Burke Ramsey Files 750 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against CBS

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
With all the lawsuits Burke has already been a participant and claimed to have won money it's significant to note he has yet to spend a nickel looking for the killer of Jonbenet via investigational efforts or rewards.

No kidding. Why don't they just put a cash register on her grave?
 
Thanks Tadpole, Tortoise, everyone. Lin Wood has to be a little bit nervous, I'd imagine, right? I get he has to put this facade, but does he really want BR to be deposed?

It does seem odd that CBS was trying to get the case dismissed. Perhaps "odd" is the wrong word; maybe "disappointing" is more accurate; albeit expected and understandable, for their standpoint.
 
In my original theory I never mentioned a footprint, or a piece of glass.

In your irrelevant but daily hounding of any opinion I have, you cross stories constantly.

I have said at least ten times I believe the mother did, and you know this. The pee size point was for someone else, based on the moving of the suitcase.

I simply put a theory out there in relation to Burke to incorporate the window, the blood, the urine, the hands above the head and the suitcase. <modsnip>


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm new here. I'm only on p38, and I know I should finish reading before commenting, but this is driving me crazy: If JB was hung by her hands, then I would expect that we would see more obvious trauma on her wrists. Also, she was most likely not given cpr as none of her ribs were broken or showed signs of bruising.

Can we rule this out with math? If JB was close to 3feet tall, and the suitcase was so tall and the window was so high, was there really room for this hanging? Would the rope hold under the weight and would the suitcase have fallen? This really seems too adult a situation to my mind, it sounds more like something a pedophile would dream up. Karr was in Thailand, a grown adult, a pedophile and had access to pedophile literature. I'm really not impressed to hear his name mentioned in connection to what a child might have done during a fit of sibling rivalry. I support BDI, but that is going too far. Please remember that pedophiles such as Karr have done their own tampering with this case, and have even inserted themselves falsely into this narrative.
 
I'm new here. I'm only on p38, and I know I should finish reading before commenting, but this is driving me crazy: If JB was hung by her hands, then I would expect that we would see more obvious trauma on her wrists. Also, she was most likely not given cpr as none of her ribs were broken or showed signs of bruising.
[Snip]
Correct and Correct. Nice to see you're thinking about CPR. Not everyone will focus on that detail.

Don't worry about being new. We all get facts mixed-up or wrong. Wait till you start going down the BDI, PDI or JDI paths and you discover those pesky little road blocks.
 
Maybe CBS has evidence or witness and they really want to go to court. There was something cut from the special. Can you imagine the ratings from the trial?

The program was cut by 30 minutes, what is that 20 considering commercials? Could there be a smoking gun?

My guess is the science of doll fibers linking John and Patsy Ramsey assisted by Alex Hunter to cover up the heinous events that happened in the Ramsey family that night.
 
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31572813/defamation-suit-jonbenet-ramsey


Judge won't dismiss $750M defamation suit by JonBenet Ramsey's brother

By Charlie Brennan


01/05/2018


"In addition to the two suits filed by Burke Ramsey against both CBS and separately against Spitz, John Ramsey, JonBenet's father, also filed a defamation suit in October against CBS and the other defendants also targeted by Burke Ramsey.

CBS has countered with a motion to dismiss John Ramsey's suit, but that motion has yet to be argued."
Just a quick note to say THANKS, Tad, for all the updates. I appreciate how much you contribute to the forum by keeping us up-to-date.

As for those speculating that this latest news is great for Woodie, or great for CBS -- it's nothing more than typical in a large lawsuit. The defendant nearly always files a motion to dismiss, and the judge nearly always denies their motion. Don't try to read too much into this courtroom tactic, and don't be surprised if CBS next files a motion for summary judgment (http://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-is-a-motion-to-dismiss/) -- which will also most likely be denied.
 
http://www.westword.com/news/jonben...-his-750-million-cbs-lawsuit-lives-on-9863717

JonBenét Family Lawyer Says Lawsuit Rulings "Pave the Way for Justice"

January 9, 2018

"A separate $750 million lawsuit against CBS followed, and while Spitz and the network asked that the cases be tossed, Michigan Judge David Groner has now allowed each to move forward in what Ramsey family attorney Lin Wood sees as a much larger victory than representatives for CBS are willing to acknowledge.

"CBS&#8217; public relations efforts to downplay the significance of the ruling are borderline laughable," maintains Wood, corresponding via email."
 
Posturing. Wood really wants BR and JR to be deposed? That is laughable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Are there any attorneys here at Websleuths who can give an opinion on the latest ruling and what it means for the case? It would be interesting to know what they think. Very sadly I think CBS is going to be writing a very large cheque. I am sure they have insurance for this kind of lawsuit but it could impact the way documentaries are made and shown on tv about real life crimes from now on.
 
http://www.westword.com/news/jonben...-his-750-million-cbs-lawsuit-lives-on-9863717

"There is a pending motion to dismiss in John&#8217;s case against CBS based essentially on the same grounds as the motions filed in Burke&#8217;s cases," Wood points out. "So the rulings by Judge Groner are predictive that the motion in John&#8217;s case will also be denied."

Beyond CBS, the defendants named in the John Ramsey suit are Critical Content, the company that produced the docuseries, as well as Spitz, Jim Clemente, Laura Richards, Stanley Burke, James Fitzgerald, Henry Lee and James Kolar, who served as so-called investigators on the program. Kolar also wrote Foreign Faction, a book about the JonBenét slaying that the suit portrays as the blueprint for the show.

"CBS perpetrated a fraud upon the public," a passage from the complaint reads. "Instead of being a documentary based on a new and legitimate investigation by a team of qualified and unbiased experts, The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey was a fictional crime show based primarily on a preconceived storyline scripted in the self-published and commercially unsuccessful book Foreign Faction, written by Defendant James Kolar and self-published in 2012."


Another section maintains that "Defendants&#8217; accusation that John covered-up that Burke killed JonBenét was not based on a complete investigation revealing truthful facts, new witnesses, new evidence or new theories. Instead, Defendants consciously built their Documentary on an illegitimate and unfounded investigation, false and omitted facts, old witnesses, old evidence and old theories."

Similar claims appear in the Burke Ramsey lawsuits, and Wood isn't surprised that they survived double-headed dismissal motions."
 
http://www.westword.com/news/colorados-population-boom-might-add-congressional-seat-9828644

"I have always believed that Burke has a very strong case against CBS and Spitz," he allows. "I am confident that with each deposition taken, his case will only grow stronger. What went on behind the scenes of this 'docu-series' will be fascinating to learn and damning of CBS when exposed to the public. This was a reckless grab by CBS for money and ratings at the expense of the reputation of an innocent young man."

Groner's opinion increases the odds that CBS and Spitz will settle with Burke (and John) rather than take part in a trial that would presumably reveal the behind-the-scenes sausage-making involved in The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey and offer further insight into a tragic mystery that's remained fascinating to a significant portion of the public for more than two decades.

Wood, for his part, sees the latest development as "a flashing warning signal to other members of the media who seek to profit by relying on 'opinions' of guilt to create sensational story lines in unsolved cases of public interest."
 
Thanks for the update Tad!

Read closely the last two updates (esp. the public statements made by a certain lawyer) - and you might see what I see.

Think back and reflect on the way the R's handled their own version of "p-u-b-l-I-c r-e-l-a-t-I-o-n-s" and compare it to these big court cases which are barely "off the ground" and certainly not airborne yet. Think.

Think some more. Back in the late 90's the public was not as smart as they are now, not about crime cases, certainly not about child abuse or endangerment, and absolutely not as smart as "public" is now about legal maneuverings. Isn't that true?

I watch for blatant narcissistic maneuvers documented in the media. It can be very entertaining as long as one can keep a distance from it, watch from afar.

This/these cases seem to promise some good entertainment, but it will certainly slow down the real understanding necessary to help prevent tragedies like this, in fact it might escalate the negatives.

Watch closely. Be patient. Skip the commercials.
 
https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/...s/how-long-will-my-defamation-claim-take.html

How Long Will My Defamation Claim Take?

"The discovery phase usually lasts from six to 12 months following the lawsuit’s filing, and a defamation case can be settled at any point over that timeline. The case can also be dismissed at this stage if the defendant files a "motion for summary judgment," and the court grants it."

...

"The mediation process itself may last between a few hours and a couple of days."

...

"Few defamation cases reach the trial stage. A trial is really an expensive and time-consuming last resort after all other attempts at resolution have failed. Parties sometimes wait as long as two years or more before their case gets to trial."
 
https://peterboyles.podbean.com/e/a-closer-look-at-the-ramsey-lawsuit-jan-9-2018-hr-2/

A Closer Look At The Ramsey Lawsuit - Jan 9, 2018 - Hr 2


January 9, 2018


Westword's Alan Prendergast who has followed the case for many years discusses the possibility of CBS going to trial in the Ramsey lawsuit.

@4:52

@7:55

AP: I was always sort of puzzled
you know,
I wondered if CBS, you know,
did this thinking this would be a good way to get
to depositions and to get further journalism out of it.
 
QUOTE=Tadpole12;13855889]http://www.westword.com/news/jonben...-his-750-million-cbs-lawsuit-lives-on-9863717

JonBenét Family Lawyer Says Lawsuit Rulings "Pave the Way for Justice"[/QUOTE]

"Oh dear. Another Freudian slip! Someone killed our daughter in our own home, law enforcement came after us, our lives have been turned upside down, but gee if we can only get a lucrative settlement from CBS, justice will be restored." And what about 'justice' for JBR? Will they ever shut up about themselves and remember the little girl who should be an adult right now, with maybe children of her own?

The dumbest thing they can do is place this in the hands of the public. Each member of the jury will ponder if they would also be sued for taking a gander at what they helped become one of the most infamous murders in America. JFK, Marilyn Monroe. And since JR had a collection of true crime novels that were noticed by the investigators, then he has no choice but to admit on the witness stand that he has also speculated on the people involved in murders and thus show that he does not believe mere speculation nor private investigation proves malice.

A parent is going to wonder what child was in their home on Christmas eve if that wasn't BR on the 911 call. No one can mistake that what was said to him appears to be dissmissive and disciplinary in tone. The parents sent their child to bed where they were certain he would be safe, despite the fact that the other child had been 'kidnapped' from her bedroom hours before. BR said he felt safe in his room, but the follow up question Phil should have asked why was he felt safe in his room and unsafe everywhere else. Maybe this shows previous abuse or dysfunction and the child had learned to stay silent. BR went on to say that maybe the killer was still in the house, and maybe his father was chasing that person away with a gun. And compare that to LA's description of a very distracted father. In the police interrogation room--PR claimed the house was so big that they could look for weeks and not find the killer. And yet that morning, neither parent was concerned that a murderer was still in their home. They did not hold their child to them during the 911 call or anytime that morning during the police presence. They preferred adult company. And PR was not concerned that her second child could be grabbed from his bed--and despite telling us now that he was thought there was a kidnapper in his home, and conjecturing the situation was serious enough to grab a gun--child BR was perfectly content to be alone in his bedroom. No monsters or murderers or kidnappers in his closet that needed mommy to scare away. Why didn't he want his mommy with him and why was the mommy not concerned about him? If we have any indication that BR was neglected while his sister was showered with love, their actions that morning just might be it.

Another point is that ignoring a child is a form of punishment used by narcissistic parents. Were they punishing him?

The only reason to lie about Burke being asleep was to tuck him away from the police and give him an alibi, and not look like they were neglectful of him while their other child was missing.

I was a child overseas when the murder happened, so I missed much of the chaos. I encountered ST's book by accident a decade or so ago. What I remember most is that he was concerned about the real child, and not the beauty queen. I do not believe the investigators involved would harm BR out of malice. Indeed, both children seemed to show symptoms of abuse, so they initially did not think of the unthinkable idea of a child killing their sibling, because they understood he had special needs and felt the other stuff were also symptoms of child abuse.

BR's records are very key here for many reasons. The Skat shows that BR may have been unable to communicate his upset feelings. You don't have to work with severely handicapped people for long before you find someone smearing their poop It isn't always a sign of psychopathy. It could be that a grown man who can't speak or clean himself has no other way of communicating. What was BR's mental health? Was he abused? If he was responsible for sexually abusing JBR, then it's very likely that he was first sexually abused by someone else. Was he mentally ill or just special needs? To the contrary, jealousy is a very real emotion in 1st born children. Imagine this kid had special needs and was given not just the attention of a first born, but also extra attention for his needs. How did he react to little sister, and a daily routine that was punctuated by being forced to be in the background (in his room?) while little sister got all the attention, new clothes, applause, pictures, etc.? How did he cope with this? Was he in therapy? What did his therapists say? Was there pressure placed on the parents to stop the pageants or anything that would disrupt his stable home? We don't know. As for his mental health today, this is more than social awkwardness the way he speaks of his sister's death and the events of that day. We have never seen him cry or be sober about the death actually happening. He said he grew up and talked to her in a relationship where he could control her and she had no voice. It was asked on the "What did LA know" board about the status of the software engineering career. I have spent the last 3 months looking into a position. I can tell you that the career field is growing but I have been warned that the job is very difficult. They have pilots who struggle with this job, so they don't want to hire someone who quits halfway through the training. However, on the other side, is a lucrative career. I just don't see BR having the mental fortitude for such a job, but if someone wanted to hide the origin of their money, and they had the power to keep secrets, then such a career is a great way to explain that money.

Judging from the tones of a few posters, I'm not entirely sure that some are not actually trolls for the family. They have always controlled the narrative, and the internet meant that they had completely lost control. A year or so ago, they (IMO) planted the story to the tabloids that the killer was caught and was in jail. They claimed the police could not charge him because they had signed some contract with him that he could never be charged for the murder of JB. What a crock of manure. The IDI theory falls apart the longer this goes on, partly aided by the fact that no one has been caught, and by the sheer desperation to find anyone (JMK) (alleged unknown arrested pedophile in Boulder, Colorado), no matter how ridiculous to fit the crime. The way the IDI described the RN as mere but super, duper rare handwriting was bizarre. I saw evidence the person had learned calligraphy at some point and thought, my God, that could mean I killed her! Huh. I was a child overseas. The RDI experts show not just calligraphy that anyone could have scribbled, but unique identifiers to PR. It's even more bizarre to hear J&P claim it looks nothing like her writing! I'm also wondering if there might also be an attempt to steer the blame back onto PR, as she's the only one who can't be punished for anything now in any way (obstruction, false reports, perjury, therapy etc.).

I do not believe JB injured herself masturbating. How many men were in her life? Thanks to pageants, we'll never know. A little girl gets an itch, she scratchs, it feels good so she pays attention, and the she gets distracted by toys. There seems to be no indication of a mental illness or obsession with sex at such a young age as to cause herself damage. There were 3 males in the house: a 50 year old man who didn't mind seeing his daughter sexualized, the teenager that has been the only R to successfully dissapear and remove himself from this case, and a child whose developmental issues are suspect. And people want to give the sexual obsession to her? You can't assign sexual knowledge to a child without explaining where it came from, which eventually leads back to abuse or exposure to adult topics. And if she was so sore from constant infections, and whatever PR was doing to her, it's very unlikely that the child would have found much pleasure in masturbation. A grown woman may have a reason or two to continue painful sex, but a child does not. As for the knots, I have female friends who lead their children's boyscout meetings. IMO, anyone could have tied those knots. The underwear: if your child often wet themselves, then you might pick up an extra pair or two from a baby sitter or family friend due to an unsceduled emergency. We have no proof those underwear were purchased by the R's to begin with.

I believed ST's theory simply because I didn't know much more back then, and because he comes across as sincere, at least in the book. But from looking at the evidence that has been gathered here (thanks, all), I do believe that BDI. The RN was written by PR, but possibly with help from JR or at least his true crime books/movies.

As for JR's demeanor on that morning. Well, what if they originally staged the kidnapping, but not the murder. Cue Patsy something to the effect of, "This house is so big you could look for weeks for the intruder." What if that was what they were counting on? What if they only hid the body, hoping to bury her somewhere later (not unlike Caylee Anthony case) or drop her somewhere where she could be found? What if JR panicked when the police continued to be there? Did he stage the murder and possible sex assault? And if there was only 1 police officer in the house, and most of his neighbors were in his house---and since he's admitted to climbing in and out of a window or two---did he leave the house? Did anyone meet him at a window, take anything away? Thinking of the art of distraction, are we only looking at the part of the house they wanted us to see?

I saw that JR filed the lawsuit and I wondered if BR's mental health is so great, why he couldn't just file. Then I noticed it was 2 different suits. Why? Why not file together? Why waste the tax payer money? This is often a tactic of what is called a paper terrorist. These are people who overload the courts with paperwork and they have no desire to win fairly, they either want to win by default or to scare their target. Why is JR involved at all, and why did he wait to file for himself? It looks like he was protecting BR still, and decided to file as an afterthought. Is JR still controlling and directing his life, and if so, what does that say about BR's mental health, and his future once JR dies?
 
QUOTE=Tadpole12;13855889]http://www.westword.com/news/jonben...-his-750-million-cbs-lawsuit-lives-on-9863717

JonBenét Family Lawyer Says Lawsuit Rulings "Pave the Way for Justice"

"Oh dear. Another Freudian slip! Someone killed our daughter in our own home, law enforcement came after us, our lives have been turned upside down, but gee if we can only get a lucrative settlement from CBS, justice will be restored." And what about 'justice' for JBR? Will they ever shut up about themselves and remember the little girl who should be an adult right now, with maybe children of her own?

The dumbest thing they can do is place this in the hands of the public. Each member of the jury will ponder if they would also be sued for taking a gander at what they helped become one of the most infamous murders in America.

A parent is going to wonder what child was in their home on Christmas eve if that wasn't BR on the 911 call. No one can mistake that what was said to him appears to be dissmissive and disciplinary in tone. The parents sent their child to bed where they were certain he would be safe, despite the fact that the other child had been 'kidnapped' from her bedroom hours before. BR said he felt safe in his room, but the follow up question Phil should have asked why was he felt safe in his room and unsafe everywhere else. Maybe this shows previous abuse or dysfunction and the child had learned to stay silent. BR went on to say that maybe the killer was still in the house, and maybe his father was chasing that person away with a gun. And compare that to LA's description of a very distracted father. In the police interrogation room--PR claimed the house was so big that they could look for weeks and not find the killer. And yet that morning, neither parent was concerned that a murderer was still in their home. They did not hold their child to them during the 911 call or anytime that morning during the police presence. They preferred adult company. And PR was not concerned that her second child could be grabbed from his bed--and despite telling us now that he was thought there was a kidnapper in his home, and conjecturing the situation was serious enough to grab a gun--child BR was perfectly content to be alone in his bedroom. No monsters or murderers or kidnappers in his closet that needed mommy to scare away. Why didn't he want his mommy with him and why was the mommy not concerned about him? If we have any indication that BR was neglected while his sister was showered with love, their actions that morning just might be it.

Another point is that ignoring a child is a form of punishment used by narcissistic parents. Were they punishing him?

The only reason to lie about Burke being asleep was to tuck him away from the police and give him an alibi, and not look like they were neglectful of him while their other child was missing.

I was a child overseas when the murder happened, so I missed much of the chaos. I encountered ST's book by accident a decade or so ago. What I remember most is that he was concerned about the real child, and not the beauty queen. I do not believe the investigators involved would harm BR out of malice. Indeed, both children seemed to show symptoms of abuse, so they initially did not think of the unthinkable idea of a child killing their sibling, because they understood he had special needs and felt the other stuff were also symptoms of child abuse.

BR's records are very key here for many reasons. The Skat shows that BR may have been unable to communicate his upset feelings. You don't have to work with severely handicapped people for long before you find someone smearing their poop It isn't always a sign of psychopathy. It could be that a grown man who can't speak or clean himself has no other way of communicating. What was BR's mental health? Was he abused? If he was responsible for sexually abusing JBR, then it's very likely that he was first sexually abused by someone else. Was he mentally ill or just special needs? To the contrary, jealousy is a very real emotion in 1st born children. Imagine this kid had special needs and was given not just the attention of a first born, but also extra attention for his needs. How did he react to little sister, and a daily routine that was punctuated by being forced to be in the background (in his room?) while little sister got all the attention, new clothes, applause, pictures, etc.? How did he cope with this? Was he in therapy? What did his therapists say? Was there pressure placed on the parents to stop the pageants or anything that would disrupt his stable home? We don't know. As for his mental health today, this is more than social awkwardness the way he speaks of his sister's death and the events of that day. We have never seen him cry or be sober about the death actually happening. He said he grew up and talked to her in a relationship where he could control her and she had no voice. It was asked on the "What did LA know" board about the status of the software engineering career. I have spent the last 3 months looking into a position. I can tell you that the career field is growing but I have been warned that the job is very difficult. They have pilots who struggle with this job, so they don't want to hire someone who quits halfway through the training. However, on the other side, is a lucrative career. I just don't see BR having the mental fortitude for such a job, but if someone wanted to hide the origin of their money, and they had the power to keep secrets, then such a career is a great way to explain that money.

Judging from the tones of a few posters, I'm not entirely sure that some are not actually trolls for the family. They have always controlled the narrative, and the internet meant that they had completely lost control. A year or so ago, they (IMO) planted the story to the tabloids that the killer was caught and was in jail. They claimed the police could not charge him because he had signed some contract with him that he could never be charged for the murder of JB. What a crock of manure. The IDI theory falls apart the longer this goes on, partly aided by the fact that no one has been caught, and by the sheer desperation to find anyone (JMK) (alleged unknown arrested pedophile in B, Colorado), no matter how ridiculous to fit the crime. The way the IDI described the RN as mere but super, duper rare handwriting was bizarre. I saw evidence the person had learned calligraphy at some point and thought, my God, that could mean I killed her! Huh. I was a child overseas. The RDI experts show not just calligraphy that anyone could have scribbled, but unique identifiers to PR. It's even more bizarre to hear J&P claim it looks nothing like her writing! I'm also wondering if there might also be an attempt to steer the blame back onto PR, as she's the only one who can't be punished for anything now in any way (obstruction, false reports, perjury, therapy etc.).

I believed ST's theory simply because I didn't know much more back then, and because he comes across as sincere, at least in the book. But from looking at the evidence that has been gathered here (thanks, all), I do believe that BDI. The RN was written by PR, but possibly with help from JR or at least his true crime books/movies.

As for JR's demeanor on that morning. Well, what if they originally staged the kidnapping, but not the murder. Cue Patsy something to the effect of, "This house is so big you could look for weeks for the intruder." What if that was what they were counting on? What if they only hid the body, hoping to bury her somewhere later (not unlike Caylee Anthony case) or drop her somewhere where she could be found? What if JR panicked when the police continued to be there? Did he stage the murder and possible sex assault? And if there was only 1 police officer in the house, and most of his neighbors were in his house---and since he's admitted to climbing in and out of a window or two---did he leave the house?

I saw that JR filed the lawsuit and I wondered if BR's mental health is so great, why he couldn't just file. Then I noticed it was 2 different suits. Why? Why not file together? Why waste the tax payer money? This is often a tactic of what is called a paper terrorist. These are people who overload the courts with paperwork and they have no desire to win fairly, they either want to win by default or to scare their target. Why is JR involved at all, and why did he wait to file for himself? It looks like he was protecting BR still, and decided to file as an afterthought. Is JR still controlling and directing his life, and if so, what does that say about BR's mental health, and his future once JR dies?[/QUOTE]

Bravo!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
redpears,
I saw that JR filed the lawsuit and I wondered if BR's mental health is so great, why he couldn't just file. Then I noticed it was 2 different suits. Why? Why not file together? Why waste the tax payer money? This is often a tactic of what is called a paper terrorist. These are people who overload the courts with paperwork and they have no desire to win fairly, they either want to win by default or to scare their target. Why is JR involved at all, and why did he wait to file for himself? It looks like he was protecting BR still, and decided to file as an afterthought. Is JR still controlling and directing his life, and if so, what does that say about BR's mental health, and his future once JR dies?
Insightful and interesting post.

The case is patently BDI. The R's staging fooled everyone, possibly including Steve Thomas, then again he revised his Theory for publication.

JR is the puppet master extraordinaire, to the point the case could be JDI, the lawsuits are premptive warnings to other media corporations who wish to speculate on who killed JonBenet?

Once JR dies it will be open season on him and his estate, since the deceased cannot be defamed.

At this point if the cold case status is not revoked or the evidence cages on the case are not opened up to public scrutiny then we will all know the case is definitely BDI !

.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
68
Guests online
150
Total visitors
218

Forum statistics

Threads
608,900
Messages
18,247,430
Members
234,495
Latest member
Indy786
Back
Top