CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #8

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JulieNMM said:
Hi everyone, I have been fascinated with this case for some reason. I do live about 10 miles away (Murrieta!), so it is a local issue. I am so glad I found this thread because you guys have been so busy getting info that I couldn't find. Not sure why it took me so long to look here -- I've been a member for a few years. Anyway, I have had a bunch of questions about this case and haven't seen most or any of them addressed so thought I would ask here...

1. Only one count of a lewd act? Is that because that's all they can prove at the moment -- ie, the 2 year old is proof of the lewd act? The 2 year old was conceived 3 years ago (all times are approx.) when the 17 yo was about 14 yo. I'm thinking she was raped, had the baby, and saw the cycle of abuse about to start again and that's why SHE was the one who escaped. Sure she was skinny and malnourished, but as someone earlier said, malnourished people have babies in Africa and other poor places, so it is possible. Plus, LT is 49 so was 47 when the baby was born, and she had not had a baby since she was 37 (child #12 is 12, right?). Fishy that she is all of a sudden having kids at her late age...

2. My son actually attends the same community college and he had to show ID only once. I know this because he lost his wallet and has no ID and was worried about that, but it wasn't a problem. You are required to take the reading and math pre-tests but you can enroll without actually doing that. My son did... They just told him to do it "later". Also, the college isn't expensive. My son is taking a full load and it cost $691 a semester, books were another $635! An earlier poster asked how they could afford it and about pell grants and college kids being $30K in debt, but that is not the case for this particular community college. But why was the son allowed to go to college? I think that maybe the parents thought he was the best chance out of all the kids to get a little educated and then get a job and be able to support the family once DT retired, or stopped working for whatever reason. Also, the oldest son has glasses but the second son doesn't and looks to have crossed eyes. The oldest son got to go to college. In the photos I've seen, he is wearing sneakers and not flip flops. I wonder if DT and LT treated him a little better than the other kids, maybe because he's male?

3. Someone asked if he had a social security number to enroll in college. Wouldn't all of the kids have social security numbers? You need them to be considered a dependent on tax forms. Which leads me to my next question. DT made $140K a year. Totally possible as a 56yo with a lot of experience in a technical field. In fact, my hubby makes that much and is about the same age and also in a technical field. BUT, my DH has a lot of responsibility at work and is valuable to his company. He has annual reviews and gets raises and praise from his bosses, and has been given increasing amounts of responsibility. Was DT a good worker with lots of responsibilities? It doesn't seem, from what I've seen, as if he would do well in that kind of role. Technology is constantly evolving -- was DT able to keep up with the changes? In a technical field like his, that is very important and usually requires additional training or seminars or reading, etc. Also, WHEN did DT work? If the kids slept all day and were awake all night, did he work at night? Did he work during the day and then come home and slept while the kids were forced to stay awake?

4. Where did all of their money go? $140K a year and 14 dependents means he probably wasn't paying a lot of taxes. This would give him about $10K a month take home. A mortgage on a $350K house, including taxes, insurance, etc is no more than $2500. They obviously weren't spending much money on the kids...I know for me, my kids cost a ton! LOL. Between cell phones, food, clothes, extracurricular activities, and so on. They had 4 cars but none of them are expensive or new. So $7500 a month for cell phones for 2 people, a normal amount of food for 2 and a little food for 13, electricity/gas, Internet? cable TV? gas for the cars, car insurance, car payments, what else? No medical bills apparently and not much spent on clothes.

Well those are my main questions. Thanks for reading and looking forward to everyone's responses!

ETA. Thought of one more. About Disney. Annual passes start at $340 a year per person. If they even had annual passes. I think they probably only went once every few years. One-day entrance fees are about $100 per person. That is $1500 for one trip but if only take once every few years is not too bad. Plus, when I go to Disneyland, all my money goes for the overpriced food and souvenirs, which they probably didn't partake of. And those matching outfits? Puulllease. They look like $3 shirts from Walmart and not expensive Disney clothes. Most had on $1 flip flops. And they do take your fingerprints at Disney World in Florida, but not at Disneyland in California. Now they just take your picture to make sure your face matches if you try to use the ticket again.
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Lots of good info.

I was the one talking about the college debt. My grandson is in commumity college right now in MN and I am not sure of the amount but will look it up. Something like $3000 a semester maybe. Gotta look.

I too was womdering about the salary as so many dependents would make his pay pretty high because of the deductions.

It seems like they went out to eat a lot. I saw a reference to them being seen at Applebees. By “them” I mean the parents. That adds up in cost.

Since the children took one shower a year, I wonder how often clothes were washed.

I cannot even imagine shackled in their own feces and urine. How did those children survive all of those years!
 
rosemadderlake said:
Don't know if this has been posted but there is an article with more pictures of the Texas home. Quite horrifying. But there is a picture of this drawing that was posted a few threads back that shows it was drawn on a wall. It is quite large and up high by the upper right next to a door. And, the other thing I notice is the circles are almost perfect. That's not easy to do at that scale, especially.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5318481/House-Horrors-pair-fled-Texas-child-sought-help.html

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There is something strange with this picture (apart from its overall strangeness of course). The circles are indeed well drawn. The head, though simplistic, shows emotion (unfortunatly a sad one...). Now, JMO but the arms and the hands seem to have been drawn by a different person. The arms are very short - some posters said it represented the feeling of helplessness felt by the children and I agree - but more importantly the hands have only 3 fingers. Teachers known that when children draw people with 5 fingers it means they are ready to learn to read. Before that they draw people with less fingers (Mickey has 4 fingers BTW) or more fingers. Not sure this is important but I am pretty sure this has been drawn by two different persons.
 
Jilllian said:
Thank you for saying that, Ana.

What I've seen particularly in the foster kids I've had in my home (and worked with at my day job) that have been over 9-years-old, and particularly teenagers, is that they live in a fantasy world that their parents have changed, and will be the ideal parents if given a second (or third, fourth, fifth, etc.) chance. They think they learned their lesson or magically have changed who they are and would, at any chance of reunification, earn their parent of the year awards.

However, I once had a teenage foster daughter who eventually moved out of my home to go to college. She said she realized if she hadn't been in foster care from the age of 3-18 (I was her 51st, and final foster parent), she wouldn't have gone to college. She said she'd likely be on heroin if she was raised by her birth parents. But she was fiercely loyal to them still, just recognized she was better off in care.

I've read that some (most?) of the Turpin kids have developmental delays, most likely from extreme neglect. If this is true, I hope their developmental issues protect them in some ways while they're processing what's been done to them.

The most resilient kids I've seen on the planet have been those I work with at a foster care agency, and those who've been in my care. I bet the Turpin kids are resilient as all get out.

If I had a mansion, I would quit my job and offer to raise (re-raise?) these kids, as I'm sure many here would.

So heartbreaking.
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Your post is leaving me teary eyed. I absolutely agree with everything you have said and it is all too familiar to what I know our friend has gone through with her own experience with fostering and adopting.

Absolutely, and we would be right along side of you. I find myself worrying about these kids every day.
 
Lulu_la_Nantaise said:
Hi everybody! Long time reader first time poster here.



BBM

Could the polaroids have been taken by the cleaning crew? Either to explain to their manager that they needed more time/staff, or to document a "before/after" advertisement for future clients?

Now I don't see why polaroids which are quite expensive and not digital photos which can be sent instantly...
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:welcome: :greetings: Lulu_la_Nantaise! Looks like our WS census, for this thread, just expanded a little further :)
 
Finally caught up. Whew! Just when I thought I'd seen it all, I realize I haven't. Does anyone know if photos of the parents' bedroom have been released? Thanks for responding.
 
Pertinent to the likes of David and Louise Turpin and Larry Nassar.

Narcissistic Brainwashing: How Larry Nassar Thinks
https://blogs.psychcentral.com/narcissism/2018/01/narcissistic-brainwashing-how-larry-nassar-thinks/

All your life, you think one way. Your family is fine. Normal. Apparently, love hurts. But you stay because your family convinced you that strangers would hurt, abuse and rape you.

Then one memorable day, you discovered narcissism. And everything changed. Everything. You rethought every relationship, every event, everything your family ever said or did. Your isolation. All your gut instincts, intuitions and hunches.
 
Jondy09 said:
I'm a little afraid to post this because of judgment, but the restraints conversation is weighing on my mind.

I work with kids and adults (up to 21) who the public schools cannot handle because of their level of violence or self-injurious behavior. I'm talking about a 6 year old who detached a retina in one eye through head banging, a boy who broke his own leg kicking through a wall, a 19 year old who knocked a teacher out, and another who threw a pair of scissors at someone's head with enough force that they stuck into the wall. In other words, they are truly a danger to themselves or others.

We use quiet rooms. If a kid is at risk of hurt themselves in the quiet room (ex. choking themselves with something), we go in and hold them until they are no longer trying to hurt themselves or others. We are only allowed to hold a kid for 10 minutes and then we have to try to release them because of worries about nerve damage. If they are still unsafe, we have to try a new hold to decrease the likelihood of nerve damage. In training, we heard stories about accidents where kids were hurt because adults utilized restraints incorrectly. I'm scared to imagine the level of nerve damage these kids might endure. We have video cameras everywhere and we must document every instance of restraint, even if it is 5 seconds long.

Also, regardless of whether a kid is in the middle of banging their head against the wall, if they say they need to use the bathroom, we have to let them use the bathroom.

A co-worker used to work in a psychiatric hospital and they had similar rules about chemical and mechanical restraints.

There is no feasible reason to restrain someone for long lengths of time, ever! Many of my students have intellectual disabilities; that also is not a reason to restrain for long periods of time! Plus, they aren't learning coping skills in restraint. It is our last resort when we can't keep them safe any other way. If we just kept them in a locked closet all day, they'd never learn to deal with disappointment safely. We would never see progress. Kids are violent because they don't know how to handle their emotions or get what they need in another way.

It is impossible these restraints were "legitimate". In fact, we had one little boy who came to us after CPS found him in a similar condition (naked, chained to a bed in his own waste). The government oversees and approves our use of restraint, but his parents were put in jail despite claiming they had no other way to keep him safe. Restraint should never be used as punishment or as a way to make things easier on parents or staff. It is only allowed in acute crisis situations.

I've been following this case for days and it makes me sick. It makes me more ill to think people even entertain the idea that this treatment could be acceptable if the kids were disabled.

I'm sorry if I'm dredging up an argument and all the posts about possible reasons for restraints were attempts to figure out an argument the defense could make... I worried some posts went beyond an attempt to decipher a possible defense and argued that it was okay. It is hard to tell tone and meaning with text.

Edited to add: No one I work with (or have heard of) enjoys restraining. It is a risk for both us and the children we're trying to help transition to a less restrictive environment. I've gone home and cried about my kids. I celebrate days where no one needs restraint to stop injuries. I'm disgusted that anyone would enjoy restraining another human being, especially their own children.

Thank you for all the work you do for victims! I only stumbled upon WS while researching this case. I'm in awe of the ways you all have helped LE over the years.
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As a retired teacher, we were trained in using restraint by hold by the specialists who used it with children with severe issues. We had children with issues in the regular classroom because of the laws of,the least restrictive environment.

I have to say that in thirty years of teaching, I held a boy once for a few minutes, but I had him sitting on the floor with me like he was in my lap.

After that experience, I vowed I would never restrain a child again. I was not willing to take the risk of hurting a child so I would be in prison or a lawsuit. I found other ways with disruptive children.

However, I have to say I never had some as severe as you have described.

The public has no clue of the children we have in our classrroms. The first year I taught I went home crying as I did home visits. And since I was not a special needs teacher, I did not get the most traumatized children.

My friend works in residential treatment. The kids smear feces on the walls all of the time in their rooms. Their curtains are comtiually being replaced.

Story after story of the horrors.

I believe that after abusing one child, people should get sterilized. We don’t allow puppy mills but people get to have more children to abuse.
 
laikawolf said:
Did anyone see this article? https://www.whittierdailynews.com/2...ost-400000-donated-so-far-to-turpin-children/ Apparently $400,000 has been added to the fund for the Turpin children, including $100,000 from an anonymous donor. iPads are also being collected for them. However, there was one donation that I thought to be particularly odd: 10 dolls from a Christian doll-making company...
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I only read what the Hannah book is about. Not much description but what is said worries me. It seems like it is pointing to accept abuse?
 
Chelly said:
Finally caught up. Whew! Just when I thought I'd seen it all, I realize I haven't. Does anyone know if photos of the parents' bedroom have been released? Thanks for responding.
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I don't think so.
 
Jondy09 said:
I've been following this case for days and it makes me sick. It makes me more ill to think people even entertain the idea that this treatment could be acceptable if the kids were disabled.
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SBM

I'll be perfectly honest - when hearing the first news I thought that maybe the children had some medical problem and terribly misguided parents (as well as criminally stupid!) were trying to pray the medical problem away. BUT as more and more news piled on... no. DT and LT are not criminally stupid, they are criminally evil.
 
Lulu_la_Nantaise said:
There is something strange with this picture (apart from its overall strangeness of course). The circles are indeed well drawn. The head, though simplistic, shows emotion (unfortunatly a sad one...). Now, JMO but the arms and the hands seem to have been drawn by a different person. The arms are very short - some posters said it represented the feeling of helplessness felt by the children and I agree - but more importantly the hands have only 3 fingers. Teachers known that when children draw people with 5 fingers it means they are ready to learn to read. Before that they draw people with less fingers (Mickey has 4 fingers BTW) or more fingers. Not sure this is important but I am pretty sure this has been drawn by two different persons.
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I am going to look up drawings by sexually abused preschoolers. The hands are at preschool level.

Sometimes there are explanations on the net about the meaning of certain things in drawings, I have not looked for a long time but I know there are developmental levels of drawing and the type of fingers and the amount are indicative as you say
 
Lulu_la_Nantaise said:
There is something strange with this picture (apart from its overall strangeness of course). The circles are indeed well drawn. The head, though simplistic, shows emotion (unfortunatly a sad one...). Now, JMO but the arms and the hands seem to have been drawn by a different person. The arms are very short - some posters said it represented the feeling of helplessness felt by the children and I agree - but more importantly the hands have only 3 fingers. Teachers known that when children draw people with 5 fingers it means they are ready to learn to read. Before that they draw people with less fingers (Mickey has 4 fingers BTW) or more fingers. Not sure this is important but I am pretty sure this has been drawn by two different persons.
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Very true, it’s one of the first thing I was pulled into for a meeting with my son in preK. The teacher was telling me how far along my son was, first clue and great teacher. It’s certainly a thing.

i think it was drawn by an emotionally aware learning disabled person that may have been older. They could have stood on a chair or bed and just did it. Doesn’t have to have any deep reason or meaning but it would certainly represent where the individual is at in their mind.

If the place was such such a disaster I doubt the parents cared what was on the walls. You know
 
Just jumping off your post!

“Lewd and lascivious acts with a child under 14” is legalese for child molestation. It’s willfully abusing a child for sexual arousal/satisfaction.

Child molestation is a despicable sex crime. Let’s call it what it is. Calling it anything else could be construed as minimizing what the victims have endured, imo.

The 17-year-old who called police rescued all her siblings from unimaginable torture. God bless her, and all her siblings. ❤️

MOO


*** Link with more explanation on the legal definition of lewd and lascivious acts with child under 14:

https://johndrogerslaw.com/practice...-molestation-lewd-acts-with-a-child-under-14/


December said:
http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-288.html

Link reveals information about lewd conduct charge. It says this is punishable by up to 10 years in prison under some circumstances. Those circumstances seem to be similar to some of the ones known in this case (IMO, I am not a lawyer).

However, it is important to note, California has a law that says RAPE right in the name. I believe if the girl who told investigators about whatever led to this charge had mentioned having a baby, then DT would be up on rape charges. It would be a potentially harsher punishment.

Please, let us remember there is a real girl who endured yet another horrible type of treatment from her father. The lewd act is not the same thing as rape. Such as, it is usually not described as the type of thing that can cause pregnancy. Those acts are RAPE and there is a specific law for that.

JMO.
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nyvictoria said:
I have an acquaintance who has been obsessed with Winnie the Pooh for as long as I’ve known her. She has Pooh books, figurines, T-shirt’s, bumper stickers, just about every tchotchke you can imagine. Interestingly, when her daughter was around 12 yrs old, she (daughter) wanted to redecorate her room and get rid of the Pooh theme and put up some contemporary posters- Jonas Bros and other teen paraphernalia. My friend wouldn’t let her. Her rationale was that Pooh has a sweet and caring theme and she was going to keep her daughter innocent as long as she could. I always thought it was very odd and hoped it wouldn’t all backfire on her one day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I just learned a new word!
 
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