GUILTY CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #12

[Jondy09]

Malnutrition and lack of exercise.

Why did she have so many kids when it's clear she hates them? Such a bizarre case.

Because they start off as cute babies and she loved (and took care of) babies.

 

[gitana1]

Since this case came out, I expected it to be bad but not this bad.
LT and DT took everything away from their children. Everything.
They were even stripped from the most basic thing - their personal hygiene.
I can't even imagine how those brains and minds were still somewhat working. These people have to have terrible, terrible, terrible issues after all of the horrible abuse they had to endure.
The fact that the Defense tried to sugar coat the situation that led to the lewd act charge really broke my heart, that poor child thought about committing suicide because of that. She already dealt with so much abuse and violence but the thing that drove her to trying to take her own life was the disgusting thing her father tried to do to her.
When I read that one of the boys admitted to thinking about killing small animals I didn't knew what to think. But the fact that the boy made sure to tell LE (or whoever it was - a person in a position of power) that he thought about doing that shows, to me, that the boy knows it's wrong and I could be wrong but that sounds like a cry for help (like, "look I have been having this weird thoughts and I don't like it" type of thing), because I doubt anyone really asked him if he ever felt like hurting animals, that's oddly specific. I just hope he is being given the tools to deal with it in a healthy way.
Hopefully they are being accompained by psychologists and that they trust those professionals to be honest about their feelings so they can get the help they need, in order to work on their issues.
I feel terrible for all of them, but the first born girl really worries me. I hope she finds a passion and is giving all the tools she needs to persue and live that passion, whatever that may be. That poor girl is just now starting a race that was started by the people her age a long time ago. She has a lot to catch up to and she needs all the help she can get.
Also, I looks like the older girl and the older boy were left in charge of the siblings for some time back in Texas and, apparently, received orders from their parents to punish their own siblings. These pathetic excuse of parents not only abused their own children, but they even forced two of their children to abuse their own siblings. Those poor souls were literally putting their siblings on cages and chaining them because they knew if they didn't, the parents would do even worse. This is so sick and so evil.

I hope you're right. I think though that that they were likely given psych Evals to test the level of damage done to them.

 

[gitana1]

Because they start off as cute babies and she loved (and took care of) babies.

That makes sense.

Weirdly, it made me think of the Duggars. Once the babies are weaned they are given to an older sibling to be raised, called a "buddy". Michelle Duggar is only a "buddy" to her infants while they're small.

For some people they may not like kids once they age.

It's all incomprehensible to me. There's something defective in people like that. Something missing.

 

[Amonet]

Anything that happened in Texas has to be tried in Texas.

The damage done to the siblings is cumulative over all the years of their lives. Do you expect that some of it would be able to be alluded to at all, or do you expect that it would all be banned from discussion in court due to its prejudicial nature?

What I mean is that some of the physical damage to the kids started back in TX, but they're still suffering the effects of it through the time in California and forward from the present day, so in that sense some of it seems pertinent to the case even though they can't be tried for it in Cali.

 

[Lilibet]

I’d really like to know where they were and what the monsters were doing when they left their kids alone for several years.

 

[Doghairrules]

I'm positive she's weeping for herself. That this was the call that ended her reign of terror and caused her to be arrested. Not for the horror she inflicted on her children.

Agreed. Or weeping over the “betrayal” of her subjects.

 

[Doghairrules]

I’d really like to know where they were and what the monsters were doing when they left their kids alone for several years.

Isnt that when David got a job in another town? Wasn’t something along these lines alluded to early on?

 

[Jennifer17]

Isnt that when David got a job in another town? Wasn’t something along these lines alluded to early on?

But wasn't it only 50 miles away? I may have that wrong, though.

 

[Corina]

Psalm 144:12: "May our sons flourish in their youth like well-nurtured plants. May our daughters be like graceful pillars, carved to beautify a palace." -
I don't think these wretched parents subscribed to the "quiverful" concept at all.

Heartbreaking.

 

[claudianunes]

The damage done to the siblings is cumulative over all the years of their lives. Do you expect that some of it would be able to be alluded to at all, or do you expect that it would all be banned from discussion in court due to its prejudicial nature?

What I mean is that some of the physical damage to the kids started back in TX, but they're still suffering the effects of it through the time in California and forward from the present day, so in that sense some of it seems pertinent to the case even though they can't be tried for it in Cali.

Right. Whatever happened back in Texas needs to be taken into consideration because the abuse escalated from there, it didn't just start out of nowhere in California. Nothing they did in Texas can be turned into charges in California, and that makes total sense, I just don't know if it makes any sense at all to just ignore it completely, instead of including it in the discussion as part of the whole context.

 

[beatrixpotter]

Kind of, but I also think part of it was laziness of the parents who didn't want to pay a higher water bill, keep bigger supplies of soap and have to spend time every day keeping bathrooms clean where 13 kids were needing to wash up and take showers every day. Wasn't there some report about the dirty bathroom rugs, etc? They didn't want to be bothered with laundering lots of towels, rugs, washcloths, bedding every day. They didn't want to have to run multiple dishwasher loads every day for eating and cooking utensils required to feed those kids 3 meals a day.

Yeah, it was mostly a control thing, but it was also about being lazy. They wanted to control the children in a punitive way because they were too lazy to manage their household properly. They wanted whatever religious perks they thought they earned by the "quiver full" thing without having to do any of the work. It just adds another dimension to their narcissistic motives for wanting to control and dehumanize their children.

Meh, they had like 7 adult children. All of those kids could have washed their own clothes, their own bodies and spent not that much time keeping bathrooms clean daily like any other adult. We have a large family. Water and soap are NOT that much. That's like the cheapest part of having a large family. I just do not buy that they didn't let them clean all year because of being too lazy.

Do I think the parents were lazy? Yeah, but I don't think that was a factor in refusing to allow their children to even clean themselves or their surroundings. That doesn't even really fit with being lazy. Lazy would be having the kids do everything for them.

 

[beatrixpotter]

Psalm 144:12: "May our sons flourish in their youth like well-nurtured plants. May our daughters be like graceful pillars, carved to beautify a palace." -
I don't think these wretched parents subscribed to the "quiverful" concept at all.

Heartbreaking.

I think people misuse the term like it's just some descriptor for every large family out there and it's not.

 

[bears10]

Malnutrition and lack of exercise.

Why did she have so many kids when it's clear she hates them? Such a bizarre case.

I think she likes them when they are young, and once they reach a certain age, she feels she has no use for them, so then the abuse begins.

 

[bears10]

That makes sense.

Weirdly, it made me think of the Duggars. Once the babies are weaned they are given to an older sibling to be raised, called a "buddy". Michelle Duggar is only a "buddy" to her infants while they're small.

For some people they may not like kids once they age.

It's all incomprehensible to me. There's something defective in people like that. Something missing.

Ew really? I know nothing about the duggars, but that is bizarre. In a different thread someone challenged me calling a victim brainwashed by asking if I think the duggar women are brainwashed. And after reading this, yep, I do.

 

[bears10]

Meh, they had like 7 adult children. All of those kids could have washed their own clothes, their own bodies and spent not that much time keeping bathrooms clean daily like any other adult. We have a large family. Water and soap are NOT that much. That's like the cheapest part of having a large family. I just do not buy that they didn't let them clean all year because of being too lazy.

Do I think the parents were lazy? Yeah, but I don't think that was a factor in refusing to allow their children to even clean themselves or their surroundings. That doesn't even really fit with being lazy. Lazy would be having the kids do everything for them.

And if the parents were concerned about the expense of having 7 adult children living with them, they could have allowed them to leave or had them get jobs to pay rent. Not lock them in the house all day. The expense aspect makes no sense to me because if parents don’t want to shoulder the expense of adult children, they kick them out or make them get a job.

 

[RickshawFan]

With spiders under the bed, I doubt it.

Jeremy Chen@JeremyChenKESQ
Investigator: 12 yr old told him she was caught in her mother's room before. Her mother grabbed by her neck and hair forced her on the ground and go underneath bed to retrieve item she dropped. Lots of spiders and spiderwebs under bed and was bitten.
2:31 PM - Jun 20, 2018

I dunno about this criminalizing of spiders under the bed.

Not a sign of more than ordinary neglect to have spiders under the bed in many parts of the country, and LT might have simply been afraid to look under a bed. She might have thought of requiring her daughter to go under the bed as extreme punishment because of her own fear.

 

[gitana1]

Psalm 144:12: "May our sons flourish in their youth like well-nurtured plants. May our daughters be like graceful pillars, carved to beautify a palace." -
I don't think these wretched parents subscribed to the "quiverful" concept at all.

Heartbreaking.

That passage has nothing to do with the Quiverfull movement, IMO. That's a prayer of David in the context of war. It is often interpreted to be about falsity and truth.

The Quiverfull movement is mostly based on Psalm 127: 3-5 from what I know.

It talks about being happy by having a Quiverfull essentially because they have an army to fight the enemy.

Which is really what the movement is about. In essence, it is a Christian dominionist movement about fighting a cosmic war and defeating the heathens.

And there have been myriad abuses among Quiverfull families. They are pretty much all extremely patriarchal, which is connected to increased rates of all forms of child abuse, domestic violence, and sexual assaults, as well as child neglect and poverty. (Andrea Yates was Quiverfull).

It is not a nice movement IMO.

Just google "Quiverfull abuse".

Here's a taste: https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mic....gars-to-blame-their-daughters-for-their-abuse

This family fits the pattern. Secrecy. Abuse. Appearances.

 

[gitana1]

The damage done to the siblings is cumulative over all the years of their lives. Do you expect that some of it would be able to be alluded to at all, or do you expect that it would all be banned from discussion in court due to its prejudicial nature?

What I mean is that some of the physical damage to the kids started back in TX, but they're still suffering the effects of it through the time in California and forward from the present day, so in that sense some of it seems pertinent to the case even though they can't be tried for it in Cali.

It looks like the prosecution is arguing it should come in as evidence because it gives context and shows that the California abuse was part of a "habit" of abuse. But any actual abuse counts cannot be charged or prosecuted in CA that arose from conduct occurring in another state.

ETA: Whether it comes in will be the subject of "motions in limine" which will be decided at trial right as it starts. I can't make a prediction. It will be interesting to see.

 

[Doghairrules]

But wasn't it only 50 miles away? I may have that wrong, though.

I can’t remember. I know it wasn’t too far, but I thought some of the early reports were that they lived separate from the kids for a while. Darn my memory!!

 

[Jennifer17]

I can’t remember. I know it wasn’t too far, but I thought some of the early reports were that they lived separate from the kids for a while. Darn my memory!!

Even if it was further, and too far for a daily commute, in most families, the father would stay in the other town, four nights a week and come home on Friday afternoon. My daughters family did this for five years until the kids finished school.