Bruce Jenner Becoming a Woman and more...#2

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm a bit amazed, neither transexuality, nor homosexuality have anything to do with reproductivity, people who think that may be surprised to find out how many lesbians and gay men parent together, I know many gay men who have fathered children for lesbians, who in turn carry children for the men to raise. That argument is moot and makes no sense whatsoever. It's sad that people still carry those beliefs around.

 

[Nova]

Doesn't mean it is not an illness either. Just like homosexuality, it is a failure to reproduce (not the case here, but you get the point). You know how some embryos have flaws so they are naturally eliminated by the mother? That's what these issues look like to me. An aberration that nature didn't catch on time, but that it would eliminate itself from the gene pool.

I beg your pardon?

Allow me to politely suggest that your knowledge of Darwin is not up-to-date. You need to do more reading on the modern understanding of natural selection and how genes come into play. Oh, and check out the DSM-5: neither the inability nor the refusal to have children is a mental illness. In fact, in families where abject stupidity is obviously in the genetic mix, declining to reproduce might be considered a virtue.

(Just to be clear, by "stupidity" I certainly do not mean those with actual mental handicaps.)

 

[Nova]

I'm a bit amazed, neither transexuality, nor homosexuality have anything to do with reproductivity, people who think that may be surprised to find out how many lesbians and gay men parent together, I know many gay men who have fathered children for lesbians, who in turn carry children for the men to raise. That argument is moot and makes no sense whatsoever. It's sad that people still carry those beliefs around.

Thank you, Mrs. G. My husband (along with his ex-wife and her new husband) have two children and three grandchildren together. Even the courts (in the fight over Prop 8) recognized that reproductivity was not a relevant issue.

 

[Zuri]

IMO the whole thing comes down to respect. Respecting other people's choices that may not align with one's beliefs or what someone else thinks is "normal". I would imagine it takes a tremendous amount of courage to transgender and I applaud those that seek their authentic selves.

 

[jjenny]

I am just curious, as to why one would need multiple cosmetic surgeries in order to be one authentic self?
I find this kind of ironic.

 

[james83]

I see Bruce has spoken of his fears of being seen as "a man in a dress", why does he fear this when that is exactly what he is?.
Personally i see no problem with a man dressing and acting like a woman, however when people want to self mutilate themselves they require mental help not egging on and congratulations.

 

[Skully]

If you have the money and the will to change something in your life that is changeable to make you happy or feel better about yourself, I believe you should do it. Not just transgender but everyone. I know many women who hates their bodies, and men too. Isn't it a mental anguish to live as a man, if you think or believe you are a woman? But many people live their lives in mental anguish because of a physical or emotional problem and what to change that "thing" about themselves and would, if they could. So I think you have to do what makes you happy and now with today's technology and medical advancements you can. How many woman get breast implants, nose jobs, lips enlarged, and lots of other procedures that only make them face the world in a more confident manner. Isn't this some of it? So if she wants to look like the woman she wants to be, but keep the rest undercover, so be it. All I am saying is, we all want to be accepted, and feel good about our selves in the process. If I was in a place to change things about my body, I would do it in a heart beat. Just for me, no one else.

 

[jjenny]

If you have the money and the will to change something in your life that is changeable to make you happy or feel better about yourself, I believe you should do it. Not just transgender but everyone. I know many women who hates their bodies, and men too. Isn't it a mental anguish to live as a man, if you think or believe you are a woman? But many people live their lives in mental anguish because of a physical or emotional problem and what to change that "thing" about themselves and would, if they could. So I think you have to do what makes you happy and now with today's technology and medical advancements you can. How many woman get breast implants, nose jobs, lips enlarged, and lots of other procedures that only make them face the world in a more confident manner. Isn't this some of it? So if she wants to look like the woman she wants to be, but keep the rest undercover, so be it. All I am saying is, we all want to be accepted, and feel good about our selves in the process. If I was in a place to change things about my body, I would do it in a heart beat. Just for me, no one else.

But if a woman had multiple plastic surgeries, I don't think anybody would be saying that she is just trying to be her authentic self. Whatever the goal of plastic surgery might have been, I find people overuse it and don't look natural.
In many cases, the results are not an improvement on what nature gave them.

 

[nrdsb4]

But if a woman had multiple plastic surgeries, I don't think anybody would be saying that she is just trying to be her authentic self. Whatever the goal of plastic surgery might have been, I find people overuse it and don't look natural.
In many cases, the results are not an improvement on what nature gave them.

I don't know that this really has anything to do with the transgender issue at all.

Bruce was having plastic surgery even back in the days where he was resigned to the fact that by virtue of his happy marriage (at that time) to Kris, he would never be able to transition to female. Perhaps he was having those surgeries for reasons not related to his gender identity issues and they had nothing to do with living an "authentic life."

And I agree that his surgeries, as well as countless of surgeries other people get, are not well done, do not give natural results, or are otherwise not very good looking or any kind of improvement in my own admittedly subjective opinion.

Who knows, really.

 

[vulture]

I have no idea what it feels like to think that the way you identify yourself in your head does not match your body. A lot of people say this happens and I have no reason not to believe them. It was in my biology textbook in college (for my biology requirement I took Human Sexuality which was far more complex than I had previously imagined and very fascinating). Some of the methods of trying to correct this condition don't sound easy or fun to do, so I assume that anyone willing to undergo them was experiencing some kind of suffering the way they were. I understand in some cases, enough suffering to contemplate suicide and that is bad. I'd rather see less suffering in the world. I'm not a doctor or a scientist so I can't say I know of a better way to deal with it. Whether it's an illness or just a condition, I don't really care, if it causes suffering I hope the recommended treatments alleviate it. To those who have transitioned or are thinking about it, I hope it brings you some relief and that people treat you kindly. I see no reason to try to hurt someone who is not hurting you, especially one who already has a lot to deal with.

 

[Nova]

IMO the whole thing comes down to respect. Respecting other people's choices that may not align with one's beliefs or what someone else thinks is "normal". I would imagine it takes a tremendous amount of courage to transgender and I applaud those that seek their authentic selves.

Yes, but let's remember the "choice" is not to be gay or transgendered, but to ADMIT one is gay or transgendered.

Otherwise, we play into crazy religious claims that we are "choosing" sin by loving our spouses and children.

 

[Nova]

I am just curious, as to why one would need multiple cosmetic surgeries in order to be one authentic self?
I find this kind of ironic.

Why does anyone need cosmetic surgery when you get right down to it?

Because one's mental self-image does not match one's actual body. And since the two can be reconciled, why shouldn't they be? Because it makes somebody else uncomfortable?

 

[Nova]

I have no idea what it feels like to think that the way you identify yourself in your head does not match your body. A lot of people say this happens and I have no reason not to believe them. It was in my biology textbook in college (for my biology requirement I took Human Sexuality which was far more complex than I had previously imagined and very fascinating). Some of the methods of trying to correct this condition don't sound easy or fun to do, so I assume that anyone willing to undergo them was experiencing some kind of suffering the way they were. I understand in some cases, enough suffering to contemplate suicide and that is bad. I'd rather see less suffering in the world. I'm not a doctor or a scientist so I can't say I know of a better way to deal with it. Whether it's an illness or just a condition, I don't really care, if it causes suffering I hope the recommended treatments alleviate it. To those who have transitioned or are thinking about it, I hope it brings you some relief and that people treat you kindly. I see no reason to try to hurt someone who is not hurting you, especially one who already has a lot to deal with.

How beautifully put! In fact, I don't recall anyone saying it better.

Now I'd like to hear equal eloquence from those who demand the right to call Caitlyn "he"!

 

[Zuri]

I am just curious, as to why one would need multiple cosmetic surgeries in order to be one authentic self?
I find this kind of ironic.

Authentic self is who you are within. Cosmetic surgery is surface. IMO

 

[Zuri]

Yes, but let's remember the "choice" is not to be gay or transgendered, but to ADMIT one is gay or transgendered.

Otherwise, we play into crazy religious claims that we are "choosing" sin by loving our spouses and children.

Sorry, I was speaking about more than just this issue and did not say it very well. You are absolutely correct and thank you for clarifying what I meant to say, only you did it so much better.

 

[Nova]

Sorry, I was speaking about more than just this issue and did not say it very well. You are absolutely correct and thank you for clarifying what I meant to say, only you did it so much better.

You said it just fine. I was only making a small qualification.

 

[Roselvr]

Did anyone see botched; where a trans guy said he had his breast implants removed because he didn't feel was in fact female? He grew up playing with dolls; identified as female until his 20's.

In the above Botched sneak peek, we meet Daniella "Two Spirits" Mendes.

This patient does not fully identify as a male or a female, just as a human. Daniella was born a male, but then transitioned to a woman but getting breast implants, and later decided to remove those implants, which she now regrets. She explains, "When I first saw myself without breast implants, I was gagging."

After having that procedure, her chest never fully recovered. She adds, "My nipple literally goes into my skin and up, underneath my muscle."

 

[jjenny]

Did anyone see botched; where a trans guy said he had his breast implants removed because he didn't feel was in fact female? He grew up playing with dolls; identified as female until his 20's.

In the above Botched sneak peek, we meet Daniella "Two Spirits" Mendes.

It was just on the other day. He wanted male pectoral implants put in, so he can be either female or the male depending on how mood strikes him. Doctors told him it won't work, because male pectoral implants would make him look more like a male, but won't work as female breasts. Basically, he was told he couldn't push them up to make it appear he has cleavage like a female. So he ended up not having any surgery.

 

[Marshmallow]

At a game the other night someone mentioned this and I said "I don't really care". Boy did it get quiet fast. Truth is, I really don't care. Not because I'm an "anynew'it'word-phobic". I don't care for the same reason I don't care what my neighbors do, beyond the obvious criminal acts I'd notice. I don't care what they do because I'm too busy living my own life to bother butting into their's. This latest pet cause topic will die down and a new one will become the hot gossip 'round the water cooler. The only reason it went all rabid is because it's a Kardashian.
My only thought is that I hope she (if the former Bruce Jenner wants to be referred to as 'she' now, that's okay with me. doesn't affect me much anyway) uses this pop topic time to really help the community she is a part of. It's easy for her, she has 'star 'power' behind her but the young person in the suburbs or the middle aged person in the business community won't have any stars making speeches and awards for bravery in the face of...
I respect her choices and those of either 'side' of the debate. I just don't care.

I don't care about what my neighbor chooses as their way of life as long as it isn't harming others. So I don't really give a flip over her.
However, she can use this as a time to focus on self and being a star or she can use her fame, past, further past, and present to help the ones who really have no voice. It's on her now.

 

[rob]

I personally don't care what Bruce/Caitlin chooses to do, I would just say I'm sick of seeing, hearing, reading about it. It is being done in a big media play and turns me off even more, because it makes me question the motives.
My real curiosity about it, I research and read about real people who go thru this, and it does not resolve their issues, and sometimes complicates their lives and make them worse. I also have read what the Johns Hopkins doctors have said about it being a mental issue instead of a physical issue, and a lot of that makes sense to me. Not being mean about it, and saying 'it's a mental issue', but is the person truly convinced this is the issue, and has not come to the conclusion prematurely, and then realized they made a mistake.
What if it is just a fetish/whim, they get turned on dressing up in female clothes, then going out into public to see if they can pass as a woman, then is isn't enough, and decide to go the ultimate, and 'become' a woman. I guess the keeping of the male equipment, and using it, when you believe you are a female seems odd to me also.
Too many sucides happen after the transformation, and many transform back to what gender they what started at.
Like I said before, to me personally, it doesn't matter, but it is truly not a cut-and-dried move on anyones part.
Hope I didn't offend anyone, not trying to.
All MOO only