Burlap and Forensics

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I'm trying to remember if the child was found in the burlap sacks?

What bugs me is where were some of her remains located prior to being dumped later at the site of the other victims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_serial_killer
There was never any indication that any body parts were dumped there later. As a matter of fact, it was well documented that one of the sets of remains was there so long that it had a TREE growing through it!
 
There was never any indication that any body parts were dumped there later. As a matter of fact, it was well documented that one of the sets of remains was there so long that it had a TREE growing through it!
:eek: a tree!
Well this of course is from wikipedia but this is what I was referring to.

  • "Jessica Taylor, 20, most recently of Manhattan, went missing in July, 2003. On July 26, 2003, her naked torso, chopped in pieces and missing its head and hands, was discovered 45 miles east of Gilgo Beach in Manorville, New York;[37] these remains were identified by DNA analysis later that year.[38] On May 9, 2011, it was reported that the remains of a skull, a pair of hands, and a forearm found on March 29 at Gilgo belonged to Taylor.[39][40] She had worked in Washington, D.C., and Manhattan as a prostitute.[5][41] The remains of "Jane Doe No. 6" were also found both in Manorville (torso) and on Gilgo Beach (head, hands and foot).[42]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_serial_killer
 
I wonder if he was keeping trophies? But maybe someone came into his life like a girlfriend and he had to get rid of the evidence. I doubt they will ever say at this time, if the body parts were weathered to the same extent. That might be one of those nuggets the LE keep to themselves.
 
If they were "wrapped" in burlap and not inside the bags, then that could be something worth pondering.
Why did they only wrap them? Was this person (LISK) normally seen with burlap in his truck? Was his job and truck identifiable as someone who uses burlap often? Like a seafood or landscaping business for example.
In other words, no one would question piles of burlap in the bed of his truck.

.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_serial_killer

Quoting myself for more precise meaning.
When I say this I mean for example, if he went through toll booths or was pulled over he wouldn't be concerned about being caught with a dead body in the back of the truck. Especially if that dead body is covered in bags of oysters or trees for example.
Speaking of which, does Gilgo Island have trees in the area the bodies were found (more specifically the body with the tree growing)? And the type of tree found? If it's not a native species, then that would further this theory. If there were big trees covering the bodies, a seed could have fallen onto the body and began growing.
Just something out of the box but makes you go HMM. I would definitely look into that theory if I was working the case. It would be simple to get the tree identified by an expert and where it's native climate is just from a crime scene photo of it. Many people have trees that are not native to their climates shipped in by a landscaper or bought from a landscaping company.
Sometimes thinking out of the box is okay just to rule things out.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice

http://www.hessianfabric.co.uk
Hessian Jute “Hair Shirts”
The cilice, or hair shirt, is a garment worn underneath outer clothing specifically to cause pain or discomfort to the wearer. While hessian jute is a popular fabric for cilice construction, history is rife with examples of people who sported much rougher and less comfortable versions of the garment, including shirts made of metal, garments that incorporate inward-pointing spikes, and entire suits made from rough fabric or animal hair.
Just as hessian jute has been in production and use for hundreds of years, historians have found evidence of cilices that date back thousands of years. Some suspect that their incorporation into religious practice predates writing systems.
Today, hair shirts (whether made from hessian jute or some other material) are perhaps best known as part of the practice of mortification of the senses, which is included in many Catholic traditions.
 
Hi all!!

Can someone bring me up to speed??? Has it been positively mentioned the victims were found in burlap "SACKS" as compared with just burlap? I know I've seen discussion both ways. This would seem to be important. I don't know which direction I should be heading in and which is a rabbit hole...LOL


Someone else asked about a FOI request~~can those of us at WS crowd source something like that~~like they did with the Steven Avery case?

TIA
 
Hi all!!

Can someone bring me up to speed??? Has it been positively mentioned the victims were found in burlap "SACKS" as compared with just burlap? I know I've seen discussion both ways. This would seem to be important. I don't know which direction I should be heading in and which is a rabbit hole...LOL

Someone else asked about a FOI request~~can those of us at WS crowd source something like that~~like they did with the Steven Avery case?


TIA
I wish I could tell you. I would like to know myself. I have read many posts about "sacks" and many about them being "wrapped in burlap". To me, it makes a big difference in which direction my mind would go.
 
Hi all!!

Can someone bring me up to speed??? Has it been positively mentioned the victims were found in burlap "SACKS" as compared with just burlap? I know I've seen discussion both ways. This would seem to be important. I don't know which direction I should be heading in and which is a rabbit hole...LOL


Someone else asked about a FOI request~~can those of us at WS crowd source something like that~~like they did with the Steven Avery case?

TIA

It is not clear, if we are looking at burlap bags, sacks or plain burlap roll material. Dormer for example early on confirmed the G4 were "wrapped in burlap". He refused to confirm or to refute "burlap bags". We further read about "wedged into burlap bags/sacks". Nothing but the burlap (Dormer) is confirmed.

Honestly, if I had a choice, I would choose burlap material and would wrap the bodies, simply because I would be independent to rigor mortis setting in quickly or having to wait until it resides a couple of days later. How else to fit the bodies into a sack..?

FOI would interfere with an open investigation, plus you have the fed and the state levels, all differently regulated. That's why I love the Florida Sunshine Laws..;--) ("Here kitty, kitty..come to Florida")

-Nin
 
It is not clear, if we are looking at burlap bags, sacks or plain burlap roll material. Dormer for example early on confirmed the G4 were "wrapped in burlap". He refused to confirm or to refute "burlap bags". We further read about "wedged into burlap bags/sacks". Nothing but the burlap (Dormer) is confirmed.

Honestly, if I had a choice, I would choose burlap material and would wrap the bodies, simply because I would be independent to rigor mortis setting in quickly or having to wait until it resides a couple of days later. How else to fit the bodies into a sack..?

FOI would interfere with an open investigation, plus you have the fed and the state levels, all differently regulated. That's why I love the Florida Sunshine Laws..;--) ("Here kitty, kitty..come to Florida")

-Nin

Thanks NIN for the awesome explanation...

You would think they would want help. It truly is amazing what WSer's can uncover. For instance, in the picture a WSer posted above, there appears to be a rope of some kind off to the right in the sand. Knowing where the burlap was made, might also help. Knowing who manufacturers the burlap and who the customers are of that manufacturer might narrow it down just a tad.

Then us sluethers can do what we do best!!
 
Positive Light...


I remember reading that it was a blueberry bush, I believe.
 
Positive Light...


I remember reading that it was a blueberry bush, I believe.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/nyregion/more-human-remains-are-found-on-long-island.html
[h=1]More Human Remains Are Found on Long Island[/h] By AL BAKERFEB. 18, 2012
rbbm.
In November 2000, most of the body of another victim — who has not been identified but whom detectives refer to as Jane Doe No. 6 — was discovered in the same heavily wooded area of Manorville where Ms. Taylor’s torso was discovered.
The head, hands and other remains of Jane Doe No. 6 were found in April off Ocean Parkway.
It was early evening on Friday when Matthew J. Samuel, 30, discovered the bones in Manorville. This was about 350 yards from his house in an area he had passed many, many times.
He was cutting through the woods after he had been out with his German short-haired pointer, Molly, searching for the shed antlers of deer, when he noticed “the top, cranial portion of the skull,” bleached white from exposure. “I leaned in and looked a little closer and saw it was a skull from the seam in the back,” said Mr. Samuel, a welder, who is studying education. “And then I looked closer and it was human remains.”
He went home, called his older brother and a cousin and a friend. The four of them returned to the site with a flashlight. They saw the outline of a body seemingly face up, with a foot-high blueberry bush growing through it.

“We saw the pelvis bones sticking out,” said Mr. Samuel.
The body, partly buried, was wrapped in a worn bedsheet. The sheet appeared to be covered in a black plastic garbage bag and wrapped with duct tape.
 
A 7 episode commentary, circa 2014 which focused on 10 or 11 LI victims, including Shannan, the GB4, Asian male, Jessica Taylor, the toddler, and Jane Doe's 3 and 6 was conducted/produced by Mike Blangiforti. There were several interviews with Richard Dormer. On the 5th Episode at 11 mins and 10 seconds Dormer states the bodies were "wrapped" and dumped on the surface on the north side of Ocean Parkway.

From wording throughout this episode and possibly other episodes, I got the sense that perhaps most or all of the LI victims were "wrapped." He noted several times throughout the series that he cannot divulge whether or not burlap was the material victims were wrapped in. Although, it does appear to have leaked from more than one source. I think it may have been a hold-back that escaped to the public.

[video=youtube;uPfykMNJDwY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPfykMNJDwY[/video]

This New York Post article states that the GB4 were found in burlap.

"The cop had been looking for a different woman, but the dog’s discovery of Barthelemy’s body in a crumbling burlap sack - snip".

Later the article states

"Within days of unearthing Barthelemy’s remains, police found the bodies of three more young call girls who booked appointments on Craigslist and went missing between 2007 and 2010: Brainard-Barnes, 25; Megan Waterman, 22; and Amber Lynn Costello, 27.

Each had been strangled elsewhere, wedged into burlap and dumped amid thick scrub just off the sand-swept causeway on the inlet side of Gilgo in the town of Babylon."


I still believe the most important aspect of said burlap is that if it is fact that some or all victims were "wrapped" in burlap, the killer(s) feels comfortable with and is familiar with burlap. Yes, it can be bought at many places, and folks in various professions use it. But, dumping victims in burlap is rare, despite it being easy to obtain. It is part of his signature, I believe. Something in my gut tells me this is important.
 
I wish they would mention how large the Burlap bags were. Large, 5ft and above in length burlap bags are rare and were more available decades ago.
 
ZERO confirmation.

The only quote is from the police officer who found the first body and he said it was "badly decomposed burlap".
 
Here is PROOF that these remains were not "tossed there" by another serial killer as a way to make the LISK jealous;

The latest sets of human remains found near a remote New York Beach are too old to be tied to the killings of four online escorts and may be the victims of another notorious Long Island serial killer, the New York Post reports

"These are so old that roots were growing around the vertebrae and the skull," the source told the newspaper. "These could be one or two of Joel Rifkin's victims who were never found."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/1...tims-long-island-serial-killer-726616671.html
 
But it is interesting to note that possibly multiple serial killers used this as their dumping ground. What attracted them to this area besides its desolation?
Also interesting that whomever dumped the torsos in the woods went all the way to gilgo beach to dump the rest of the remains.
More and more I am beginning to feel that SG was actually being pursued by more than one man intent on killing her that night. I feel the driver knows more than he's saying honestly. Who leaves the person who hired them stranded and alone in an area unfamiliar to them?
Unless he was afraid for his life or was threatened into leaving?
When exactly did SG start using this driver instead of her boyfriend and why? Did he drive for other call girls too?
JMOO
 
Positive Light...Island Beach state Park is NJ...it caught my eye because I am from there!!

So, plants may be the same there as in LI !!
That's what I'm thinking too! It's possibly found in all the areas up there.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

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