CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #5

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All clinicians have already made statements that the children should stay together and not be separated, as did Child Welfare Authorities.

I would be absolutely shocked to hear anything less.

I love the idea of side by side homes. But even that would have to be slowly introduced. This is a very delicate situation. VERY. Trauma experts would never separate them at this stage. Their separation should be born out of their own wishes and self determination.

Right now, they have asked to stay together.

FWIW, they are currently split into two groups with the younger ones at one hospital and the older ones at another hospital.

I also hope they can stay together in one place.

jmo
 
I think the NOT wanting V neck shirts is related to their feelings of vulnerability because of strangling.

Oh, that hurts my heart!!! I didn’t even think of that!
 
Argh!... This is.. oh my.. it's getting worse.

And someone actually thinks they can say they don't believe everything these poor children say? How awful.

Yeah, that oldest is only pretending to be 86 pounds.
 
The children* (* using that term for all of them) are going to have a very difficult road ahead of them. They will never fully recover.

Child Protective Services will be in charge of the minors, and Adult Protective Services will be in charge of the adults. The adults and older teenage children will receive medical care, and then will probably be transitioned into a program to help prepare them for independent living, if that is possible. If it is not possible due to issues with mental capacity, then you could see long term institutionalization (group homes).

For the minor children, the DA and CPS are supposed to look for family placements first, and then adoptive placements second. Parental rights have to be terminated before the children can be adopted, and termination is usually a long, time-consuming process, taking up to 18 months to complete. Also, this will not be a case where children are adopted out of foster care and are expected to go and live "happily ever after**." (** "happily ever after" is a myth anyway: children who have been subjected to abuse and trauma, as most foster children have, will always have issues to deal with and dragons to slay.) Rather, any children "adopted" will need to maintain contact with the other minor children and the adult children.
 
I'm not certain it's entirely in their best interest to stay together. Each has physical, mental, and emotional problems, paired with no real education. Each needs the opportunity to interact with people their own age, especially the adult siblings, and I feel the adult siblings need adult role models. I'm not saying they should never see each other - just be given room to develop.

I agree. Though I do think it is critically important for them to know where their siblings are, their well being, and be provided with opportunities to visit one another. They went through this ordeal together, but you are right that they need to individuate as well.


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Re: them wanting a reality tv show, I suspect it wasn't a real plan, but describing that as a goal to far-away family members could be a part of creating the impression (that some relatives mentioned having), that the family was doing well -- so well that they would make an interesting tv show.

Also, hi everyone, :newhere: *waves*
 
The middle of the 3 boys in the Elvis video where SHE has got the fluffier dress on. Its like he is a stick man trying to dance. From that video he looks the most emaciated out of them.
Know one will ever convince me who has seen that, that they didnt notice anything wrong. Its very clear.
A lot have thought must have gone into the dresses the girls have on because they are seen wearing them in 2013 and then again in 2015. We don't know what they were wearing in 2011 because it never shown them on the video.
2013 dresses were worn the 2years later they were worn again but each sibling did not have the dress on they worn the previous time. In 2013 the two youngest have criss crossing of ribbon on the chest. In 2015 its only the youngest who has this type dress on.

Watching the video again, the middle boy and the oldest girl appear to be the most emaciated.
 
I think the NOT wanting V neck shirts is related to their feelings of vulnerability because of strangling.
Idk, V-necks can be awkward when you bend over, or maybe feel too revealing at that age could be a modesty thing?

I had a bf who liked to strangle... and good riddance to the *advertiser censored*. I can't wear scarves or any thing constructive around my neck and am very claustrophobic to this day... 30-plus years later.
 
Re: them wanting a reality tv show, I suspect it wasn't a real plan, but describing that as a goal to far-away family members could be a part of creating the impression (that some relatives mentioned having), that the family was doing well -- so well that they would make an interesting tv show.

Also, hi everyone, :newhere: *waves*

Welcome!
 
This is the most horrifying form of child abuse I've ever heard of. It literally has made me vomit twice. These siblings must have been through so much. Its amazing and shows a strength that is unfathomable, that these siblings have not given up all hope of being free and happy. It may have been especially hard for the older ones to not give up as they may have experienced happier times and knew what they were missing.
I feel the oldest male was the one that learned the others about the outside world eg using phone to dial 911. Just building the courage to get the phone. They must have also needed a charger and give it enough power to dial out.
The oldest also looks slightly heavier in comparison to the others but I think that he was fed more to pass without questions in classes.
Concerning the refeeding. I remember the police feeding them sandwiches and drinks when the were rescued, that must have played havoc on their systems.
The middle of the 3 boys in the Elvis video where SHE has got the fluffier dress on. Its like he is a stick man trying to dance. From that video he looks the most emaciated out of them.
Know one will ever convince me who has seen that, that they didnt notice anything wrong. Its very clear.
A lot have thought must have gone into the dresses the girls have on because they are seen wearing them in 2013 and then again in 2015. We don't know what they were wearing in 2011 because it never shown them on the video.
2013 dresses were worn the 2years later they were worn again but each sibling did not have the dress on they worn the previous time. In 2013 the two youngest have criss crossing of ribbon on the chest. In 2015 its only the youngest who has this type dress on.
What's bugging me is, did they buy more dresses in bigger sizes in 2013 knowing they would need them again in 2 yes. This doesn't make sense why anyone would do that. The dresses on the older girls actually look longer in the 2015 video. Do shops in america stock the same dresses for that long.
I have a feeling they might have been made instead of shop bought.
Another little thing that's niggling is people who generally post family photos to face book like to show a snap shot of the happiest times as a family together. Looking down my Facebook feed at Xmas you see family photos of children near Xmas trees, kids opening presents, visiting Santa clause, things like that. I have not seen one photo of these siblings at ANY Christmas time. I know not all do the Xmas things like trees or presents buts its normally a snap shot of their own traditions. They put all other holiday photos on, why not Xmas. It breaks my heart this does and the trial is going to be pure hell if they don't plea guilty.
I can't see HER doing that she likes the spot light too much.

It would be very difficult to find dresses like that in the USA, even using on-line sources. I think you are correct, someone made them. The styling is very out of date. To me, they look like early 1970's styles, except for the length.
 
My first thought also - a target.

The image that I’ve seen is partially covered by the headline. I wonder if it is a picture of a pregnant person? A smiling baby in a tummy?
 
I have been wondering about those journals. It is interesting that they allowed the children to write in them, but in retrospect it may have just been another way to control the children's every thought. Parents would most likely read everything written and critique them.

Another interesting aspect of the journals that has been proposed on here is the idea that for certain personality disordered individuals, they like to brag about their crimes... could serve as a record you know.


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I agree with everything you've said here minus intellectual disability. Curious what leads you to that conclusion. I will also add that BPD is not limited to the raging and not all so the self destructive behaviors. Also any dual diagnoses, such as narcissistic PD which frequently co-occurs, can really influence how the symptom set of BPD manifests. There is also a lot of literature hat suggests that intelligent, strong willed kids who challenge boundaries (LT's personality as a kid) growing up in an environment LT did leads to BPD. Kids like that often consider themselves equal to adults in terms of power dynamics and respond much better to an authoritative ( significant freedom to do as one pleases but within clearly identified limits) vs authoritarian (do as I say no questions asked) environment. Being relegated to that lower power position only fuels their need for interpersonal control. And thus a cycle is born where the child acts out, parent represses, child becomes resentful, and a pattern develops where the child only receives attention when acting out. I don't know if I'm explaining that very well but what I'm getting at is because they never feel in control of anything. in authoritative environments the child is enabled to make decisions for him/herself and if those decisions are outside the established boundaries the child is given an explanation as to why. This allows them to feel in control of things. all of that is true for child development in general, but with certain inborn personality types it can really tip the scales. authoritarian parents (to the degree lt's weee also tend to be very cold, which leads to poor attachment style, further increasing risk of PD).
Where I come from with the borderline is the high need for interpersonal control. My ex sis in law has BPD and she intermittently idealizes my niece and berates her for random things (such as the "playing in the water" punishment here) the next. She is known to lock her in her room for hours while she (ex sis in law) goes about her day and doing what she wants. She only interacts with her when it's convenient or would make her look good in the public eye ( Disneyland, wedding chapel in this case). When she gets in a rage she has been physically abusive as well. And don't worry-- cos has been called numerous times on her. She's tried to kill my bro in law more than once, and the paranoia is out of this world sometimes. She makes my niece tell her how much she loves mommy and how great mommy is. It's disgusting. Somehow tho the state of Texas believes that children are better off with their mothers. Add in the excellent manipulation skills and their pseudo public self, and you have a perfect storm. so my bro in law hasn't get full custody . My niece is intellectually disabled which makes proving this difficult too. Teacher's are afraid of moms possible retribution so are rejecting to get involved. Sorry to write a book.


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The mild intellectual disability is speculation, but something that I have wondered about from the beginning, due to her childlike affect in the Vegas Videos and her regression in general. (But that could be trauma) Obsession with Disney, maybe loving her children only when they are little and like "dolls". Her inappropriate affect in court.

I agree with you on the NPD, and that BPD is not limited to raging. But raging and non suicidal self harm are hallmarks of BPD.

As far as her challenging boundaries etc. in childhood. We don't know much about her childhood home and family dynamics to come to the conclusion that her challenging of boundaries was somehow out of the norm for adolescence. It is normal for that age group to challenge their parents and to seek independence. Also, what you and I may see as normal boundary setting , may have been extreme in her family home. And I think it was. I think her father was an Evangelical preacher. Patriarchal themes toward women and girls would have been way above the norm. Demanding submissiveness and modesty. So her normal rebelliousness would have been seen as absolutely pathological when it wasn't. It was possibly normal in a more extreme household with particular religious and patriarchal themes.

Her mother supported her relationship with an adult male because behind her father's back. (She didn't protect LT from that and did not provide adequate supervision, so there are actually poor boundaries from Mom in that particular scenario). Dad found out and was FURIOUS and responded by telling LT, a child "You made your choice, don't come back". This is an extreme and inappropriate reaction from a parent. Inadequate supervision of a minor, again. Her parents ultimately divorced due this scenario. Mom defied Dad. Apparently a 'No No".

She may be borderline, but I just don't get those vibes first and foremost. I really don't. But it very well may be.

I am sorry to hear about your family member. The one thing about BPD, loved ones will often describe it as "Feeling like they are walking on eggshells" constantly as to not trigger an episode of rage. It is awful. Another way to describe interacting with a BPD person is they act like " A toddler with fangs" but they are actually a grown adult.

Challenging of boundaries is totally normal in adolescence. The primary caregivers and parents reaction to it and boundary setting is what matters. LT's mother appeared to have NO boundaries, supporting an inappropriate relationship with a grown man when she was 16 in secret from her husband and LT's father. LT's father had a very extreme "spare the rod" reaction to it (after DT took LT across state lines and the police were involved) and effectively abandoned his minor child. We can see totally inappropriate parenting in this one incident that we "know" of.

I still get the initial impressions that I mentioned earlier. They could be wrong. I've never met her and we all know so little.

Thanks for sharing.

ALL MOO
 
It would be very difficult to find dresses like that in the USA, even using on-line sources. I think you are correct, someone made them. The styling is very out of date. To me, they look like early 1970's styles, except for the length.

I was thinking the dresses were hand-made, too. The pattern looks like a very common sewing pattern that you can find in fabric shops. It seems like something people did long ago, but my mother-in-law used to make dresses for my wife all the time, back in the 80's and 90's.
 
He depicted his own body as a target. A human bullseye.

I feel sick.
Good insight! Yes, a target - shows great creativity and imagination. The expression is fearful and looking sideways for some terrible monster's arrival, overall thinks he is"fat", he's trapped in the "fat" body, the helpless stick arms and stick hands. I read somewhere that abused children often draw stick figures, like a depiction of the emptiness of their lives.
 
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