By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[HarmonyE.]

depends on what, there is a lot of disinformation.

There is and much of it comes from the Ramseys and their legal supporters. If you want to understand this case, you much read everything you can and read it in it's proper context. Only then can you make an informed decision on what you think happened.

 

[Meara]

I just bought the Foreign Faction book from Kolar on Amazon Kindle. I need to brush up on the experts here on this case on WS.

If I come on here and post and ask questions, this is why.

Hi ElleElle,

I'm excited for you. I found Kolar's book eye-opening. It's time to re-read it, though, so I've just downloaded the Kindle edition to have the Search option.

Twenty years on and the board has new posts daily and over 2500 threads. We're all still learning : )

 

[Ambitioned]

I just bought the Foreign Faction book from Kolar on Amazon Kindle. I need to brush up on the experts here on this case on WS.

If I come on here and post and ask questions, this is why.

I'm disappointed because the update was supposed to arrive before Christmas. Then it said after Christmas. Now it says nothing. I'm hoping Woody didn't block it.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,
Strictly we all know that's Patsy lying through her teeth again, why because they aint Christian, their just book carriers.

If I had been there I would have said John when was the last time you spoke to God

Whatever his reply I would then have asked and what did God say to you?



That's the Team Ramsey front line response, i.e. Third Person.

Sometimes known as Looking Into The Mind of God.

Here's what I found interesting:

J. RAMSEY: Christ did not ask for repentance when he forgave his executers.

Maybe I've been studying this case too long.

 

[Tortoise]

Here's what I found interesting:

J. RAMSEY: Christ did not ask for repentance when he forgave his executers.

Maybe I've been studying this case too long.

What struck me was how he viewed the question personally, rather than thinking how to apply it to 'a killer on the loose'

 

[UKGuy]

Here's what I found interesting:

J. RAMSEY: Christ did not ask for repentance when he forgave his executers.

Maybe I've been studying this case too long.

BOESP.

Nope, I assume your correct and JR is asserting they never knew JonBenet was alive?

i.e. her death was an act of ignorance?


And indirectly a confession by JR ...



.

 

[questfortrue]

Here's a snipped quotation from the "Larry King Live" show with Steve Thomas and the Ramseys. Does anyone notice something possibly incriminating in this quotation?

THOMAS: Well, absolutely. But the Bible also says, without confession, there is no forgiveness.Patsy, do you think...
J. RAMSEY: It doesn't say that.
THOMAS: It doesn't?
J. RAMSEY: Christ did not ask for repentance when he forgave his executers.
THOMAS: Without confession, there is no forgiveness. Do you think that God will forgive the person that did this?
P. RAMSEY: That's up to that person and God.

Boesp, it’s funny how some of their comments strike us. It seems as though the resolution of forgiveness between “that” person and God was certainly someone else, as deemed by Patsy’s speech. It was pretty good distancing, or she was pointing to someone else in the family.

One of the scenes which told me something important about the Rs and their religion was mentioned in PMPT. Lou Smit had driven to their home on 15th Street and happened upon the two adult Rs. JR and PR invited Smit into the car to pray with them. Their prayer was to ask God to find the killer of their daughter and to make their nightmare end. So the mask of innocence is even utilized in prayer with a devout Christian detective. Hervey Cleckley once described such inordinate ability to wear a mask as “knowing the words, but not the music.”

 

[HarmonyE.]

I'm disappointed because the update was supposed to arrive before Christmas. Then it said after Christmas. Now it says nothing. I'm hoping Woody didn't block it.

He can't do anything to block the publication of a book although he can threaten Kolar with a lawsuit if it is published. He supposedly didn't sue him over the last book as he didn't want to give the book any attention, but this time around he's been on TV and the first book garnished enough attention to land him there. Kolar was clearly concerned about being sued the last time, so it wouldn't shock me if he waits for the outcome of the Spitz suit and the promised CBS suit before proceeding.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP.

Nope, I assume your correct and JR is asserting they never knew JonBenet was alive?

i.e. her death was an act of ignorance?


And indirectly a confession by JR ...



.

Yes, that is what I thought. The scripture includes,"Forgive them for they know not what they do."

John Ramsey repeated a concept out of the Bible so why did he choose that one when, clearly, the Christian concept of salvation is a free gift given by those who confess their sins and seek forgiveness. Ramsey's thinking, apparently, is that there is no sin to forgive if you aren't aware of sinning.

Of course, imo, John implied that Jesus asked for forgiveness for the executers.

This is getting deep but it truly seems he and Patsy (according to the response she gave) believed the killers were eternally safe in God's eyes. Their response is certainly no where near typical of most parents of a murdered child.

 

[BOESP]

What struck me was how he viewed the question personally, rather than thinking how to apply it to 'a killer on the loose'

BBM: And your response, coupled with UKGuy's post, is exactly how I interpreted that part of the Ramsey interview on Larry King's show.

 

[Ambitioned]

Kolar was clearly concerned about being sued the last time, so it wouldn't shock me if he waits for the outcome of the Spitz suit and the promised CBS suit before proceeding.

Thank you! That does make a lot of sense.

 

[BOESP]

Boesp, it’s funny how some of their comments strike us. It seems as though the resolution of forgiveness between “that” person and God was certainly someone else, as deemed by Patsy’s speech. It was pretty good distancing, or she was pointing to someone else in the family.

One of the scenes which told me something important about the Rs and their religion was mentioned in PMPT. Lou Smit had driven to their home on 15th Street and happened upon the two adult Rs. JR and PR invited Smit into the car to pray with them. Their prayer was to ask God to find the killer of their daughter and to make their nightmare end. So the mask of innocence is even utilized in prayer with a devout Christian detective. Hervey Cleckley once described such inordinate ability to wear a mask as “knowing the words, but not the music.”

BBM: I've yet to figure out how finding the killer "makes their nightmare end." It doesn't bring back JonBenet. The Ramseys, based on their own words as spoken in public or printed for public consumption, are always the victims. JonBenet is barely given a mention.

The Ramseys should have read the parts in the Bible about controlling the tongue. :blushing:

 

[Ambitioned]

BBM: I've yet to figure out how finding the killer "makes their nightmare end." It doesn't bring back JonBenet. The Ramseys, based on their own words as spoken in public or printed for public consumption, are always the victims. JonBenet is barely given a mention.

The Ramseys should have read the parts in the Bible about controlling the tongue. :blushing:

Or lying.

The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked make themselves a stench and bring shame on themselves.
(Proverbs 13:5)

 

[kanzz]

Yes, that is what I thought. The scripture includes,"Forgive them for they know not what they do."

John Ramsey repeated a concept out of the Bible so why did he choose that one when, clearly, the Christian concept of salvation is a free gift given by those who confess their sins and seek forgiveness. Ramsey's thinking, apparently, is that there is no sin to forgive if you aren't aware of sinning.

Of course, imo, John implied that Jesus asked for forgiveness for the executers.

This is getting deep but it truly seems he and Patsy (according to the response she gave) believed the killers were eternally safe in God's eyes. Their response is certainly no where near typical of most parents of a murdered child.

It's clearly a perverted interpretation of scripture on JR's part. Christ offering up forgiveness for those who are about to execute Him "for they know not what they do" (i.e. maybe they don't realize He is truly Christ) is a far cry from those of us who sin against one another.

And for JR to jump in so quickly on the LKL show and say "It doesn't say that," is silly. The teachings of the church say that repentance is just about second only to "God is love." These concepts follow right on the heels of the Ten Commandments. There's plenty of scripture about repentance and that without true repentance there is no forgiveness.

If he thought he didn't need to ask because forgiveness was already given, he has another think coming, imo.

JR is certainly no theologian. (But neither am I).

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, that is what I thought. The scripture includes,"Forgive them for they know not what they do."

John Ramsey repeated a concept out of the Bible so why did he choose that one when, clearly, the Christian concept of salvation is a free gift given by those who confess their sins and seek forgiveness. Ramsey's thinking, apparently, is that there is no sin to forgive if you aren't aware of sinning.

Of course, imo, John implied that Jesus asked for forgiveness for the executers.

This is getting deep but it truly seems he and Patsy (according to the response she gave) believed the killers were eternally safe in God's eyes. Their response is certainly no where near typical of most parents of a murdered child.

BOESP,
Yupee, I reckon your analysis and biblical interpretation is spot on. Come and sermon in my church anytime.

IMO JR is definitely saying we never knew. Patsy is laying it all off onto God, e.g. he will decide, i.e. its a third party decision.


As I suggest the R's were just biblical bag carriers their understanding of scripture likely never went beyond a superficial reading of the holy texts.

.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

No, Zack's father was stationed in the Philippines. Zach's military training was in Washington, near Puget Sound.

Foley warns the male candidates about the "Puget Sound Debs" — young women in the area who dream of marrying a Naval Aviator to escape their dull, local lives. Foley claims they scout the regiment for OCs, and will feign pregnancy or even stop using birth control to become pregnant to trap the men.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Officer_and_a_Gentleman

Richard Gere "Zack Mayo" got his tattoo at Subic Bay. Philippine before he went to Washington State for training.

https://youtu.be/vuuTS_WNw5w

 

[kanzz]

BOESP,
Yupee, I reckon your analysis and biblical interpretation is spot on. Come and sermon in my church anytime.

IMO JR is definitely saying we never knew. Patsy is laying it all off onto God, e.g. he will decide, i.e. its a third party decision.

As I suggest the R's were just biblical bag carriers their understanding of scripture likely never went beyond a superficial reading of the holy texts.

.

And while we're on this topic, I'd just like to say that one of the things that really pissed me off about all of this was PR dragging Fr. Rol into the scene that morning 20 years ago. Of all the damn nerve.

 

[Ambitioned]

JR is certainly no theologian. (But neither am I).

Yet you and BOESP understand the Scriptures better.

JR reminds me of someone I know who reads the Bible front to back several times and claims to know the Scriptures by heart (but still doesn't believe). He knows but he doesn't understand. He twists the Bible around to justify his own rationalizations.

Peter made it clear that those who twist Scripture are “untaught and unstable.” (Ignorant).

 

[Ambitioned]

And while we're on this topic, I'd just like to say that one of the things that really pissed me off about all of this was PR dragging Fr. Rol into the scene that morning 20 years ago. Of all the damn nerve.

Can you imagine that?? Being there and hearing JR say something like, "He didn't mean to do this -- look how she is wrapped." And then having to deliver Last Rites?

I read ( on here I think) that Jeff Shapiro had gotten close to the Ramseys - and had also begun attending their church regularly and even spoke to the pastor several times about converting. If he can be believed, he was sitting there and witnessed the pastor's warmth and kindness to John and his cold disdain for PR. Interesting.

 

[kanzz]

Can you imagine that?? Being there and hearing JR say something like, "He didn't mean to do this -- look how she is wrapped." And then having to deliver Last Rites?

I read ( on here I think) that Jeff Shapiro had gotten close to the Ramseys - and had also begun attending their church regularly and even spoke to the pastor several times about converting. If he can be believed, he was sitting there and witnessed the pastor's warmth and kindness to John and his cold disdain for PR. Interesting.

Fr. Rol was placed in an awkward position by PR and he was forced to at least initially believe in the R's innocence, I guess. It was too late for any prayers of Ministration to the Sick for JB, since she was already dead (the Episcopal Church doesn't refer to them as Last Rites). I wondered about Shapiro's perception and honesty in his reports about Fr. Rol's treatment of JR and PR.