CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #7

[TeaTime]

It is surprising to me, too. My children have Medicaid and it is recommended that they have dental visits every 6 months, beginning at age 1. Both of my kids have been to the dentist twice a year since they were a year old (my daughter had been to the dentist 6 or 7 times between ages one or two. She has soft enamel that caused cavities no matter how well and often we brushed and had to be put under anasthesia at almost age 2 to get caps on some of her teeth to protect them). We are diligent about keeping up with their dental health and brushing, but even so, they have had dental issues that required extra care. Yet, I have women in my moms' group who I consider affluent, and who have good insurance, who have 6 year olds who have not yet seen a dentist. It baffles me.

For the kids having possibly not even known to brush their teeth, though, and not having been to dentists ever, I can only imagine how painful their first dental visits will be. Add to that the malnourishment, and there are sure to be severe dental problems (IMO).

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It baffles me that people will pay $150 to get their hair colored every 6 weeks, have cable tv and cell phones, cars, a cigarette habit, drink, gamble, computers, wi-fi, manicures and pedicures, etc., etc., but balk at spending money for doctor visits.

The women you speak of probably have extremely high deductibles to pay before their private and expensive insurance picks up any of the bills. Someone paying $600 and up per month for insurance ($7,200 after tax dollars each year) can't meet the deductible too (often $6K and more out of pocket) as it has all spent on premiums. Imagine having to spend $13,200 before your insurance picks up the tab for anything. It is insurance that can't be used.

 

[cady]

A picture of a window with a star decoration on it was posted on an earlier thread. It was said that the picture showed that the screen had been cut out of that window and that is how the brave one escaped. Do we know for sure that that was the window from which she escaped? The portion of the screen that was supposedly cut looked like a perfect rectangle to me. I thought it looked more like a reflection of something than a cut. If anyone can find that picture and bring it forward, I'd appreciate it. TIA.

The screen cut looked way too perfect to me, as well. I DO think that is how she escaped, but it looks like it would have taken time, a decent tool, and a steady hand to make that cut. And it would have had to be done shortly before she escaped through it, because it was highly visible from the outside of the house, and would have been obvious if anyone opened the bedroom door and peeked in. JMO

 

[NondescriptUserName]

Children should see a dentist at about age four and should have regular cleanings . People do not realize how important dental care is.

Yes, so important. Also, seeing a dentist regularly can catch problems with their bites, alignment, etc. and get them to an orthodontist early as treatment is usually much easier and faster when they are young. The odds of 13 kids and no one needing braces seems impossible to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[mtnlites]

It baffles me that people will pay $150 to get their hair colored every 6 weeks, have cable tv and cell phones, cars, a cigarette habit, drink, gamble, computers, wi-fi, manicures and pedicures, etc., etc., but balk at spending money for doctor visits.

The women you speak of probably have extremely high deductibles to pay before their private and expensive insurance picks up any of the bills. Someone paying $600 and up per month for insurance ($7,200 after tax dollars each year) can't meet the deductible too (often $6K and more out of pocket) as it has all spent on premiums. Imagine having to spend $13,200 before your insurance picks up the tab for anything. It is insurance that can't be used.

Yep, that's our health insurance. $800 a month with a $10,000 deductible. I already mentioned how bad our dental insurance is.

 

[TeaTime]

I doubt any of the poor kids would be strong enough mentally to give evidence against those monsters, that might be too much to ask of them. It would be terrifying and traumatising for them to speak on camera about it, I think a live court scenario would be a lot more harrowing. IMO

The victims would spend hours and hours and hours being prepped for the courtroom so that they would not be frightened, often including trips to the empty courtroom beforehand so that they are familiar with the room. The very act of telling their stories over and over and over again to different people on their team makes it easier to tell the story one more time.

 

[Spellbound]

The screen cut looked way too perfect to me, as well. I DO think that is how she escaped, but it looks like it would have taken time, a decent tool, and a steady hand to make that cut. And it would have had to be done shortly before she escaped through it, because it was highly visible from the outside of the house, and would have been obvious if anyone opened the bedroom door and peeked in. JMO

I’ve thought about this screen and just realized .... you don’t always need a special tool to cut screen material. Screening may be made of a softer material like ours and a decent pair of scissors would work quickly and pretty easy. It os hard for me tomtell what material their screens were made of.

And seeing the bushes below the window, and the cut was made low, was it intentional, perhaps to keep anyone from noticing on a casual glance from outside?

 

[mtnlites]

I’ve thought about this screen and just realized .... you don’t always need a special tool to cut screen material. Screening may be made of a softer material like ours and a decent pair of scissors would work quickly and pretty easy. It os hard for me tomtell what material their screens were made of.

And seeing the bushes below the window, and the cut was made low, was it intentional, perhaps to keep anyone from noticing on a casual glance from outside?

I thought it was so that she could just slide right out of it. Make it flush with the windowsill so that she wouldn't have to climb over more screen.

 

[cady]

I keep wondering what on earth they DID all night. If everyone was awake, it's doubtful that a TV was on, or a radio.........Too much information via advertisements even if the content was fantasy. Videos? Maybe she was online all night. And what was HE doing? They weren't cleaning or cooking, that's for sure. I haven't read that there were books or magazines or any sort of hobby other that assaulting, and confining their children. I do hope that investigators looked through those hundreds of plastic bags for receipts......would offer some insight into purchasing habits. Were there grocery/supermarket bags in that collection? So many questions!

 

[A2FMNST]

Muir Woods house was closed on 8/29/2014.

Not sure if if someone wants to enter the month/day on the timeline.

 

[Spellbound]

I thought it was so that she could just slide right out of it. Make it flush with the windowsill so that she wouldn't have to climb over more screen.

You’re probably right. or maybe a combination of both of our ideas. If it had been cut higher up, it would have been even easier to get out. She kept it pretty low for a reason —- maybe it wasn’t as easy to cut as I think. And they were small enough to get through something I wouldn’t fit in, for sure.

 

[cady]

I’ve thought about this screen and just realized .... you don’t always need a special tool to cut screen material. Screening may be made of a softer material like ours and a decent pair of scissors would work quickly and pretty easy. It os hard for me tomtell what material their screens were made of.

And seeing the bushes below the window, and the cut was made low, was it intentional, perhaps to keep anyone from noticing on a casual glance from outside?

HMM an exacto knife could have made that cut quickly.....maybe the brother had one from school.....or so-called engineer father, or sewing equipment mother?

 

[TeaTime]

Yep, that's our health insurance. $800 a month with a $10,000 deductible. I already mentioned how bad our dental insurance is.

Don't get me started. LOL

 

[rsd1200]

I was thinking that if the siblings had mostly been on restricted diets (to put it mildly) and never got treats of sugary foods, maybe there have been limited cavities?

But, wisdom teeth is a good point, lots of people have impacted wisdom teeth. And there are other childhood injuries that are normal in growing up, not associated with abuse. I was well looked after and had a bad burn at about 18 months old, then I trapped my fingers in a door when I was about 3 or 4, and both of these incidents required hospital treatment. Then I had things like measles, mumps, rubella, and I needed GP care for those things. Lots of kids break an arm or a leg while playing, or hit their head badly. How could all of the siblings avoid all these normal childhood accidents and illnesses?

We've heard that one child was treated for a dog bit, maybe there was more healthcare in the earlier years and it's just that the siblings have been more restricted in their movements/actions and physically chained too, to avoid many of these things like broken bones in later years. But you can't avoid things like impacted wisdom teeth, you either get them or you don't, and being smaller in stature than they probably would have turned out if not for malnutrition, wouldn't that make impaction more likely if their jaws grew too small for their wisdom teeth to fit in their mouths?

But then there's one sibling who looks like he's missed out on eye treatment. I am wondering if another of them has scoliosis. These things we can conjecture were ignored by LT and DT out of neglect, and I suppose a child crying with toothache or earache would be told to shut up instead of being given a tylenol and taken to a doctor?

An abscessed tooth can be fatal. It can go to the brain. I beliee they may have been fortunate enough to may have inherited good teeth. We see at least two children with eye issues though.

I'm also wondering about their concept of time. I know when my ex became so malnourished, he lost all concept of time. I thought he'd had a stroke, only he hadn't. I thought at one point he was faking, so people would take care of him, but he wasn't. (You'd have to know him...). One of the kids, usually my eldest, would go see him frequently and even stayed with him for awhile before his memory got so bad (he was old enough to choose). I'd call his house, to get in touch with my son, and he'd tell me he hadn't been there. While we were on the phone, my son would come strolling through the room, and his father would say, Well I didn't know you were here!

When we looked back, we saw when it had started. It was very strange. It wasn't until he was hospitalized that we learned of the malnutrition, and the severity. I'd even called in a wellness check, because I knew something wasn't right, and, because our son was staying there, and, thought he should come back home. They came, asked the ex some simple questions, but didn't "talk" to him, and declared him, and his living quarters, just fine. Stunned. I think that they thought I was just a disgruntled ex (anything but).

From the link below: Nutritional Deficiencies (Malnutrition)
"Deficiencies can lead to a variety of health problems.These can include digestion problems, skin disorders, stunted or defective bone growth, and even dementia."

Vitamin A is a group of nutrients crucial for eye health and functioning and reproductive health in men and women. It also plays a part in strengthening the immune system against infections.

B1 deficiency/lack of thiamine.
A lack of thiamine can result in weight loss and fatigue as well as some cognitive symptoms such as confusion and short-term memory loss. Thiamine deficiency can also lead to nerve and muscle damage and can affect the heart. (Often seen in long term alcohol abuse)

Niacin (vitamin B-3) is another mineral that helps the body convert food into energy. A severe deficiency of niacin is often referred to as pellagra... Symptoms of pellagra include diarrhea, dementia, and skin disorders. You can usually treat it with a balanced diet and vitamin B-3 supplements.

B9 Deficiency (Folate) Folate is especially important for fetal development.

Vitamin D Deficiency: A lack of this nutrient can lead to stunted or poor bone growth

Calcium Deficiency: Calcium helps your body develop strong bones and teeth. It also helps your heart, nerves, and muscles work the way they should.

Nutritional Deficiencies (Malnutrition)
https://www.healthline.com/health/malnutrition#causes

 

[Doghairrules]

snipped

I think they will plea out. I can't see this matter going to trial with a dozen witnesses who lived through it.

I hope allocution is part of any potential plea deal. I want to hear them take responsibility.

 

[Doghairrules]

Another thing I've wondered about their lack of medical treatment is could you imagine if there was a contagious outbreak in that household? The measles, mumps, chickenpox, all the children would likely get it at once.

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Or worse, back to back. Before my youngest brother was born, the four others of us had chicken pox back to back. My mother still talks about not being able to leave the house for 2 months.

 

[ocgrad]

I’ve thought about this screen and just realized .... you don’t always need a special tool to cut screen material. Screening may be made of a softer material like ours and a decent pair of scissors would work quickly and pretty easy. It os hard for me tomtell what material their screens were made of.

And seeing the bushes below the window, and the cut was made low, was it intentional, perhaps to keep anyone from noticing on a casual glance from outside?

Exactly! You can easily cut screen with a pair of scissors. And it was done so calculating, low behind the bush but big enough for her to slip out. Well done!

 

[rsd1200]

It baffles me that people will pay $150 to get their hair colored every 6 weeks, have cable tv and cell phones, cars, a cigarette habit, drink, gamble, computers, wi-fi, manicures and pedicures, etc., etc., but balk at spending money for doctor visits.

The women you speak of probably have extremely high deductibles to pay before their private and expensive insurance picks up any of the bills. Someone paying $600 and up per month for insurance ($7,200 after tax dollars each year) can't meet the deductible too (often $6K and more out of pocket) as it has all spent on premiums. Imagine having to spend $13,200 before your insurance picks up the tab for anything. It is insurance that can't be used.

Dental is not even covered under most health insurance plans. It is a separate plan. My dental, with the organization, I worked for was cheap, and one o the best around here, but it didn't cover much at all.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Another thing I've wondered about their lack of medical treatment is could you imagine if there was a contagious outbreak in that household? The measles, mumps, chickenpox, all the children would likely get it at once.

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I think the likelihood of them getting these diseases would be low because they had very little contact, and more recently, no contact, with other children.

 

[kkdj]

i hope allocution is part of any potential plea deal. I want to hear them take responsibility.

this!

 

[A2FMNST]

Another thing I've wondered about their lack of medical treatment is could you imagine if there was a contagious outbreak in that household? The measles, mumps, chickenpox, all the children would likely get it at once.

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I am a complete germaphobe ( part of my OCD).

Can you IMAGINE these poor kids at Disney World? Talk about an international germ fest! Yikes!