Burke Ramsey Files 750 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against CBS

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
The book by ST was the one one I read about the case.

It's always tempting to believe what we initially read about a case, especially when it's written by one of the lead detectives on the case.

So, for quite a while I was going along with his theory. I discounted BR as having any part in things because I knew he had been eliminated from the enquiry, and cleared. That just left the parents. I could tell there had been no intruder.

I assumed ST was correct - that PR had 'snapped' and pushed JBR so hard that it fractured her skull. However, it never sat right with me that PR then strangled her daughter. That was the part that stuck in my craw (whatever that is). And the strangulation came so long after the head blow - that was another puzzling aspect.

Also I found it hard to accept that the R's would not be able to explain away the head blow by saying it had been an accident.

However, that is what ST said, and that is what I believed. Until fairly recently when I started reading other books and internet information.

BR started looking like a very viable suspect - imo far more viable than the parents. It all fit together nicely - the head blow, the strangulation etc.

Then there was that inverview with Dr. Phil, which I think clinched it for me.
Steve Thomas did not come right out and say it during the Websleuths podcast with Jim Kolar a few years ago, but he clearly respects Kolar a great deal - Kolar was his boss for a time - and implied that Kolar's conclusions gave him pause for thought. I know he's a private citizen with a private life now and he'll likely not comment further than this, but it seems as though Thomas may be a BDI now.

No one ever answers my direct questions about Patsy's motive (or John's, as the case may be) for starting this. Fanciful theories abound, but none ever fit with the actual evidence. That injury is evidence of a hard strike to the head, not a angry slam against a sink. An accident like a fall down the stairs probably wouldn't have caused that extensive a fracture either, as unlike adults, young children tend to bounce when falling down stairs. My four year old niece fell down an entire set of hard basement stairs and didn't sustain so much as a bruise. The ER doctor said simply "Kids bounce. They instinctively know how to roll to protect themselves and their small body mass tends to minimize any damage". And of course a tumble down the stairs would have led to a 911 call, not strangulation.

I also don't see parents fashioning a toggle rope, even if they decided to "finish her off". The way that item was made says "boy" to me, especially a Boy Scout. [FONT=&amp]I think what makes this case so challenging for so many is that its hard to know where the murderer left off and what was after-the-fact staging done to protect the murderer. Here we can only speculate, but I seriously doubt the murderer was the one who tried to make this look that a kidnapping gone wrong. [/FONT]
 
The book by ST was the one one I read about the case.

It's always tempting to believe what we initially read about a case, especially when it's written by one of the lead detectives on the case.

So, for quite a while I was going along with his theory. I discounted BR as having any part in things because I knew he had been eliminated from the enquiry, and cleared. That just left the parents. I could tell there had been no intruder.

I assumed ST was correct - that PR had 'snapped' and pushed JBR so hard that it fractured her skull. However, it never sat right with me that PR then strangled her daughter. That was the part that stuck in my craw (whatever that is). And the strangulation came so long after the head blow - that was another puzzling aspect.

Also I found it hard to accept that the R's would not be able to explain away the head blow by saying it had been an accident.

However, that is what ST said, and that is what I believed. Until fairly recently when I started reading other books and internet information.

BR started looking like a very viable suspect - imo far more viable than the parents. It all fit together nicely - the head blow, the strangulation etc.

Then there was that inverview with Dr. Phil, which I think clinched it for me.
Have you read Kolar's book? It would probably push you even more into BDI territory.

I read ST's book first as well. I never thought the bedwetting theory was very good but I figured he was on the right track - Patsy was clearly up to her neck in this. But once you read Kolar's book it's obvious that ST completely overlooked much of Burke's odd behavior. A lot of people discounted Burke at the time, it seemed too heinous for many to consider that a child his age would be involved. And with him being so young it was a sensitive issue - no one (besides the tabloids) was willing to publicly brand a child with that kind of allegation if there was any possibility he could be innocent. And of course a lot of the stuff Kolar talks about was not public knowledge.
With time and distance and Burke now being an adult it's a little easier to digest. I'm not ruling anyone out yet (besides an intruder obviously) but Burke should be counting his blessings that he was able to stay out of the hot seat for so many years.

Remember Mary Lacy's odd statement about wanting to get that exoneration letter out before the end of her term because she feared the Rams would be railroaded otherwise? The case was going nowhere in 2008, what did she think was going to happen? Because it seemed the case had completely fizzled out thanks to her.

I thought she was BSing or being dramatic until I realized the "train" coming down the track was Kolar, and more generally the inability on ML's part to control where the investigation would go after it fell into Garnett's hands. ML gave a lot away with that comment. If there is nothing to implicate the Ramseys in this crime, why do they need all this protection from someone she dismissed as a crackpot for thinking BDI? That 'crackpot' just wanted to subpoena Burke's medical records and re-interview him. What's the harm in that if he's completely uninvolved? Where's the big threat there? Hmm...
 
For arguments sake, here's a BR theory. For me to believe BR did it, he would have to do it not long after the parents went to bed. He wakes the sister up, gets her downstairs and they have some pineapple. He has a plan. It's premeditated. He talks her in to coming downstairs with him to help him get his whittling stuff back. She is scared but she owes him, so he grabs his kids golf club to protect them from the monsters, the one he hit her with 13 days before, and the Torch because it's dark.

He leads the way. They get to the door but she is not sure and it's cold. He goes in the room and proves there's no one there. He closes the door behind her and pulls out the knife he found in the hotpress. The House Maid wasn't as clever as she thought. He had also found the sticks a few days before and, made the ligature and ties after she ratted on him for accidentally hitting her with the club. He has wanted to do this for a while.

Now for the evidence in the basement. The scream, the open window and ties over the head don't seem to mean anything substantial on their own, but they do for me to try and prove he did it before the parents found out. After reading the transcript from the Wolf Trail I realised the couple never missed a trick. The Car, his place, the piss against the wall, the job. Nothing. So how did they miss the lack of footprints in the snow and the window and the grate. They didn't. BR opened the window. BR moved the suitcase. They didn't know he had. I am sure in the panicked moments they didn't ask him if he had abused her, or didn't want to think it either. Did he tell them?

It came to me after reading something Karr said in Thailand. People said he was lying, and he was, but he did know this sick world. I think he had got everything from Tracey about the scene, and from this he worked out the window. He claimed to have done the things, I think Burke could have done.

BR opened the window after tying her hands up and getting her to raise them above her head, he got her up on the suitcase and hooked her up to the latch. This way he could abuse her and she could do nothing. I think he didn't want blood stains so he made sure to wipe her, he didn't want his parents knowing this bit and didn't understand what the Autopsy would show.

I think the scream either came from her being abused or her seeing him pick up the club to crack her on the head. The neighbour was telling the truth about the scream. I think she recanted thinking it may help her innocent neighbours, then changed her mind again feeling they might be guilty.

JBR DNA was not found on the Torch in the kitchen. He never closed the window or moved the empty suitcase back. I think those are the mistakes of a kid and the knots and everything the type a kid might practice and do.

Her back was bruised at the shoulders from his knees. After he knocked her unconscious it took him a little while to get up the nerves to finish her off. He may have checked her pulse and was waiting for her to die, thus the delay between hit and strangulation.

He gets her on the floor and starts to strangle her with his knees dug in to her shoulders. She either comes round and urinates out of fear or after she passes. The carpet underneath gets wet. No blood. When the Mum gets up around two, or he panics and tells her what she did they parents have to think fast. The first thing Dad does is run to the basement. He picks her up and notices the carpet wet and places it outside the door of the room. He carries her upstairs, for all we know he may have fruitlessly tried CPR on the sitting room floor. Would this cause bruising if done just straight after death?

They realise she's gone. Plan B. She writes the note and he gets the sheet and carries her downstairs and places her inside the room leaving the carpet outside. They bring the Torch upstairs and wipe it down. The club is broken, the head and shaft are placed in a drainage pipe for the washing machine as an example. The police wouldn't look there straight away. PR writes note as would never have been so obvious to write down more or less his exact bonus. She is calm but rushing.

If the plan at any time was to say the Window was opened for escape, they knew there was snow there, so all he would have to do is move the grate a little and walk three steps out in the snow and backwards back in and leave the window open. Lou Smit made this up later, they didn't leave the window open on a freezing cold Winter's night, BR did. But why?

The father found the girl and Fleet said he knew where she was, or this was how it appeared. I think he needed to get his hands on her again to put his DNA on the sheet and to put her where they probably brought up from the basement in the first place.

It's just a silly theory, but may explain, the Matt at the door downstairs with the urine having no blood and the no blood in the long johns. The Window is a mistake a panicked kid might make, and the suitcase he either forgot about or didn't think anyone would work out. But I think Karr did oddly enough. I also think abusing her standing up on something, pulling the Long Johns down leaves less chance for the blood to get anywhere. If he abused her on the carpet there would be blood, or with the Long John's fully on. Then he redressed her after he hit her, and pulled her down on to the Carpet. I'd say he never would have expected her to set herself after the fact either, why would he.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Whilst I believe that BR did it, and that he probably had some strange habits, you have to remember that he was just a little boy of almost 10 - not some kind of mastermind super criminal.
 
Whilst I believe that BR did it, and that he probably had some strange habits, you have to remember that he was just a little boy of almost 10 - not some kind of mastermind super criminal.

True. But you still have to be able to explain all the pieces in the basement I believe, and I don't really feel the parents are stupid enough to expect people to believe there's a suitcase, beside an open window, with no footprints in the snow. I can't believe they'd make this mistake. A kid would. The mistake I think they made was the sheet. The sheet didn't have a stain similar to the carpet, so she was wrapped in it afterwards. Why go upstairs after a scream and risk getting a sheet after she's has been murdered. I think they didn't want to stain the floor upstairs when they put her down. He carried her up, she grabbed the sheet quickly and put it under her. They carried it down on her afterward. If you're the killer, and if you can, you're straight out the window. The binds over the head is also odd even for a nine year old because over the head means nothing really. You can still pull your arms down. He'd surely tie them behind her back. And the lack of blood on the carpet, but the urine stain there is difficult to explain if abused where he strangled her?

Just trying to explain the bits I don't understand I suppose, but it is odd to me how Karr's theory fits the evidence so perfectly. I have to wonder if a nine year didn't start his own rumour, something Tracey heard, and Karr picked up on. Did he state in therapy, BR, he saw JBR going down to the basement and someone had a knife? If so, and if it was him, then he may be smarter then everyone gives him credit. He certainly hasn't tripped up to this date anyway.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
BR was probably not particularly smart, just a cunning kid with strange tendencies.

My theory (once more), in a nutshell, is that after eating pineapple in the kitchen, the kids went down to the basement (it doesn't matter why) and BR struck JBR (possibly not meaning to cause the amount of damage that he did). She fell unconscious. BR then dragged her (by the neck of her shirt) across the basement hall to the wine cellar where, later, for reasons of his own, he decided to strangle her.

PR, who had been upstairs packing for the trip, eventually went downstairs to find out what the kids had been up to and discovered her daughter's body. That could be the scream the neighbour heard (if she heard a scream at all).

PR went running upstairs to get JR out of bed. They could see it was too late to save their daughter - she may already have been in rigor by this time. They wrapped her in a blanket, leaving her arms above her head.

They knew how it would look. Just the family in a locked house on Christmas night and the daughter strangled. (They may not have known about the head blow at this time, all they may have seen was the cord around JBR's neck).

They knew they had to save their son from being institutionalized so they had to invent an intruder. They staged some aspects of the murder to look like a crime scene. Patsy went upstairs and wrote the note.

I suspect they hid the body so the police would simply think their daughter had been kidnapped and when the call didn't materialize (from the kidnapper), and the police went away, then they could bring the body out of hiding and leave it in the wine cellar - with a note stating the kidnappers had brought back the body of their daughter, murdered, because the couple had gone against instructions and notified the police.

The police showed no sign of leaving so John panicked. He went down to the basement (his missing time) and moved JBR's body from it's hiding place (either his car or a crawl space in the basement) and left it in the wine cellar.

Then, as we know, later at 1pm JR 'discovered' the body.

My theory may still need a bit of work, but that's basically it. It accounts for the body still being in the house AND a ransom note.
 
BR was probably not particularly smart, just a cunning kid with strange tendencies.

My theory (once more), in a nutshell, is that after eating pineapple in the kitchen, the kids went down to the basement (it doesn't matter why) and BR struck JBR (possibly not meaning to cause the amount of damage that he did). She fell unconscious. BR then dragged her across the basement hall to the wine cellar where, later, for reasons of his own, he decided to strangle her.

PR, who had been upstairs packing for the trip, eventually went downstairs to find out what the kids had been up to and discovered her daughter's body. That could be the scream the neighbour heard (if she heard a scream at all).

PR went running upstairs to get JR out of bed. They could see it was too late to save their daughter - she may already have been in rigor by this time. They wrapped her in a blanket, leaving her arms above her head.

They knew how it would look. Just the family in a locked house on Christmas night and the daughter strangled. (They may not have known about the head blow at this time, all they may have seen was the cord around JBR's neck).

They knew they had to save their son from being institutionalized so they had to invent an intruder. They staged some aspects of the murder to look like a crime scene. Patsy went upstairs and wrote the note.

I suspect they hid the body so the police would simply think their daughter had been kidnapped and when the call didn't materialize (from the kidnapper), and the police went away, then they could bring the body out of hiding and leave it in the wine cellar - with a note stating the kidnappers had brought back the body of their daughter, murdered, because the couple had gone against instructions and notified the police.

The police showed no sign of leaving so John panicked. He went down to the basement (his missing time) and moved JBR's body from it's hiding place (either his car or a crawl space in the basement) and left it in the wine cellar.

Then, as we know, later at 1pm JR 'discovered' the body.

My theory may still need a bit of work, but that's basically it. It accounts for the body still being in the house AND a ransom note.

The one big problem is you would expect a thorough search by the police first. What they did was not professional or normal. And they would leave someone with the family as they work shifts anyway. They would want to be there in case anyone called. I think the way the place was when they called the police was the way they expected the police to start from.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
The one big problem is you would expect a thorough search by the police first. What they did was not professional or normal. And they would leave someone with the family as they work shifts anyway. They would want to be there in case anyone called. I think the way the place was when they called the police was the way they expected the police to start from.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A cursory search was made, but remember the police were told this was a kidnapping so they would assume the child had been taken from the premises.

Her bedroom would have been thought to be the crime scene so of course should have been cordoned off immediately, but wasn't.

The police really had no need to search the entire house. All they were looking for was the point of entry and exit the 'kidnapper' would have used.
 
I suspect they hid the body so the police would simply think their daughter had been kidnapped and when the call didn't materialize (from the kidnapper), and the police went away, then they could bring the body out of hiding and leave it in the wine cellar - with a note stating the kidnappers had brought back the body of their daughter, murdered, because the couple had gone against instructions and notified the police.

The police showed no sign of leaving so John panicked. He went down to the basement (his missing time) and moved JBR's body from it's hiding place (either his car or a crawl space in the basement) and left it in the wine cellar.
I don't think they could have reasonably expected the cops would just leave because the "kidnapper" never called. There was still a missing 6 year old. And as long as JBR remained kidnapped, I would expect at a minimum that a detail would be posted to protect the family in case the abductor or the remainder of the foreign faction returned. I would also expect the FBI would order a more comprehensive search of the house for clues after kicking everyone out. How would the kidnapper get back in especially with media attention and nosy neighbors about?

My guess is the hiding of the body was simply to delay things, allow Burke to get out of the house and away from the questions of LE, and enable the invited friends to contaminate the crime scene.
 
I don't think they could have reasonably expected the cops would just leave because the "kidnapper" never called. There was still a missing 6 year old. And as long as JBR remained kidnapped, I would expect at a minimum that a detail would be posted to protect the family in case the abductor or the remainder of the foreign faction returned. I would also expect the FBI would order a more comprehensive search of the house for clues after kicking everyone out. How would the kidnapper get back in especially with media attention and nosy neighbors about?

My guess is the hiding of the body was simply to delay things, allow Burke to get out of the house and away from the questions of LE, and enable the invited friends to contaminate the crime scene.

There is no doubt they made sure everything was contaminated. Anyone in their right mind would go across the road to a neighbour with Burke, and demand police check everything. They would also demand someone stay when they arrived and try and trace or record a call. They would bang on every door to ask if they noticed a car or van and be outside checking for footprints and tyre marks. You'd be angry with the lack of effort not patting people on the back for turning up and driving off.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
A cursory search was made, but remember the police were told this was a kidnapping so they would assume the child had been taken from the premises.

Her bedroom would have been thought to be the crime scene so of course should have been cordoned off immediately, but wasn't.

The police really had no need to search the entire house. All they were looking for was the point of entry and exit the 'kidnapper' would have used.
The FBI would have known that the whole house was in need of cordoning off and searching, especially given that the note was in the kitchen and they did not know how the kidnapper got in and out. The body was found before they got involved and local LE rejected their help. The fact that the Boulder PD had no clue how critical the securing of the entire house was is the main reason we are still talking about this case today.
 
There is no doubt they made sure everything was contaminated. Anyone in their right mind would go across the road to a neighbour with Burke, and demand police check everything. They would also demand someone stay when they arrived and try and trace or record a call. They would bang on every door to ask if they noticed a car or van and be outside checking for footprints and tyre marks. You'd be angry with the lack of effort not patting people on the back for turning up and driving off.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think the police did set up a recording device on the phone.

Unfortunately the police did not have the resources on the 26th December otherwise I think everything would have been done differently.

The R's were lucky in that respect.
 
true. But you still have to be able to explain all the pieces in the basement i believe, and i don't really feel the parents are stupid enough to expect people to believe there's a suitcase, beside an open window, with no footprints in the snow. I can't believe they'd make this mistake. A kid would. The mistake i think they made was the sheet. The sheet didn't have a stain similar to the carpet, so she was wrapped in it afterwards. Why go upstairs after a scream and risk getting a sheet after she's has been murdered. I think they didn't want to stain the floor upstairs when they put her down. he carried her up, she grabbed the sheet quickly and put it under her. They carried it down on her afterward. If you're the killer, and if you can, you're straight out the window. The binds over the head is also odd even for a nine year old because over the head means nothing really. you can still pull your arms down. He'd surely tie them behind her back. And the lack of blood on the carpet, but the urine stain there is difficult to explain if abused where he strangled her?

Just trying to explain the bits i don't understand i suppose, but it is odd to me how karr's theory fits the evidence so perfectly. I have to wonder if a nine year didn't start his own rumour, something tracey heard, and karr picked up on. Did he state in therapy, br, he saw jbr going down to the basement and someone had a knife? If so, and if it was him, then he may be smarter then everyone gives him credit. He certainly hasn't tripped up to this date anyway.

Sent from my ipad using tapatalk
BBM...
imo:
We can explain the suitcase as irrelevant because it was already there and it's probably not directly related to this case in any way.
I doubt that JBR was carried upstairs.. but then, I doubt that JR was in on any of this. It was a blanket that was in the WR where JBR was found. We don't really know when or how it got there.
The position of the arms over the head - JBR would not have been able to move them. She was dead.
The lack of blood on the carpet - blood was wiped from her thigh and there was negligible bleeding thereafter.
Karr's theory fits because it was 10 years after the murder, much of what happened was known, and Tracey fed him details (either inadvertently or purposefully).
 
The one big problem is you would expect a thorough search by the police first. What they did was not professional or normal. And they would leave someone with the family as they work shifts anyway. They would want to be there in case anyone called. I think the way the place was when they called the police was the way they expected the police to start from.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
BBM
You do know that BPD did leave someone with the family, right?

Of course, Linda Arndt. I have no words. Yeah, I do. I have many words.
Amateur
Inept
Incompetent
Unprepared
Unqualified
and that's just a good start.

She also tried to deflect all responsibility
 
My theory (once more), in a nutshell, is that after eating pineapple in the kitchen, the kids went down to the basement (it doesn't matter why) and BR struck JBR (possibly not meaning to cause the amount of damage that he did). She fell unconscious. BR then dragged her (by the neck of her shirt) across the basement hall to the wine cellar where, later, for reasons of his own, he decided to strangle her.

The cord with the handle placed around her neck would have been an effective way of dragging an unconscious body by someone who couldn't carry her ..... maybe.
 
BBM
You do know that BPD did leave someone with the family, right?

Of course, Linda Arndt. I have no words. Yeah, I do. I have many words.
Amateur
Inept
Incompetent
Unprepared
Unqualified
and that's just a good start.

She also tried to deflect all responsibility

My family were in LE, I refused a call up after certain interviews for many different reasons. You do not turn up to a crime scene and not go through the crime scene. The fact is you are thought to go through the crime scene to make sure the allegation is not a hoax. Policing costs money. The police officers would do it on Auto pilot. The reason they didn't here had nothing to do with quality of policing but more to do with political and financial perception. They simply thought there was no reason for these people of wealth to lie. It was their first of many mistakes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
My family were in LE, I refused a call up after certain interviews for many different reasons. You do not turn up to a crime scene and not go through the crime scene. The fact is you are thought to go through the crime scene to make sure the allegation is not a hoax. Policing costs money. The police officers would do it on Auto pilot. The reason they didn't here had nothing to do with quality of policing but more to do with political and financial perception. They simply thought there was no reason for these people of wealth to lie. It was their first of many mistakes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
BBM
It was both - quality and influence. Handling those people as "special" was a huge mistake. Putting a rookie in charge of the scene was equally as bad. Had those people been poor folk, things would have been much different. But would BPD still have made terrible mistakes? Probably.

Zero respect for Arndt. I wouldn't even hire her to pet-sit my bird, and she's in a cage.

Everybody except JR and PR should have been removed from that house (yes, including the advocates).
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...A-12-Days-of-JonBenet&p=12909025#post12909025

4ba47d12dc0996fcd0133e2c64724fe5.jpg


For more about her, please read:
Linda Arndt speaks (with forked tongue)
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?6954-Linda-Arndt-speaks-(with-forked-tongue)
 
Sherlock, one thing I noticed that features in your theory is the lack of footprints in the snow. If you look at pictures of the scene from that morning you can see that the snow was patchy. The window well is right up against the brick patio & the brick did not have snow on it (though I've heard there was some frost, idk if it was on the walkways or not)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think the police did set up a recording device on the phone.

Unfortunately the police did not have the resources on the 26th December otherwise I think everything would have been done differently.

The R's were lucky in that respect.
per the Bonita Papers:

"Arndt met with John Ramsey, explained the procedure for the telephone "trap", and asked permission to also hook up the portable tape recorder she had retrieved from the police department. She instructed him on using the tape recorder should a call come in from the kidnappers. During this discussion with John he was able to carry on a conversation, and was focused and articulate with his words. He sometimes even smiled and joked."

 
Sherlock, one thing I noticed that features in your theory is the lack of footprints in the snow. If you look at pictures of the scene from that morning you can see that the snow was patchy. The window well is right up against the brick patio & the brick did not have snow on it (though I've heard there was some frost, idk if it was on the walkways or not)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very good point but someone posted a photo of the crime scene early morning and it was covered by the grate. All they had to do was move the grate and walk three feet. Go back in their foot prints and no one would have known any different. In this snow you could photo it but a mould would have been very difficult.

Snow impression wax must be a new discovery. It is all related to heat creating the mould. Wax provides an insulating medium between the heat-generating casting material and the surrounding snow. Not sure you could even do it back then. So any footprints would have created doubt unless someone caught you doing it. Leave the grate slightly to one side....




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
63
Guests online
2,031
Total visitors
2,094

Forum statistics

Threads
601,798
Messages
18,130,033
Members
231,145
Latest member
alicat3
Back
Top