CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #5

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This is the most horrifying form of child abuse I've ever heard of. It literally has made me vomit twice. These siblings must have been through so much. Its amazing and shows a strength that is unfathomable, that these siblings have not given up all hope of being free and happy. It may have been especially hard for the older ones to not give up as they may have experienced happier times and knew what they were missing.
I feel the oldest male was the one that learned the others about the outside world eg using phone to dial 911. Just building the courage to get the phone. They must have also needed a charger and give it enough power to dial out.
The oldest also looks slightly heavier in comparison to the others but I think that he was fed more to pass without questions in classes.
Concerning the refeeding. I remember the police feeding them sandwiches and drinks when the were rescued, that must have played havoc on their systems.
The middle of the 3 boys in the Elvis video where SHE has got the fluffier dress on. Its like he is a stick man trying to dance. From that video he looks the most emaciated out of them.
Know one will ever convince me who has seen that, that they didnt notice anything wrong. Its very clear.
A lot have thought must have gone into the dresses the girls have on because they are seen wearing them in 2013 and then again in 2015. We don't know what they were wearing in 2011 because it never shown them on the video.
2013 dresses were worn the 2years later they were worn again but each sibling did not have the dress on they worn the previous time. In 2013 the two youngest have criss crossing of ribbon on the chest. In 2015 its only the youngest who has this type dress on.
What's bugging me is, did they buy more dresses in bigger sizes in 2013 knowing they would need them again in 2 yes. This doesn't make sense why anyone would do that. The dresses on the older girls actually look longer in the 2015 video. Do shops in america stock the same dresses for that long.
I have a feeling they might have been made instead of shop bought.
Another little thing that's niggling is people who generally post family photos to face book like to show a snap shot of the happiest times as a family together. Looking down my Facebook feed at Xmas you see family photos of children near Xmas trees, kids opening presents, visiting Santa clause, things like that. I have not seen one photo of these siblings at ANY Christmas time. I know not all do the Xmas things like trees or presents buts its normally a snap shot of their own traditions. They put all other holiday photos on, why not Xmas. It breaks my heart this does and the trial is going to be pure hell if they don't plea guilty.
I can't see HER doing that she likes the spot light too much.

BBM

I thought LT might have bought several bolts of the same material then took them to a dressmaker with a specific pattern to make in different sizes. That way she would have had material left over to make other dresses in the future "vow renewal's".
 
Not questioning that you are correct, but.... if there could be previous crimes in another state isn't it important that this is investigated so this evil pair are held to account and judged on the full force of whatever state's laws?
Is each state so independent of each other? Where does Federal Law come in to play ?

Lots of questions sorry, just trying to grasp the differences from this side of the pond.

Each state is independent when it comes to criminal investigations/charges/trials/sentencing.

The feds wouldn't be involved unless a federal crime had been committed.
 
About whether or not one of them was more dominant or more pathological....

I don't think we know enough to make informed conclusions, other than they were equally aware of the abuse, both participated, and neither could possibly have felt any remorse whatsoever about the incalculable damage they were doing to those survivors over three DECADES.

One big 'ole clue, though, is extremely telling, and that is the fact of a 24-25 year old man with a college degree choosing to pursue a16 year old high school girl.

According to her sister (grains of salt), this was a girl being raised in a strict "religious" household who wasn't allowed to date. If that's true, how well could she possibly have known him, or even THOUGHT that she knew him? He supposedly promised to give her everything she could ever want. What did that mean to her, beyond simply the opportunity to escape her family?

Whatever fantasy sugar plums were dancing in her head, the core reality IMO was that he deliberately chose someone who couldn't be his equal, which again IMO means he chose a girl, not a woman, so he could be in control.

Beyond that are questions . ..

Is it relevant that he in fact seemingly didn't marry her of his own volition? They could have applied for a marriage license the day they arrived in Texas, but didn't, and didn't marry until they were dragged back to WV (allegedly for that purpose).

Also verifiable: the wholesale neglect of their finances and homes began early on, certainly by 1997.

Survivor #1 was 9 years old in 1997. She was 11 and had just finished 3rd grade when they moved to a remote rural area, where neither she or her siblings were allowed to attend school, and where they began to be "disappeared" altogether into a house.


We also know that survivor #8 was sexually abused in some fashion for at least a year, from the ages of 11-12.

Is the timing of their move to seclusion when survivor #1 was 11 a coincidence, or an indication of what might have been the beginning of sexual predation by the man-monster that one or both of the monsters was afraid might be revealed?

(Snipped by me)

I'm glad you brought this up! For a college graduate in his 20's to want to date, let alone marry, a HIGH SCHOOL girl of 16 is gross, creepy, and NOT NORMAL. I want to shout that from the rooftops. When I was in high school I had a friend of 16 who was dating some guy in his 20's (not even a college grad, just some random nogoodnik with a menial job) and everyone, except my friend, thought it was creepy and wrong! People in their 20s who date high school students want someone young and naive, to control and abuse! If DT had been on the up and up he'd have dated/married a woman his own age. College, ffs, that's a great place to meet people your age! That's an actual benefit of college - not just knowledge and a degree, but meeting new people and making friends. Even if you stay home and go to community college, you still meet new people! Marrying a high school girl of 16 under those circumstances is a giant honking red flag with a Jolly Roger on it.

Sperm donor is every bit as culpable as egg donor and I have none, zero, nada, 0 sympathy for either one.
 
thank you & you are welcome ! I hope it helps !!!

May I tell you I found it really helpful. I'm sure it isn't easy for you to return to those times in your mind, but your post was really valuable to others and you are such a brave and courageous person.
I send you love, strength and all best wishes for a happy future. x
 
Each state is independent when it comes to criminal investigations/charges/trials/sentencing.

The feds wouldn't be involved unless a federal crime had been committed.


More questions sorry. So what constitutes a Federal crime as against a crime committed by the same people but in different states?
 
From today show link:

Sister also said DT drove LT to AL to hook up with some man they met. Went back to same hotel room and bed some time later and slept together.

That may help explain vow renewals (if you believe her).

That's new to me. Is LT competing with her sister or just one-upping her rebellion? So many strange dynamics...
 
Not questioning that you are correct, but.... if there could be previous crimes in another state isn't it important that this is investigated so this evil pair are held to account and judged on the full force of whatever state's laws?
Is each state so independent of each other? Where does Federal Law come in to play ?

Lots of questions sorry, just trying to grasp the differences from this side of the pond.

In the USA, the states are the ones who prosecute crimes that are committed within that state. Most crimes are defined by state law, and each state has different laws and procedures.

There are some federal criminal laws, but those usually have to do with crimes that cross state lines or affect specific federal interests, like bank robbery, terrorism, crimes against the federal government, etc.

The offense of child abuse would fall primarily under state law. The federal government might get involved if there were human trafficking (since this is a crime that is deemed to cross state lines), but that is not at issue here.

For Texas to get involved, law enforcement in Texas would have to be convinced that 1) a crime occurred in Texas, that 2) they could prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and that 3) the statute of limitations had not passed. It seems to me that it would not be easy to prove a crime against a child that happened eight years ago or more.

Furthermore, if California prosecutes and DT and LT receive long sentences (which is very likely to occur), then what would be gained by bringing the pair back to Texas for another trial? Texas is going to be pragmatic about it. If the Turpins are going to be in prison in California for the rest of their lives, then Texas is not going to spend the time and money on another prosecution. There are also real logistical problems with a Texas prosecution beyond the 8-year time lag. For instance, how are you going to get the child witnesses to appear in a Texas court? Do you think that would be helpful to their recovery to have to endure a long trek to Texas, an indefinite wait, and having to face their parents in court again? No, it will not happen.
 

From your link (though it is the DM) WTF -

Teresa Robinette, the younger sister of California 'house of horrors' mom Louise Turpin, appeared on Megyn Kelly Today on Monday
Robinette revealed a startling conversation she had with her sister, around 2009
She says her sister called her up and told her about how her husband, David, was driving her to Alabama to have sex with a man she met online
A year later, Louise allegedly told her sister that her husband was driving her back to Alabama so they could have sex together in the same hotel room
 
The mild intellectual disability is speculation, but something that I have wondered about from the beginning, due to her childlike affect in the Vegas Videos and her regression in general. (But that could be trauma) Obsession with Disney, maybe loving her children only when they are little and like "dolls". Her inappropriate affect in court.

I agree with you on the NPD, and that BPD is not limited to raging. But raging and non suicidal self harm are hallmarks of BPD.

As far as her challenging boundaries etc. in childhood. We don't know much about her childhood home and family dynamics to come to the conclusion that her challenging of boundaries was somehow out of the norm for adolescence. It is normal for that age group to challenge their parents and to seek independence. Also, what you and I may see as normal boundary setting , may have been extreme in her family home. And I think it was. I think her father was an Evangelical preacher. Patriarchal themes toward women and girls would have been way above the norm. Demanding submissiveness and modesty. So her normal rebelliousness would have been seen as absolutely pathological when it wasn't. It was possibly normal in a more extreme household with particular religious and patriarchal themes.

Her mother supported her relationship with an adult male because behind her father's back. (She didn't protect LT from that and did not provide adequate supervision, so there are actually poor boundaries from Mom in that particular scenario). Dad found out and was FURIOUS and responded by telling LT, a child "You made your choice, don't come back". This is an extreme and inappropriate reaction from a parent. Inadequate supervision of a minor, again. Her parents ultimately divorced due this scenario. Mom defied Dad. Apparently a 'No No".

She may be borderline, but I just don't get those vibes first and foremost. I really don't. But it very well may be.

I am sorry to hear about your family member. The one thing about BPD, loved ones will often describe it as "Feeling like they are walking on eggshells" constantly as to not trigger an episode of rage. It is awful. Another way to describe interacting with a BPD person is they act like " A toddler with fangs" but they are actually a grown adult.

Challenging of boundaries is totally normal in adolescence. The primary caregivers and parents reaction to it and boundary setting is what matters. LT's mother appeared to have NO boundaries, supporting an inappropriate relationship with a grown man when she was 16 in secret from her husband and LT's father. LT's father had a very extreme "spare the rod" reaction to it (after DT took LT across state lines and the police were involved) and effectively abandoned his minor child. We can see totally inappropriate parenting in this one incident that we "know" of.

I still get the initial impressions that I mentioned earlier. They could be wrong. I've never met her and we all know so little.

Thanks for sharing.

ALL MOO

I don't have a very complete picture of either parent at this point, so far as being able to fit them into any sort of cohesive pattern. However, one thing that I noticed/suspect, has to do with LT's emotional presentation. In particular that big smile at one point during the trial. On the one hand, she could simply be deep in denial about the seriousness of the charges, which allows her to react that way to something that was said. But, what I wonder is if she is more typically inappropriate in her emotional reactions. Not quite certain how to categorize that, but I have seen it in people I would consider to be emotionally detached. IOW in a constant state of faking responses through some intellectual over-ride (or learned pattern), the way that they THINK a normal person should respond. This could be the result of early and profound abuse. Someone a few years back popularized the term "children without a conscience" to describe children who essentially grow into pathological criminals/killers. Like many things, the term then became over-applied (some claiming that children of working mothers who are cared for in day care centers were vulnerable--a profound distortion), and I haven't heard much about it lately.

But, looking into LT's dead eyes, and her apparent fantasy world, this could be a psychological fit, particularly with some of the hints having been dropped by her family of origin regarding abuse, etc.

Again, hard to piece together based on those videos and the courtroom appearance.
 
These people never deal with what they have created. They continually start from scratch.

Get a home in good condition, simply not maintain it even in terms of basic cleaning or throwing out trash, and then abandon it and start from scratch in a new place.

Get an animal, care for it until the newness wears off and/or it becomes an adult, discard it with the home, and start from scratch with a new pet.

Have a baby, care for it until it becomes an individual separate from the mother (perhaps around the time it is no longer breastfeeding and is eating real food), discard it (probably consigning any care of it to the older ones), and start again with a new child.

Spice, what does this say, psychologically?

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lol I'm not spice but am a bit of a human behaviorist too. It's very indicative of pathological narcissism. She has very strong need for admiration and the need to be needed. That's how she "props up" her self esteem. Inside she's very insecure inside (prob stemming from the dysfunctional family environment she grew up in) As kids grow older, of course the become more independent and more self focused, so to use an addiction metaphor-- this need for love and admiration and to just be needed is her drug. Younger kids give her a better high than the older because they are more dependent. But of course she also has fears of abandonment, so can't let the grown ones go either. That and they'd report her probably - hence the need to keep them prisoner.
As far as DT, idk. Can't figure him Out. He's a sicko too but in a diff way than LT. I'm sure Spice has some good input here too. We were kinda chatting it up about this last night at some point.


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More questions sorry. So what constitutes a Federal crime as against a crime committed by the same people but in different states?

Generally speaking, something that crosses state lines like kidnapping, or something that happens on federal property like a military base or national park. Federal crimes are also things that involved interstate commerce or failure to pay federal taxes. Actually, there is a possible case to be made that the adult children were kidnapped across state lines, but I don't know if they federal authorities will take the case.
Every possible case is not investigated if it is already apparent someone will spend the rest of their lives in prison or get the death penalty in another jurisdiction. Sometimes a feds or a state will wait to see the results of another trail before deciding to prosecute. For example, if the Turpins received a light sentence or were acquitted in California, Texas or the Feds might decide to prosecute.
 
Turpin family moved to Rio Vista in 1999.
Purchased the double wide 5/2004.
They moved into double wide and out of brick house. We don't know what shape house was in when moved in. But from all accounts they lived in double wide, not in brick house again. House was built in 1975 from what I have seen. So jmho could have been cheaper to buy the double wide than make repairs to house.

I saw a photo of -DT, LT and -DT parents in double wide, sitting on the same brown couch sectional as the kids sitting on with infant. The photo is imprinted with date 1/4/2002. So I don't believe the just left all stuff behind. Don't know what maxed out credit cards for though.

Where did you see that picture?
 
I agree. I used to sew and unless you’re set up with a sewing table and a good machine, sewing that many dresses would’ve been a huge undertaking. I recently made a dog coat for one of my little doxies and by the time I bought the fabric, thread, Velcro, etc., and made it, I probably would’ve come out ahead just buying one online. Lol

I looked around for sites for handmade dresses and on Etsy, and I can’t find any place where there’s anything even close to those styles of purple plaid dresses though? Maybe she bought an old 80’s Butterick pattern and found a local seamstress to make them all?



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Google retro plaid dresses. Plenty similar ones available cheaply online, just not through etsy.

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About whether or not one of them was more dominant or more pathological....

I don't think we know enough to make informed conclusions, other than they were equally aware of the abuse, both participated, and neither could possibly have felt any remorse whatsoever about the incalculable damage they were doing to those survivors over three DECADES.

One big 'ole clue, though, is extremely telling, and that is the fact of a 24-25 year old man with a college degree choosing to pursue a16 year old high school girl.

According to her sister (grains of salt), this was a girl being raised in a strict "religious" household who wasn't allowed to date. If that's true, how well could she possibly have known him, or even THOUGHT that she knew him? He supposedly promised to give her everything she could ever want. What did that mean to her, beyond simply the opportunity to escape her family?

Whatever fantasy sugar plums were dancing in her head, the core reality IMO was that he deliberately chose someone who couldn't be his equal, which again IMO means he chose a girl, not a woman, so he could be in control.

Beyond that are questions . ..

Is it relevant that he in fact seemingly didn't marry her of his own volition? They could have applied for a marriage license the day they arrived in Texas, but didn't, and didn't marry until they were dragged back to WV (allegedly for that purpose).

Also verifiable: the wholesale neglect of their finances and homes began early on, certainly by 1997.

Survivor #1 was 9 years old in 1997. She was 11 and had just finished 3rd grade when they moved to a remote rural area, where neither she or her siblings were allowed to attend school, and where they began to be "disappeared" altogether into a house.


We also know that survivor #8 was sexually abused in some fashion for at least a year, from the ages of 11-12.

Is the timing of their move to seclusion when survivor #1 was 11 a coincidence, or an indication of what might have been the beginning of sexual predation by the man-monster that one or both of the monsters was afraid might be revealed?

Whose choice was it to move away from the older children (to the double wide, presumably), and what motivated the choice?

Monster-man began sexually abusing survivor #8 almost exactly one year after the first trip to LV for the renewal of marriage vows. Is it possible there is a connection between his (possibly serial) sexual abuse of survivors and the very unusual frequency (and dates) of those marriage vows renewals?

And, about bringing all the survivors on those trips to LV. It is impossible to believe the monsters brought them along for any altruistic purpose. So why bring them? Perhaps they were afraid of someone escaping if all the survivors were left on their own, or of the survivors joining in to make so much noise they might be rescued.

Or....(or an and/or): they brought the survivors to torment them psychologically. Here is the big wide world --full of magic and marvel and food and showers and laughter and fun and semingly kind people- that you will be allowed to see only when we allow you to see it, but that you will never be allowed to join, but it's more satisfying that you know what you are being denied.

And....has anyone thought about incredibly cruel it was of those monsters to force the survivors, especially the teenagers and adults, to celebrate ANYONE's marriage, given that they were all being denied the opportunity to even have friends, much less to date and fall in love and marry?

They were ordered to smile and dance and clap to celebrate their torturers, to celebrate their torturers having what they were all being denied, and to do all this in the name of "love."

-----
Last, almost related thought (;)) about her seeming obsession with Disney stuff.

One possibility is that in fact her obsession didn't derive from her own interests, but because she was aware it infantilized her, which she may have thought would keep her husband interested in her.

Re: the dating. I'm pretty sure I heard or read that she was allowed to date. Also both an aunt and her sister (who I know of a bit of a flake) talked about that LT was a strong headed rebellious child from an early age. Apparently too her mother was very lax with boundaries while her father was very strict and she did a lot of things behind her fathers back. So I imagine she was more complicit in the dating and ultimately pre marital set than it may at first seem.


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More questions sorry. So what constitutes a Federal crime as against a crime committed by the same people but in different states?

No problem. Federal crimes are violations of federal, not state law. Examples of federal crimes: mail fraud and child *advertiser censored*.

Each state has it's own laws (and they differ) about what constitutes various criminal offenses and what penalties can be applied.

It's entirely possible that Texas will conduct separate investigations and bring their own charges against the monsters. That happens, especially when a second involved state thinks the judicial outcome in state #1 isn't satisfactory, or when state #2 feels the need to act for intrastate legal or political reasons.
 
From your link (though it is the DM) WTF -

Teresa Robinette, the younger sister of California 'house of horrors' mom Louise Turpin, appeared on Megyn Kelly Today on Monday
Robinette revealed a startling conversation she had with her sister, around 2009
She says her sister called her up and told her about how her husband, David, was driving her to Alabama to have sex with a man she met online
A year later, Louise allegedly told her sister that her husband was driving her back to Alabama so they could have sex together in the same hotel room

I wish this sister would stfu. She should be giving this info to LE only!! Not saying I believe her but fgs shut up!! If this goes to trial, she will be immediately discredited by the defense for appearing on TV. I really hope she’s not being paid for her appearances. Not to mention the children have enough horror to deal with. They don’t need to hear these tidbits of gossip now or ever, true or not.

I just don’t get some people. Ugh


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@ Bill Carson and Bluebonnet_72 Your replies and explanations are much appreciated. I have to apologise for my ignorance of USA law, it is all so different from here of course but you have helped me a lot.

OIMO though this couple should have their past deeply investigated wherever they lived. Until this happens noone knows what they have done in the past decades, and for that also they need to be held accountable.

ETA must add Hope4More Just seen your response, thanks.
 
Please can someone help me out and explain this to me in really simple terms? Coming from an island as small as the UK I get really confused with your different state laws and how charges work for crimes committed in more than one state.

If LE believe that the same crimes that they have been charged with also occurred when they lived in Texas, i.e. the same offences against the children but going back to before they lived in California, would this mean additional, separate charges to those already issued or would it mean extending the time period in the detail of the existing charges? Would proof that the children were abused in Texas increase their likely sentences?

Clearly if LE were to be looking for human remains then that’s another story altogether.
When crimes are committed in multiple states, those are all separate charges. States will sometimes extradite a prisoner from another state after they've been to trial in the other state. Likewise, federal charges are completely separate.

If you look at the missing/found Colorado girls, the kidnapper is facing federal charges and separate state charges in Texas. But he also has additional crimes in Louisiana that he could theoretically be sent back there for trial in the future.

Typically, we tend to allow the whichever state has the strongest or most serious case against a criminal to go to trial first. If they get life for something, other states may not bother to extradite and try their case. Also, federal charges often go first. But every case is different.

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From today show link:

Sister also said DT drove LT to AL to hook up with some man they met. Went back to same hotel room and bed some time later and slept together.

That may help explain vow renewals (if you believe her).

That's new to me. Is LT competing with her sister or just one-upping her rebellion? So many strange dynamics...

I'd take everything from sister Teresa with a 500 lb. block of salt. Like sister Elizabeth Jane, they seem to be embellishing and maybe even making stories up as they go along. Very poor witnesses, IMO.
One thing she did say that perked my ears was that she had been in touch w/ CPS and a detective in Ca. Sure
hope she doesn't plan to try to foster/adopt any of the children. This is one messed up family and these children
need stability and people who really care about them.
On another note, DA said children are talking to investigators and will be witnesses at trial.
 
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