CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #6

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I was surprised to read the donation amount so far. It would barely get them a small starter home in a safe neighborhood in my local real estate market.

The Riverside University Health System Foundation, which is collecting money for the siblings, so far has received 1,500 donations totaling $120,000, spokeswoman Kim Trone said.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/2...y-planned-move-to-oklahoma-before-arrest.html

I live in one of the cheapest parts of the country and that would not buy a home big enough for 13 people. Actually, it would barely pay for a caregiver for a year...
 
The adults are still under the purview of Adult Protective Services, though, right? So my hope is that there will still be people outside of the Assisted Living monitoring the situation. The worst abuses at places like this come when unscrupulous or apathetic staff knows that no one is looking out for residents.

I'm also hoping that separation of the children was done by design and in consideration of their respective needs rather than simply because of not having an adequate way of keeping them together. Beyond concerns about independence, amount of attention devoted to individual needs, etc., it has also occurred to me that, while it is very sweet to think of all of these siblings having unambiguously close and loving relationships with one another, that may well not be the case. When you read testimony of Holocaust survivors, one of the terribly dehumanizing elements of the camps that people don't always think of is the way desperation could override someone's normally compassionate and giving nature. Yes, in any situation, there may be heroes who share their crust of bread with someone even weaker, but there are also going to be starving people fighting each other for that final bit of food. In fact, the latter is going to be a lot more common than the former. So I always want to take a step back when I see posts speculating about Survivor 1 giving her food to the others or Survivor 8 finding the strength to escape primarily for her siblings' sake. Because that may be true, but it may not be -- and these children are blameless survivors even if their response to their captivity wasn't always as heroic as we'd like it to be.
 
I was surprised to read the donation amount so far. It would barely get them a small starter home in a safe neighborhood in my local real estate market.

The Riverside University Health System Foundation, which is collecting money for the siblings, so far has received 1,500 donations totaling $120,000, spokeswoman Kim Trone said.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/2...y-planned-move-to-oklahoma-before-arrest.html

and the Chamber of Commerce fund has collected $65,000. There's a blurb in the news this morning that as of a few days ago, total so far was close to $200,000.
Really though, with the cost of assisted living in some facilities that money won't last long for all the adult children.
 
and the Chamber of Commerce fund has collected $65,000. There's a blurb in the news this morning that as of a few days ago, total so far was close to $200,000.
Really though, with the cost of assisted living in some facilities that money won't last long for all the adult children.

Even if the children qualify for Medicaid or Medicare and their medical needs taken care of, we're still looking at housing in southern California which is one of the most expensive real estate markets in the country. $200,000 would barely cover the cost of a 1-bedroom condo in some places. So yes, you're right. That money isn't going to stretch far, for sure.
 
Assisted Living isn't a terrible idea IMO. I picture where my grandmother was with private or semi-private bedrooms and a communal living area. Meal service three times a day (learning how to eat normally including using utensils). Round the clock staff (even in middle of night when they are used to being up). I dunno, but I am kinda warming to the idea that this might be an ideal first step.
 
The adults are still under the purview of Adult Protective Services, though, right? So my hope is that there will still be people outside of the Assisted Living monitoring the situation. The worst abuses at places like this come when unscrupulous or apathetic staff knows that no one is looking out for residents.

I'm also hoping that separation of the children was done by design and in consideration of their respective needs rather than simply because of not having an adequate way of keeping them together. Beyond concerns about independence, amount of attention devoted to individual needs, etc., it has also occurred to me that, while it is very sweet to think of all of these siblings having unambiguously close and loving relationships with one another, that may well not be the case. When you read testimony of Holocaust survivors, one of the terribly dehumanizing elements of the camps that people don't always think of is the way desperation could override someone's normally compassionate and giving nature. Yes, in any situation, there may be heroes who share their crust of bread with someone even weaker, but there are also going to be starving people fighting each other for that final bit of food. In fact, the latter is going to be a lot more common than the former. So I always want to take a step back when I see posts speculating about Survivor 1 giving her food to the others or Survivor 8 finding the strength to escape primarily for her siblings' sake. Because that may be true, but it may not be -- and these children are blameless survivors even if their response to their captivity wasn't always as heroic as we'd like it to be.

Very well said, thank you.
I've often called my very dysfunctional birth family as a Rat's Nest. Because, just as you said Datchery, there is lots
of in-fighting for resources, food, beveridges, clothes, attention, favors, toys, etc.
this is the way rats live within their nest. Each man for themselves. If you don't eat it fast, someone else will.
these children have most likely never been taught co-operative, loving relationships. Their whole lives have been
controlled by fear of punishment. There is so much work ahead to try and 'normalize their behaviors, especially the older ones. I truly hope they're not abandoned when their case goes off the front page of the news.
 
The adults are still under the purview of Adult Protective Services, though, right? So my hope is that there will still be people outside of the Assisted Living monitoring the situation. The worst abuses at places like this come when unscrupulous or apathetic staff knows that no one is looking out for residents.

I'm also hoping that separation of the children was done by design and in consideration of their respective needs rather than simply because of not having an adequate way of keeping them together. Beyond concerns about independence, amount of attention devoted to individual needs, etc., it has also occurred to me that, while it is very sweet to think of all of these siblings having unambiguously close and loving relationships with one another, that may well not be the case. When you read testimony of Holocaust survivors, one of the terribly dehumanizing elements of the camps that people don't always think of is the way desperation could override someone's normally compassionate and giving nature. Yes, in any situation, there may be heroes who share their crust of bread with someone even weaker, but there are also going to be starving people fighting each other for that final bit of food. In fact, the latter is going to be a lot more common than the former. So I always want to take a step back when I see posts speculating about Survivor 1 giving her food to the others or Survivor 8 finding the strength to escape primarily for her siblings' sake. Because that may be true, but it may not be -- and these children are blameless survivors even if their response to their captivity wasn't always as heroic as we'd like it to be.

I can't speak to services in California and even counties vary in terms of services, but in my State I would see it this way. Adult protective services will have a case manager, each adult will have a conservator from the probate court, the local mental health board may provide a case manager or social worker and certainly mental health services, the local MRDD board may have a worker depending on qualification of the individual. Each of these adults will have a team helping them individually. If the donations are protected from Medicaid consideration, Medicaid will pay for assisted living with a waiver.
 

I'd swear somewhere I saw a picture of a different brown wood bed frame with rope on it (bed wasn't tilted as the brown bed in these photos).
That photo of the white bed frame clearly shows zip ties (twitter link, click on pics to enlarge).
 
For the minor siblings, I think splitting them up (for now) was deliberate. We have many unknowns. The medical staff and team of social workers that go in from CSB have been observing these children in the hospital. You have 13 people who all have behavior issues of some sort and a complete lack of basic living skills. 5 or 6 kids with these kinds of issues is too much for a foster family right now. They need as much individual attention as they can get in these initial stages and to learn some Behavioral and living skills before one foster family can handle them. I truly believe that they will later be placed together when the team feels they are ready. I also believe that all 13 will be having visits together during this time.

JMO

Re BBM
I have been thinking about this a lot and I think you are right. I was hoping they would keep them together but I think it is probably too much to be able to expect one family would be able to handle and raise them properly. 13 children. Its a lot.

I hope they are allowed to visit with each other regularly and I am sure they have discussed that for their protocol.

Hopefully the children will understand and maybe they have sub groups already where certain ones hung out with certain ones and they may be able to keep their sub groups together.

This is another reason I get so angry with the parents and one word that keeps coming up to me is them being very selfish. They knew what they were doing was wrong and they kept having more and more kids and even talked about having another new one and did not care what would happen to the kids if they were caught. Well now they are caught and authorities are left to try to figure out how best to care for their kids.

I am willing to bet the parents do not care much and are not even asking about how authorities are handling their children. They come across as very selfish to me and having children to them was done selfishly for their own selfish reasons. The wedding renewals are pretty obvious they were using their children as tools just to help themselves.
 
The adults are still under the purview of Adult Protective Services, though, right? So my hope is that there will still be people outside of the Assisted Living monitoring the situation. The worst abuses at places like this come when unscrupulous or apathetic staff knows that no one is looking out for residents.

I'm also hoping that separation of the children was done by design and in consideration of their respective needs rather than simply because of not having an adequate way of keeping them together. Beyond concerns about independence, amount of attention devoted to individual needs, etc., it has also occurred to me that, while it is very sweet to think of all of these siblings having unambiguously close and loving relationships with one another, that may well not be the case. When you read testimony of Holocaust survivors, one of the terribly dehumanizing elements of the camps that people don't always think of is the way desperation could override someone's normally compassionate and giving nature. Yes, in any situation, there may be heroes who share their crust of bread with someone even weaker, but there are also going to be starving people fighting each other for that final bit of food. In fact, the latter is going to be a lot more common than the former. So I always want to take a step back when I see posts speculating about Survivor 1 giving her food to the others or Survivor 8 finding the strength to escape primarily for her siblings' sake. Because that may be true, but it may not be -- and these children are blameless survivors even if their response to their captivity wasn't always as heroic as we'd like it to be.



I'm glad to read your post as I have had similar thoughts but didn't know how to phrase them.

I was sad to hear the children will be separated into various smaller groups, it would be wonderful to have a fairytale ending where they are all housed together with outside support - but that is my heart speaking and my head knows such a scenario is probably impossible.

We have no idea of the dynamics within the group of these poor children, none at all. I'm not even going to write down what the relationship could be between them after their horrendous lives but I think I'm rational enough to realise it may not be ideal.

I don't know, none of us do. So I am going to put my faith in the professional, experienced and knowledgeable authorities that are caring for them since their rescue. They will have been close enough to the survivors to have gained some understanding of what would benefit them the most, and I am sure these childrens' recovery is uppermost in whatever is planned for them.

While posting I take the opportunity to ask if in your country video or cctv is used in courts for children or vulnerable adults that need to give evidence? This would mean whomever of the survivors was required to give evidence would not need to attend court, nor see the accused. It is used in the UK in certain cases. I think putting any of these survivors through an open court process to give evidence would be cruel. AJIMO as usual.
 
I'd swear somewhere I saw a picture of a different brown wood bed frame with rope on it (bed wasn't tilted as the brown bed in these photos).
That photo of the white bed frame clearly shows zip ties (twitter link, click on pics to enlarge).

Thanks for sharing again as I didnt realize these were zip ties and I believe you are correct.

For those that dont know they make all sizes of zip ties. Small to Large.

In the attic of an old place where I lived I saw where air conditioner people put in the large silver lined flexible venting I saw huge zip ties that had to be about 2 or 3 feet long.
 
I agree with Bill. This will be a very difficult thing for the children (of all ages) to go through. I'm sure they love their parents, however unwarranted. It's human nature for kids to attach..it's what therapists are all about. Sadly. A heck of a lot more pain for all of them yet to go through..in my opinion. How do their young minds ever understand where they have been? Imo


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I agree with both you and Bill. I have a 19 year old grandson whose drug addicted, abusive mother lost custody of him when he was 7 years old. To this day, he loves her and wants to be loved by her - even after years of therapy. There's something about that mother/child bond that is indisputable, IMO.
 
They had to receive nutrition through IVs, right? I don't understand the debate about just how thin they were. If you ever weighed only 80 some pounds at some point and did not need IV-delivered nutrition, then your health situation was not comparable.

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About that, Do you have a link where it states they are on IV's?
 
I think this might be an interim move perhaps for their ongoing protection. All of these siblings need medical & developmental care. That they've never been to a dentist is horrifying. It seems like a deliberate separation into smaller groups to continue assess their needs. Nothing conclusive other than preliminary findings and needs gets determined in a week in a hospital. I think at six months they might have a much more comprehensive picture.

This being a criminal case means it is not going to disappear. I read the authorities are seeking to prevent the parents from contacting their children while under investigation. Hoping the foster care, and adult care is chosen with some longer term goals in mind. And maybe individual teams of medical oversight. That's my hope.

What happens to these siblings if (when) the parents are convicted? Who will advocate for them? Who has rights? Other family members? It seems there may be some legal challenges ahead? For this reason, until more is known, the donations might seem light now, but there is much uncertainty. So far, the extended family seems in the background but will that change?

For now, just getting these siblings nourished, sleeping, recovering physically to a stronger place will take time. Little kids bounce back quicker but I cannot imagine what the older siblings are facing, the damage done of decades of physical neglect might be much more serious than we know right now.
 
I hope that’s not true about an assisted living facility for the adults. [emoji22]

UGH. They will not receive intensive, individualized care that they need if the facility is anything like the expensive one I had my mom with alzheimers at briefly. Staff were all very nice, but there was only one nurse, and grossly untrained and underpaid staff with constant turnover. I hope that isn't the case for these kids.
 
UGH. They will not receive intensive, individualized care that they need if the facility is anything like the expensive one I had my mom with alzheimers at briefly. Staff were all very nice, but there was only one nurse, and grossly untrained and underpaid staff with constant turnover. I hope that isn't the case for these kids.

I imagine that with the kind of media attention this case is gathering, as well as the charges and impending court case, they're going to make darn sure that these children receive good care. Everything they do is being scrutinized at a minuscule level. They know this.

I had brain surgery 5 years ago and suffered some problems afterwards. I was placed in an assisted living facility for 6 months (I was 33 at the time) and it was wonderful. I had great care, both for my physical and mental health. So it varies.
 
For the minor siblings, I think splitting them up (for now) was deliberate. We have many unknowns. The medical staff and team of social workers that go in from CSB have been observing these children in the hospital. You have 13 people who all have behavior issues of some sort and a complete lack of basic living skills. 5 or 6 kids with these kinds of issues is too much for a foster family right now. They need as much individual attention as they can get in these initial stages and to learn some Behavioral and living skills before one foster family can handle them. I truly believe that they will later be placed together when the team feels they are ready. I also believe that all 13 will be having visits together during this time.

I don't think that is the case. It sounds to me like they were doing their best to keep them all together. But trying to find a single foster home for six children, just isn't going to happen. It's not uncommon for just two or three brothers and sisters to be split up and put in different foster homes. It must have taken a lot of work to get them all into two homes. There are just not a lot of people who have enough room for six foster children. Two or three maybe, six no way.
 
It does look like zip ties, or it could be small knots in the rope.
Wonder if it’s of if the kids in the photo hanging in the wall? Zooming in it looks like a baby or toddler.
Moo


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Agree does look like zipties. Bit one is around top bar and one is around spoke. Possibly to keep wooden spoke in place. Reminds me of a Jenny Lind crib as does other.
Look towards ceiling, you can see damage as in roof leaks like mentioned. Baldwin said a blue tarp was on roof. Looks like just used as storage at point of photo. They got double wide 4/2004.
 
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