Burlap and Forensics

[maddalena1]

Forgive me if this question has already been asked. Do we have any idea if the victims found on GB were dumped and left to decompose on sight or dumped after they decomposed? Also we we have any idea of the timing of the dumping? For instance was the burlap that Maureen was found in appear to be more decomposed than the bag that Amber was found in?

I read that the bodies were in various stages of decomposition. I also read that there was some thought that the killer kept them for awhile but not sure if this is factual.

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[maddalena1]

What annoys me the most......how can they have no forensic evidence. Crap they have a body found only after being missing 4 months. ....Amber...

Burlap is a course material. ....... what... no epithelial evidence for dna?.....no plant/soil/grain extracts. ....no ...mucuous...secretional...dna....

Lisk..is NOT coated in Bubblewrap...the loser has left some forensic mark that will lead willing investigators back to him.

NOW after Burkes incarceration. ..... all evidence should be re looked at.

My worry is that the evidence was destroyed. We do need evidence to convict. Science trumps circumstantial.

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[deedee21]

My worry is that the evidence was destroyed. We do need evidence to convict. Science trumps circumstantial.

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Coverups trumps science.

 

[The Nomad]

Something occurred to me looking at that daily mail pic again.

The burlap looks dark, we've all been assuming its natural burlap, but what if it was a synthetic alternative? I was thinking about things that it could be used for, and one thing that stood out for me is a large amount of mail. The postmen here will just leave sacks at work places.

Could the perp either be someone who delivers mail or receives a lot of mail?

Just a thought. And I could be way off, but it was striking that the burlap in the pic was dark rather than brown.

 

[Kali&89]

Not sure 100 percent it's burlap... it looks like burlap especially on the end of the bag closest to the feet where it's frayed..I just wish there was a way to confirm it's burlap.. I tried enhancing the photo and sharpening it but I still could be sure... it also looks like there is blue fabric near the top of the bag...did you find a picture of a US postal mail bag online?

 

[Kali&89]

I found this company in Lynbrook NY that manufactures burlap and polypropylene bags here is a link to their website
http://www.fibcbulkbag.com/index.htm
This company is in Lynbrook which is a 35-39 minute drive to Oak Beach and about an hour to Manorville. I looked through their inventory and they sell burlap and black polypropylene bags with a tie on the end. To me the bag from the Jones Beach photo that the kneeling officer is examining looks very similar to the black polypropylene bags on Tape Directs website .Also, their is something sticking off to the side on the Jones beach bag which could be a tie, the picture of the black polypropylene bags On Tape Directs website contains a tie at the top of the bag .I know its a long shot but this companies location would be very convenient for a local to purchase bags and then travel the routes from Lynbrook to Gilgo/Oak Beach and Manorville. If you put the companies address into map quest and then get the routes to Gilgo and Oak beach its shows Lynbrook would be a very convenient spot to access these two locations or vice versa. I think the burlap from the GB4 and the possible black propylene bag from Jones beach should be compared to this companies inventory. Its a long shot but still a strong possibility just because of the companies location.

 

[mysteryattic]

Good sleuthing,Kali&89!

 

[Armchair-reader]

I found this company in Lynbrook NY that manufactures burlap and polypropylene bags here is a link to their website
http://www.fibcbulkbag.com/index.htm
This company is in Lynbrook which is a 35-39 minute drive to Oak Beach and about an hour to Manorville. I looked through their inventory and they sell burlap and black polypropylene bags with a tie on the end. To me the bag from the Jones Beach photo that the kneeling officer is examining looks very similar to the black polypropylene bags on Tape Directs website .Also, their is something sticking off to the side on the Jones beach bag which could be a tie, the picture of the black polypropylene bags On Tape Directs website contains a tie at the top of the bag .I know its a long shot but this companies location would be very convenient for a local to purchase bags and then travel the routes from Lynbrook to Gilgo/Oak Beach and Manorville. If you put the companies address into map quest and then get the routes to Gilgo and Oak beach its shows Lynbrook would be a very convenient spot to access these two locations or vice versa. I think the burlap from the GB4 and the possible black propylene bag from Jones beach should be compared to this companies inventory. Its a long shot but still a strong possibility just because of the companies location.

The manner of death is strangulation but I can't find anything more precise on "strangulation" was an instrument used ect. If something were used the place you discovered has a tool for it. Manual and automatic wire tie twisters.

http://www.fibcbulkbag.com/accessories.htm

 

[Kali&89]

I know I saw that ...They would absolutely work for strangulation..We would need to see autopsy reports to know if a garrotte was used though but if the remains were badly decomposed would they be able to tell if a garrotte was used?

The manner of death is strangulation but I can't find anything more precise on "strangulation" was an instrument used ect. If something were used the place you discovered has a tool for it. Manual and automatic wire tie twisters.

http://www.fibcbulkbag.com/accessories.htm

 

[TheGardener]

John Bittrolff's home is located scant miles from an enormous cluster of greenhouses and nurseries. Its a veritable motherlode of nursery burlap.

 

[DaisyChains]

I think we are beating a dead horse discussing the burlap. This was discussed a great deal in the past. It turns out burlap is used ALOT for many different things. As far as it being a significant clue--starting with the fact that burlap sacks were stored in an unlocked structure at the entrance gate by the Oak Beach Association, everyone in Oak Beach had access to them. http://oakbeachcivicassociation.com/kids

Bumping this post! Very good point imo...


I think the burlap was used bc it was the most convenient thing in the killer's possession that he could use to transport a body undetected and without suspicion from his home to his burial site. It's probably something that he could explain away if seen in possession of the bags aka something he used often not just when moving bodies and is likely communally sourced. Also it probably blended in with the bramble well and camouflaged the bodies a bit more. I don't think it had much to do with ritual, although I do think the killer liked to revisit the remains to check if they had been disturbed by animals and to relive his crimes. Jmo

Also, is it more difficult to lift evidence off burlap than it is trashbags???

 

[DaisyChains]

Here is a picture of the discovery of one of the GB4 victims..To me the body in the burlap looks tiny so tiny I thought it looks like it must have been cut up before being placed in the bag. Also, when I blew the photo up on my laptop it looks like there is a piece of a black plastic bag sticking out of one corner of the burlap bag or wrap.I saved this onto my laptop awhile ago Ill see if I can find the link to the original picture.The original pic had other officers and a police dog and some of the landscape of Gilgo beach visible.

Trash bags may contain things, but they tend to rip/tear open. Double it up with burlap and there is less seeping and ripping that can occur. I think he used them for purposes of carrying, concealing, and most important containment.

Sure is a small bag. Thank you for this blown up pic! I agree that it looks to small to be intact remains.

 

[scotiansleuth]

Here is a picture of the discovery of one of the GB4 victims..To me the body in the burlap looks tiny so tiny I thought it looks like it must have been cut up before being placed in the bag. Also, when I blew the photo up on my laptop it looks like there is a piece of a black plastic bag sticking out of one corner of the burlap bag or wrap.I saved this onto my laptop awhile ago Ill see if I can find the link to the original picture.The original pic had other officers and a police dog and some of the landscape of Gilgo beach visible.

Found the original by doing a reverse image search. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/long-island-serial-killer-more-than-one/

 

[scotiansleuth]

The Long Island serial killer spent time with his victims, he cut them up and stuffed them in burlap bags for disposal at his ‘chop shop’ somewhere in Queens or west Long Island NY which is central to all the last known address’s for the victims and where the bodies where found.

That quote is from PI Bill Warner. He has a lot of ideas about where the SK lives and where his 'chop shop' is located. He also has images of the type of bags used.

 

[PickleChris]

Thought of this last night. If the bodies were intact and not decomposed. Placed just into the brush on the shoulder of the road almost in view from the roadway. Wouldn't people driving by see animals feeding?

 

[DQN]

Thought of this last night. If the bodies were intact and not decomposed. Placed just into the brush on the shoulder of the road almost in view from the roadway. Wouldn't people driving by see animals feeding?

Probably not, the brush is mush too thick.

 

[Dumas911]

Found the original by doing a reverse image search. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/long-island-serial-killer-more-than-one/

Looks like black trash bag stuffed inside a blue woven material bag. There's stitching along the top of the bag where the officers hand is. I've seen lots of burlap in my life, but never in any color other than brown. They may make it in other colors, but that looks more like nylon/polyester or something like the material bags to store tents are made of.

 

[margarita25]

(I was juuuust thinking about this thread. I was outside and saw a tree trunk wrapped in burlap.)

 

[NY Ranger Fan]

Thought of this last night. If the bodies were intact and not decomposed. Placed just into the brush on the shoulder of the road almost in view from the roadway. Wouldn't people driving by see animals feeding?

Most carnivorous animals are nocturnal like fox, raccoons. Rodents would feed at any time, birds of course during the day. So you'd have to be looking at the right time to see anything out of the usual.

 

[Armchair-reader]

Looks like black trash bag stuffed inside a blue woven material bag. There's stitching along the top of the bag where the officers hand is. I've seen lots of burlap in my life, but never in any color other than brown. They may make it in other colors, but that looks more like nylon/polyester or something like the material bags to store tents are made of.

It kind of looks like this stuff doesn't it?
http://www.ace-bag.com/meshbags.html