By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

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By Accident or on Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

  • An Intruder Killed JonBenet and Covered Up the Crime

    Votes: 38 7.1%
  • Patsy Ramsey Acted Alone in Killing JonBenet and Covering Up the Crime

    Votes: 23 4.3%
  • John Ramsey Acted Alone in Killing JonBenet and Covering Up the Crime

    Votes: 4 0.7%
  • Burke Killed JonBenet with Patsy and John Helping to Cover Up the Crime

    Votes: 394 73.4%
  • John and Patsy Acted Together in Killing JonBenet and Covering Up the Crime

    Votes: 30 5.6%
  • Other/I Don't Know

    Votes: 48 8.9%

  • Total voters
    537
^ Yes, it does, compared to evidence that does exist.

I've offered much more evidence than you, who have only offered hypotheticals, maybe's, and might-have's.

I don't really care if you personally believe otherwise; but like I said, I'm posting for new people, so they aren't bamboozled.
 
^ Yes, it does, compared to evidence that does exist.

I've offered much more evidence than you, who have only offered hypotheticals, maybe's, and might-have's.

I don't really care if you personally believe otherwise; but like I said, I'm posting for new people, so they aren't bamboozled.


Userid,
Likewise I'll be posting so new members can decide on the basis of alternative interpretations of the available evidence, hence not be indocrinated into thinking a particular RDI is the way forward.

BDI has not been disconfirmed as a theory so its on the table so just get used to it !

.
 
Thats because they helped stage BR out of the case,

.

and left themselves in it .......
please explain this.

it doesn't make any sense what soever.

why would they be aware enough to know what to remove of burke.....but not themselves.???????

we were going for an intruder/ ransom after all.

that is laughable uk. truly. its just not fathomable that they would do such a ridiculous action.

this was not planned. it was an accident and they installed a basic someone else did it plan.
no deliberately incriminating themselves. defies all the staging we have evidence of.
 
and left themselves in it .......
please explain this.

it doesn't make any sense what soever.

why would they be aware enough to know what to remove of burke.....but not themselves.???????

we were going for an intruder/ ransom after all.

that is laughable uk. truly. its just not fathomable that they would do such a ridiculous action.

this was not planned. it was an accident and they installed a basic someone else did it plan.
no deliberately incriminating themselves. defies all the staging we have evidence of.

k-mac,
why would they be aware enough to know what to remove of burke.....but not themselves.???????
The same critique applies to the wine-cellar staging if the parents were attempting to stage one or both out of the picture, particularly PDI !

e.g. Patsy thinks I'll stage a kidnapping that leaves Jonbenet in the basement and a ransom note upstairs to prove a nasty intruder did it. Yeah that will sever any link between me and JonBenet's death?

Except she leaves a trail of forensic evidence that embeds her deeper in the case, why so?


Patsy is definitely taking a bullet for BR, e.g. I gave JonBenet the size-12's, I dressed JonBenet in the longjohns. JR after years of denial remembers he put BR to bed using the flashlight.

why would they be aware enough to know what to remove of burke.....but not themselves.???????
BPD have not made all the forensic lab results publicly available, so we do not know what the parents missed?


that is laughable uk. truly. its just not fathomable that they would do such a ridiculous action.
They say laughter is the best medicine, so while they might not do it for themselves, maybe they would do it so not to lose BR. His lockup would mean both the loss of a son and daughter.


.
 
Userid,
Likewise I'll be posting so new members can decide on the basis of alternative interpretations of the available evidence, hence not be indocrinated into thinking a particular RDI is the way forward.

BDI has not been disconfirmed as a theory so its on the table so just get used to it !

.

I never said it's off the table necessarily; I've said it's the one that makes the least amount of sense.

That's fine if you post with similar purpose; I just hope you don't pawn conjecture as fact as much.
 
and left themselves in it .......
please explain this.

it doesn't make any sense what soever.

why would they be aware enough to know what to remove of burke.....but not themselves.???????

we were going for an intruder/ ransom after all.

that is laughable uk. truly. its just not fathomable that they would do such a ridiculous action.

this was not planned. it was an accident and they installed a basic someone else did it plan.
no deliberately incriminating themselves. defies all the staging we have evidence of.

Precisely. There is no logical answer to this basic question. Are we to believe they were good enough to remove every single shred of evidence a nine year old would leave behind, but not good enough to remove their own evidence? Let's get real here.
 
e.g. Patsy thinks I'll stage a kidnapping that leaves Jonbenet in the basement and a ransom note upstairs to prove a nasty intruder did it. Yeah that will sever any link between me and JonBenet's death?

Except she leaves a trail of forensic evidence that embeds her deeper in the case, why so?


.

Because they're amateurs who have never committed murder and/or staged a murder before.
 
Maybe more multifaceted than just
good or bad staging.

Reactionary staging?

Operating under a great adrenaline rush.

Tricky to attach a normal/ routine thought
process to their reactions to the chain of events
that they might have been faced with,
regardless of suppositions, BDI or PDI/RDI.
 
Sometimes I think the staging and RN was intended to make just about everyone look like a suspect, except Burke.
 
Ah, my favorite technique: taking one term I used and completely twisting it around.

I said "willy nilly" not to you, dear lady -- I used that term while addressing UK Guy, and I used it in response to his belief that the grand jury would simply charge both parents with Murder One, even if they didn't know exactly which parent committed which act. They wouldn't, and they couldn't. This isn't "People's Court" here.

Congrats: you just lost all your credibility with this post, at least with me. Never once had I ever said that a grand jury doesn't ever charge for murder one, so don't put words in my mouth: I said, this particular grand jury wouldn't do so, because they simply couldn't -- this is obvious in the indictments, and any ethical jury wouldn't just charge one person, let alone two, for murder one without sufficient evidence. The whole point of a grand jury is to be objective and to determine the exact grounds why a trial should move forward. To expect this grand jury to charge both parents with murder one when the evidence they had at their disposal didn't clarify which parent was responsible for which act is utterly ludicrous. You are assuming (I don't need to use the old adage here) that the "30,000 pieces of evidence" would clearly show which parent committed which particular, specific act, even though you have zero idea of what any or all of that evidence was. You weren't in that jury; and neither was I, but based on what the jury did charge the parents with, one can rationally assume that said evidence didn't illustrate which parent committed which act.

Userid,
I do apologies for being rude. I really do mean that. If nothing else let us be honest, you've given nothing I’ve posted credibility. Lol! And I’m okay with it. Like I said before, agree to disagree. As for putting words in one’s mouth, that’s your weapon. I asked a question, “was I understanding you right?” Now I know that I wasn’t.

The most aggressive posters have always been PDI. Because of lawsuits and fear of attack, BDI was only hinted at for years. So, I like many have kept my theory off this forum, until now. Lol, I’ve even cheered on my favorite P/JDI theorists when they went after IDI. Awe, the good ole bloody days of yore. Lol! But alas, it’s a new day here. With BDI coming to the forefront of possibilities, P/JDI’s foundation becomes shaky and starts to crumble. The only thing P/JDI can use are statistics with most of the facts easily fitting BDI. Under BDI everyone is involved. Without confession or conviction, we’ll never know.

I really am curious to know if you have the statistics for the following.
#1. Affluent mothers in the R’s demographics, murdering their children?
#2. Accidental deaths attributed to siblings?
#3. This type of murder case?

You’ve been following this case for a little over a year now,right? It takes some real cojones to take on some of these old timers, who have forgotten more then you’ve learned. Hats off to you and I mean that.








 
Because they're amateurs who have never committed murder and/or staged a murder before.


Userid,
Everyone and their pet dog knows all that. The R's were multi-millionares, in a completely different class to most of us. Want something just pick up the phone and its delivered in 30 minutes.

Patsy staging in the basement contradicts the motive behind the staging i.e. minimize forensic evidence and break any links with the victim. Patsy failed on all counts.

If Patsy had staged a crime-scene in JonBenet's bedroom, any of her forensic deposits might not be uniquely linked to the bedroom, as she was in and out of JonBenet's bedroom regularly.

If Patsy was a regular drug and alcohol user leading a chaotic lifestyle on some trailer site, then being an amateur might have some meaning.

Patsy had a University Degree and was by all accounts a clever woman, no dummy. So to stage a crime-scene that nullifies its purpose is, well paradoxical.


.
 
I never said it's off the table necessarily; I've said it's the one that makes the least amount of sense.

That's fine if you post with similar purpose; I just hope you don't pawn conjecture as fact as much.


Userid,
That's what I'm here for conjecture and speculation, also to exercise those famous 1st Amendment Rights, If I had all the facts the case would be solved !

.
 
Userid,
I do apologies for being rude. I really do mean that. If nothing else let us be honest, you've given nothing I’ve posted credibility. Lol! And I’m okay with it. Like I said before, agree to disagree. As for putting words in one’s mouth, that’s your weapon. I asked a question, “was I understanding you right?” Now I know that I wasn’t.

The most aggressive posters have always been PDI. Because of lawsuits and fear of attack, BDI was only hinted at for years. So, I like many have kept my theory off this forum, until now. Lol, I’ve even cheered on my favorite P/JDI theorists when they went after IDI. Awe, the good ole bloody days of yore. Lol! But alas, it’s a new day here. With BDI coming to the forefront of possibilities, P/JDI’s foundation becomes shaky and starts to crumble. The only thing P/JDI can use are statistics with most of the facts easily fitting BDI. Under BDI everyone is involved. Without confession or conviction, we’ll never know.

I really am curious to know if you have the statistics for the following.
#1. Affluent mothers in the R’s demographics, murdering their children?
#2. Accidental deaths attributed to siblings?
#3. This type of murder case?

You’ve been following this case for a little over a year now,right? It takes some real cojones to take on some of these old timers, who have forgotten more then you’ve learned. Hats off to you and I mean that.









A few back-handed complements in this post, so you'll have to forgive me for not giving you a "thanks."

I think aggression works both ways; one side isn't more prone than the other.

You asked "am I getting that right?" but the tone of your entire post was more than simply inquisitive, so I responded in kind.

Your request of me to provide even more particular stats is a common technique of BDI'ers "moving the goal posts." It would be futile anyway in that, the stats provided thus far are sufficient enough to argue that filicide is much more common than siblicide performed by a nine year old. Not to mention, you'll probably just move the goal posts even further afterward.

BDI is the flavor of the week, due to the CBS documentary. That's fine, albeit misguided. Overall activity has already waned in this particular forum.

The truth is, my PDI/JDI stance isn't solely based on statistics -- if you read the other threads, you'll see that. The difference between you and I is that, I don't dismiss statistics simply because they are inconvenient; and I value their worth in building the foundation of my overall argument.
 
Userid,
Everyone and their pet dog knows all that. The R's were multi-millionares, in a completely different class to most of us. Want something just pick up the phone and its delivered in 30 minutes.

Patsy staging in the basement contradicts the motive behind the staging i.e. minimize forensic evidence and break any links with the victim. Patsy failed on all counts.

If Patsy had staged a crime-scene in JonBenet's bedroom, any of her forensic deposits might not be uniquely linked to the bedroom, as she was in and out of JonBenet's bedroom regularly.

If Patsy was a regular drug and alcohol user leading a chaotic lifestyle on some trailer site, then being an amateur might have some meaning.

Patsy had a University Degree and was by all accounts a clever woman, no dummy. So to stage a crime-scene that nullifies its purpose is, well paradoxical.


.

No, it doesn't; and no, she didn't. It was successful enough, obviously; but not without fault (i.e. the fibers) -- understandably, in that she/they were intelligent enough, although not particularly skilled enough.

You don't know where the exact staging (of the body; not the room -- there's a difference) occurred. It's more reasonable to assume it occurred just outside the wine cellar room, where the murder (as evidence by the urine stain) occurred.
 
Userid,
That's what I'm here for conjecture and speculation, also to exercise those famous 1st Amendment Rights, If I had all the facts the case would be solved !

.

If that's entirely why you're here, it proves my point about BDI'ers all the more.
 
I am really enjoying this recent civil discussion.
Just want to thank y'all.
Much appreciative
of the opportunity to consider
and reflect.
 
Userid,

Yeah that’s what I thought you’d say. Oh, and thanks for the chuckle. This is exactly how I picture a debate with Mr. Turkentine to be like.

Mr. Turkentine: Of course you don't know. You don't know because only *I*know. If you knew and I didn't know, then you'd be teaching me instead of me teaching you - and for a student to be teaching his teacher is presumptuous and rude. Do I make myself clear?

Mr. Turkentine:Charlie Bucket, how many did you open?
Charlie Bucket: Two.
Mr. Turkentine: That's easy. 200 is twice 100...
Charlie Bucket: Not 200, just two.
Mr. Turkentine: Two?What do you mean you only opened two?
Charlie Bucket: I don't care very much for chocolate.
Mr. Turkentine: Well,I can't figure out just two! So let's pretend you opened 200. Now, if you opened 200 Wonka bars, apart from being dreadfully sick, you'd have used up 20% of 1,000, which is 15% half over again, 10%...


 
^ Great response, very mature.

Maybe you're just being inquisitive again :giggle:
 

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