to investigate. If I was Zellner, I would want to talk to Ertl, he was everywhere and probably saw a lot of things we would all like to know about, again JMO
 
Ohhhh you know I'm right there with you when it comes to how they investigated and handled those bones! People have been charged and convicted though without a body, so I'm at the point that I think they would have to be proven to NOT be TH conclusively for it to matter. JMO, but I do think it is her, I think they probably did some fudging or maybe going against protocol to make the match though. (wasn't it the FBI that required more for a match? I can't remember at the moment ) I do find it hard to believe that it's not and if it isn't, then where is she? and all these years later, she still hasn't been found? and then who do those bones belong too?

I think the biggest role the bones will play in anything that Zellner finds out is who and how they were moved there, where were they actually burned. The lack of proper investigation is a huge red flag IMO and there is a reason why they didn't want to investigate. If I was Zellner, I would want to talk to Ertl, he was everywhere and probably saw a lot of things we would all like to know about, again JMO
I agree 100% about the fact that she should want to talk to Ertl, because he made it VERY clear that he would not accept responsibility for the way that part of the investigation and retrieval went down due to the scene being altered when he arrived....hmmmm, nothing unusual there, I see. /s smh.
 
I tried replying this morning from my phone... that did not work out so well for me, it was chilly and my fingers were cold LOL

Here is the kicker with Brendan's case.... he was not charged as an accomplice, Kratz argued that he and he alone killed TH, the same thing he argued at SA's trial, that SA alone killed TH.

Also, the way I understand it, Zellner will no longer be filing a brief in the appellate courts. That was something that SA had started on his own before KZ came on board. Now that she has filed the motion to test new evidence, it has been taken back to the local court, if I understand it correctly. She will eventually file something in Manitowoc, not sure what it will be.... hopefully a kick a$$ motion with all the test results ;-)

I have read some really great posts on reddit from people that understand the process and who have read the various appeal documents and decisions in BD's case up to this point, I think the State has an uphill battle on this one and Judge Duffin definitely did his homework and put out a well written decision. IMO

Thanks for your reply missy, and clarification. BBM, when i said in my post that KZ will file her brief after test results are finalised, i called it a "brief", but maybe that was not the correct legal term. She did say what that would be in the video at the filing of her previous motion in Manitowoc, but would have to watch the video again to paraphrase her exact wording on that.
 
Ohhhh you know I'm right there with you when it comes to how they investigated and handled those bones! People have been charged and convicted though without a body, so I'm at the point that I think they would have to be proven to NOT be TH conclusively for it to matter. JMO, but I do think it is her, I think they probably did some fudging or maybe going against protocol to make the match though. (wasn't it the FBI that required more for a match? I can't remember at the moment ) I do find it hard to believe that it's not and if it isn't, then where is she? and all these years later, she still hasn't been found? and then who do those bones belong too?

I think the biggest role the bones will play in anything that Zellner finds out is who and how they were moved there, where were they actually burned. The lack of proper investigation is a huge red flag IMO and there is a reason why they didn't want to investigate. If I was Zellner, I would want to talk to Ertl, he was everywhere and probably saw a lot of things we would all like to know about, again JMO

BBM, If DNA cannot be obtained successfully from charred/burned bones my question would be how can forensics actually say with any certainty that the bones are the actual remains of the missing person in question? Are there other tests to prove that, or is it specifically reliant on DNA testing?
Yes, circumstantial cases without a body have been convicted before, but it is a very difficult process legally from what i have read. In this case there is no body though only some bits of bones.
Also i think as a parent i would have a very hard time accepting that those bones were definitely the remains of my child unless it was proven 100%. But that's just me.
I'm not saying TH isn't deceased, but there are other alternatives if it is not really proven that the bones belong to her. And thus providing at least some element of reasonable doubt. But then the jury in the case were led to believe that 100% they were TH's remains and for that very reason IMO.
 
BBM, If DNA cannot be obtained successfully from charred/burned bones my question would be how can forensics actually say with any certainty that the bones are the actual remains of the missing person in question? Are there other tests to prove that, or is it specifically reliant on DNA testing?
Yes, circumstantial cases without a body have been convicted before, but it is a very difficult process legally from what i have read. In this case there is no body though only some bits of bones.
Also i think as a parent i would have a very hard time accepting that those bones were definitely the remains of my child unless it was proven 100%. But that's just me.
I'm not saying TH isn't deceased, but there are other alternatives if it is not really proven that the bones belong to her. And thus providing at least some element of reasonable doubt. But then the jury in the case were led to believe that 100% they were TH's remains and for that very reason IMO.

I don't disagree with you at all, I think it is more likely than not her remains, but I agree that there is enough reasonable doubt there, especially considering how the "crime scene" was handled, or not handled.

I also agree about TH's family, I think I would want more "proof", JMO.
 
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