By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I have a few open questions for the BDI-all folks (I'm a RDI with PDI leanings): What purpose could the toggle rope serve if Burke fashioned it? Was it made before the head blow as part of some sex game? Was it made to drag JonBenet? Was it fashioned post-head blow and if so, why would Burke do this? Who did the re-dressing and why re-dress her in Burke's own longjohns?

Methinks the rope on the neck was only staging either by J or P. I lean more towards J though.
It could be that the parents found an unconscious JB and the bloodied paintbrush which she was obviously assaulted with .The stager imo might have tried to hide the sexual assault in case any evidence could be linked to B by wiping her clean and redressing her in clean clothes. Burke 's longjohns were chosen to have an alibi for a possible evidence against B.
Rope was put on the neck and pulled and the rest of the paintbrush was fashioned as a garrote attached to it either so as the crime look more professional or to put another function for the broken paintbrush in the mix.

 

[UKGuy]

I have a few open questions for the BDI-all folks (I'm a RDI with PDI leanings): What purpose could the toggle rope serve if Burke fashioned it? Was it made before the head blow as part of some sex game? Was it made to drag JonBenet? Was it fashioned post-head blow and if so, why would Burke do this? Who did the re-dressing and why re-dress her in Burke's own longjohns?

AndHence,

The ligature might be all staging. There for effect and not much more. BR could have used the ligature minus the paintbrush?

So I do not think there was a ligature prior to the head blow. Looks like JonBenet was sexually assaulted then whacked on the head?

BR's long johns: well either he put them on or it was one of the parents?

Assuming he dressed her in the size-12's, and the long johns were to hand he just used them?

It could be one the parents deliberately asphyxiated JonBenet then staged the wine-cellar crime-scene?

I reckon JonBenet was sexually assaulted upstairs along with the blow to her head.

Taken downstairs she was wiped down and redressed. Its an open question whether she was assaulted again using the paintbrush. Meyer sought a second opinion regarding her vaginal injury, so staging might have been attempted?

 

[kanzz]

I have a few open questions for the BDI-all folks (I'm a RDI with PDI leanings): What purpose could the toggle rope serve if Burke fashioned it? Was it made before the head blow as part of some sex game? Was it made to drag JonBenet? Was it fashioned post-head blow and if so, why would Burke do this? Who did the re-dressing and why re-dress her in Burke's own longjohns?

My hunches are:
BR didn't use the paintbrush in the ligature device and the PR added it later during the staging.
The ligature wasn't made before the head blow or as any part of a sex game, and I don't believe it was used to drag JB.
Yes, it was fashioned after the head blow. To kill her. He didn't want her to wake up and tattle on him.
BR re-dressed her himself. I think there's a possibility that JB donned those things when she got home that night.

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*To kill her. He didn't want her to wake up and tattle on him.*snip*

And he couldn't have done that by striking her on the head again because....?

 

[kanzz]

And he couldn't have done that by striking her on the head again because....?

He could have, but the first blow didn't cause her death, so how was he to know if she would die if he struck her again? or again and again? And further blows to the head probably weren't even required for her to die as she would have ultimately died from the first blow anyway - but she was strangled.

 

[Pinkland]

He could have, but the first blow didn't cause her death, so how was he to know if she would die if he struck her again? or again and again? And further blows to the head probably weren't even required for her to die as she would have ultimately died from the first blow anyway - but she was strangled.

So how would Burke know she isn't dead? We know he had to wait a significant amount of time to strangle her.

With a head injury like that she would appear comatose. How and does a nine year old even know to check for a pulse?

I would think if I'm going to kill someone intentionally I would not stop till until it was done especially if it's a rage killing. The mo does not add up.

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

 

[UKGuy]

He could have, but the first blow didn't cause her death, so how was he to know if she would die if he struck her again? or again and again? And further blows to the head probably weren't even required for her to die as she would have ultimately died from the first blow anyway - but she was strangled.

kanzz,
Yes, Siree. Bleeding into the brain demonstrates JonBenet was still alive. Anyone want to argue about it? Time period five minutes to two hours, who cares?

We have Blunt Force Trauma to the skull, period. Followed later by ligature asphyxiation, resulting in death.

Now the ligature asphyxiation might have been intended as staging, i.e. the killer was not aware JonBenet was alive, they thought she was dead, e.g. no obvious signs of life?

I reckon the parents thought BR killed JonBenet when she was really still alive, and bleeding to the brain, poor girl!

.

 

[kanzz]

So how would Burke know she isn't dead? We know he had to wait a significant amount of time to strangle her.

With a head injury like that she would appear comatose. How and does a nine year old even know to check for a pulse?

I would think if I'm going to kill someone intentionally I would not stop till until it was done especially if it's a rage killing. The mo does not add up.

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

bbm

The head bash might or might not have been intended to kill, even though it was obviously done in rage.

The strangulation was obviously purposefully intended to kill.


How would BR know she wasn't dead?
People who are alive breathe.

People who are dead do not breathe.

 

[Pinkland]

bbm

The head bash might or might not have been intended to kill, even though it was obviously done in rage.

The strangulation was obviously purposefully intended to kill.


How would BR know she wasn't dead?
People who are alive breathe.

People who are dead do not breathe.

The breathing would have been light. I doubt he would see or hear her breathing...

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

 

[kanzz]

The breathing would have been light. I doubt he would see or hear her breathing...

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

It is unlikely that "The breathing would have been light". This is not medically sound info.

With the increase in intracranial pressure, what is most likely is that she would have been exhibiting Cheyne-Stokes breathing. It's a pattern of increasing amplitude and rate, then decreasing, with a short period of apnea; then the cycle resumes. This breathing is audible and as amplitude increases, it is often heard as gasps.

 

[Pinkland]

It is unlikely that "The breathing would have been light". This is not medically sound info.

With the increase in intracranial pressure, what is most likely is that she would have been exhibiting Cheyne-Stokes breathing. It's a pattern of increasing amplitude and rate, then decreasing, with a short period of apnea; then the cycle resumes. This breathing is audible and as amplitude increases, it is often heard as gasps.

Actually that breathing pattern is commonly known as death gasping. Which some do not have.

Furthermore, we do not know how long JBR would have lived with that head injury prior to the strangulation. So it's hard to determine when she would have been gasping like that if at all.

Though I'm glad you took the time to Google it...it doesn't make your opinion medically sound either.



Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

 

[skoogmagoo]

After watching the programs for the past week and a half it will be interesting to see if people have changed their mind as to what happened with JonBenet Ramsey.

Please vote and then comment if you like.

Thank you for your participation.

Tricia

I think Patsy had a sleep walking incident and did not remember.

 

[BBB167893]

I think Patsy had a sleep walking incident and did not remember.

You mean like a fugue?

 

[kanzz]

Actually that breathing pattern is commonly known as death gasping. Which some do not have.

Furthermore, we do not know how long JBR would have lived with that head injury prior to the strangulation. So it's hard to determine when she would have been gasping like that if at all.

Though I'm glad you took the time to Google it...it doesn't make your opinion medically sound either.

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

No, actually, this is not medically sound info either. "Death gasping", as you call it, is referred to as "agonal breathing" in the medical community. It is completely different from what I described.

What I stated earlier is accurate. I stand by it.

I didn't have to google anything. This comes from my own knowledge. I'm an RN. Have been for 37 years.

JB was alive when she was strangled.

 

[Meara]

Actually that breathing pattern is commonly known as death gasping. Which some do not have.

Furthermore, we do not know how long JBR would have lived with that head injury prior to the strangulation. So it's hard to determine when she would have been gasping like that if at all.

Though I'm glad you took the time to Google it...it doesn't make your opinion medically sound either.



Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

Took the time to Google it? kanzz is a RN.

 

[Pinkland]

No, actually, this is not medically sound info either. "Death gasping", as you call it, is referred to as "agonal breathing" in the medical community. It is completely different from what I described.

What I stated earlier is accurate. I stand by it.

I didn't have to google anything. This comes from my own knowledge. I'm an RN. Have been for 37 years.

JB was alive when she was strangled.

Sorry...no offense but I don't care if your a nurse. I've known plenty who can't even insert an IV correctly.

I'm glad you stand by your opinion though. But I stand by mine as well.

We do not know if JBR would go into cycles of apnea and gasping because we do not know how long she had the head injury.

The cycle your describing would develop when the pressure increased inside the head. Thus, the longer the swelling and bleeding occurs the higher the chance of the cycle. Though, it does not develop in every case anyways.

I do not find it plausible that a 9 year old would have the patience to stand around and find out. Especially, if she is experiencing the apnea part of the cycle that you believed she experienced.


Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

 

[kanzz]

I think Patsy had a sleep walking incident and did not remember.

That would be a lot of stuff to not remember.

 

[kanzz]

Sorry...no offense but I don't care if your a nurse. I've known plenty who can't even insert an IV correctly.

I'm glad you stand by your opinion though. But I stand by mine as well.

We do not know if JBR would go into cycles of apnea and gasping because we do not know how long she had the head injury.

The cycle your describing would develop when the pressure increased inside the head. Thus, the longer the swelling and bleeding occurs the higher the chance of the cycle. Though, it does not develop in every case anyways.

I do not find it plausible that a 9 year old would have the patience to stand around and find out. Especially, if she is experiencing the apnea part of the cycle that you believed she experienced.


Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

W/E.

Yes, as the pressure increased.. Which is why I said "intracranial pressure". This type of breathing probably would have started very soon after the head injury.

The periods of apnea would be very short. Just a few seconds. The entire cycle only takes 20 seconds tops. Not like he would have had to stand around and wait for anything. He had other things to do in that basement.

We do have a rough idea about how long it might have been between the head blow and the strangulation.

 

[UKGuy]

You mean like a fugue?

Sounds like a fancy term for inventive staging. Lets do a fugue today, we will have Blunt Force Trauma, a sexual assault and a fancy asphyxiation, i.e. an act in three parts.

,

 

[Pinkland]

I think Patsy had a sleep walking incident and did not remember.

We know John took melatonin...Does anyone know if any other sleeping pills were found in the house?

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk