CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #9

[Deleted member 158085]

Depending on how old she was in these pictures (personal guess pre-16) she may have simply grown into her nose. I remember my nose sticking out like a sore thumb at 15.

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Same here.

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[Zelda1010]

Same here.

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I'm jealous. I'm not looking forward to mine continuing to grow. I've seen my future. :sigh::liar:


ETA: I should give up for the day, I think. This is in reference to all the nose (and ears) talk. I'm jealous of vmmking and the others who have grown into their noses. Not LT.

 

[ocgrad]

i agree too. I think it’s easy to assume she was the main instigator because her conduct since has been so inappropriate. But I think that probably has a lot to do with her social isolation. Let’s face it, she was also living the weird, restrictive hours. She may have been completely complicit and happy to do that, but I think it’s remdered her unable to function in a socially appropriate way.

My cousins were abused in every way as children by their father. When I asked once why they thought their mother allowed it they said, Mother had 2 choices, she could have divorced and put Daddy out of our lives, or she could accept his behavior and check her sanity at the door. She chose the latter and so they essentially had 2 abusive parents. Plus I will note that their mother was usually more physically and equally as emotionally abusive than their father. He did not remain sexually abusive, it occurred when they were quite young. Maybe in some way their mother drew the line there. Also she did leave him when they were young but the kids loved and missed him so much and she "didn't want to tear her family apart" for what she considered selfish reasons. They were both a piece of work. He needed help after WW2, she needed help as she was unable to face reality, just chose to write her own. The kids suffered and still do.
One of my cousins had good mental health help as an adult due to being disabled early in life with Lupus and she eventually filed charges against her father. She dropped them after his arrest because she felt the whole experience of filing and seeing him arrested was healing enough.
Not to say I think LT was a victim any more than I think my aunt was a victim.

 

[enelram]

I know LTs father is deceased but is her mother still alive?

No, her mother and father both passed away within 3 months of each other.

 

[Confusion]

I'm going to try again with the ages of the younger members of the family. An 11 year old now, would have been born in ~2006-7. According to the bankruptcy records, there was one sister born in ~2006-7 (depending on her birthday), one sister ~2 years earlier (2004-5), one sister ~3 years earlier (2003-4) and one brother about ~5 years earlier (2001-2). My best guess for who the 11 and 14 year-olds would be that it was #12 and #10. MOO

 

[SkipperKey3]

I'm going to try again with the ages of the younger members of the family. An 11 year old now, would have been born in ~2006-7. According to the bankruptcy records, there was one sister born in ~2006-7 (depending on her birthday), one sister ~2 years earlier (2004-5), one sister ~3 years earlier (2003-4) and one brother about ~5 years earlier (2001-2). My best guess for who the 11 and 14 year-olds would be that it was #12 and #10. MOO

I would agree with that, which is why when somebody brought up an article that said that the sister that escaped with the 17-year-old but went back in the house out of fear was a "younger sister" (rather than one of the older ones), I deduced that it had to be the 13-year-old, #11, since #10 and #12 were in restraints.

 

[rsd1200]

IMO. DT is absolutely as guilty as LT. They both have separate issues that sadly converged into this travesty. I don't think he is as shrewd or as cunning as LT. He seems more the nerdy book smart type. I'm sure he wanted to be seen as the patriarchal father figure, the one who enforces the rules. LT was LAZY and self absorbed and she didn't want to deal with feeding the children, educating the children or running a household. When faced with the realization of this, he deluded himself into thinking that "her way" was okay. He could have stopped the abuse of those children at any time. He choose not to.

I don't think it's laziness. I think it's a mental disorder at work. I think both would have to have a type of mental disorder to live in those conditions, and treat their children in that manner, over the course of years.

Neglect, living in squalor and hoarding are frequently symptoms of an underlying psychiatric or somatic illness. In this respect the results suggest that "standard care" proved to be of limited effect -- especially for subjects with a psychotic illness.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15918124

 

[flourish]

Yeah no.

In my mind, there is such thing as age appropriateness, in general, for all things, from dress to discipline. Especially when it comes to objectifying women and little girls.

I was born in 72, I am a 90s girl.

Not appropriate for a child in this particular context. I see it as sexualizing here.

Maybe not with other parents, but with LT/DT, their secrets, torture, DT's lewd behavior "vs" his their apparent t"conservativeness". I think it is very important to take this in context. It's not innocent. IMO

Interesting. Even the most hardcore Mormons in my world didn't have an issue with those tights. And I grew up in the "moridor," (North Utah southern Idaho). Even I was allowed to have and wear them as long as they were worn as tights not pants (there might be a funny story about that even). It's interesting seeing different people's thoughts. I wasn't even allowed to have underoos or most tank tops, but I could wear those. Idk

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Interesting. Even the most hardcore Mormons in my world didn't have an issue with those tights. And I grew up in the "moridor," (North Utah southern Idaho). Even I was allowed to have and wear them as long as they were worn as tights not pants (there might be a funny story about that even). It's interesting seeing different people's thoughts. I wasn't even allowed to have underoos or most tank tops, but I could wear those. Idk

OT - absolute travesty that you missed out on underoos! Those were the best! It did lead to running around clad only in underwear as much as possible, of course.

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[flourish]

OT - absolute travesty that you missed out on underoos! Those were the best! It did lead to running around clad only in underwear as much as possible, of course.

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I found some big girl ones a few years ago and snatched them up! Because I really AM Wonder Woman!

 

[rsd1200]

LT's sister stated that LT had always said she wanted 12 kids. That it was something LT's Grandma talked about.

Not to be snarky, but I don't put much faith in what LT's sisters are saying. The more I've read, the more that I'm very uncomfortable with what they are saying, including the step-brother.

 

[Spice]

Sure, but we often expect less of fathers than mothers. And we often blame a mother more for her lack of judgment, even in the face of clear manipulation and abuse, than we do when a man is responsible for death/damage.

This is well-documented and is not something I pulled out of thin air. It's been studied psychologically, philosophically, historically, etc. It is the truth, whether we want to explore our own complicity in carrying it forward or not. I choose introspection and study when I find myself thinking this way.

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Yes. Yes. And YES.

Thank you.

 

[ilovepierre]

Not to be snarky, but I don't put much faith in what LT's sisters are saying. The more I've read, the more that I'm very uncomfortable with what they are saying, including the step-brother.

They just want their 15 minutes of fame.

 

[!!!!]

About Amy Duggar wanting to adopt ALL 13 children, does she not realize that she's close in age to some of them.

 

[rsd1200]

It's an odd case. The photo of her and her sisters, the little kids look unhappy. I'm no psych but she seems personality disordered. He seems to be too - and other things as well.

Definitely, child abuse, especially emotional and sexual, can develop a personality disorder in kids. So I'm sure something did happen.

But it likely combined with their overall, underlying personalities and their personal beliefs.

Her family is more vocal about the negative so we hear mostly about the mother's behavior. So it's easier to make her put to be the only villain in this case. Or at least to discuss.

If her sister is right, she was bizarrely sadistic and controlling early on
and seems to have a sick fixation on food and control. She controlled her kids through food and isolation. And seemed to get off on that. The description of her on the Dr. Phil show up was so weird. How she would make eating an elaborate ritual of control. Making her child smile before she ate. And holding her hands, making eye contact and then smiling after she was done before making her go back to isolation. It's freaky and sadistic.

There's a good article on what makes people into child torturers like this. It is very informative. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-42751715

I get a feeling that the food issue, and restricting food, possibly could have come from LT's home, growing up. Just something I stumbled across. Don't know if it's true, but looking at LT's family photos, and listening to LT's sibs, I kinda think it might be.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

About Amy Duggar wanting to adopt ALL 13 children, does she not realize that she's close in age to some of them.

We kind of already kicked this topic to the curb because when you read beyond the headline you realize it was just a wish that she could help, much like what some of us have expressed here.

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[Zelda1010]

I'm going to try again with the ages of the younger members of the family. An 11 year old now, would have been born in ~2006-7. According to the bankruptcy records, there was one sister born in ~2006-7 (depending on her birthday), one sister ~2 years earlier (2004-5), one sister ~3 years earlier (2003-4) and one brother about ~5 years earlier (2001-2). My best guess for who the 11 and 14 year-olds would be that it was #12 and #10. MOO

I would agree with that, which is why when somebody brought up an article that said that the sister that escaped with the 17-year-old but went back in the house out of fear was a "younger sister" (rather than one of the older ones), I deduced that it had to be the 13-year-old, #11, since #10 and #12 were in restraints.

I'm a little intimidated by that media thread. Should I or would one of you, or anyone else, feel comfortable posting an update there? It seems like we have the initial media report and the bankruptcy docs to corroborate an updated birth year?

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I find the way they word it strange and can only conclude the person they are accusing is still alive. They don't name the person or the relationship, so I suspect the person is alive and is not incarcerated.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I know LTs father is deceased but is her mother still alive?

No, she is deceased. I saw her obituary online somewhere, but I did not save the link.

 

[ilovepierre]

No, she is deceased. I saw her obituary online somewhere, but I did not save the link.

http://www.cravens-shires.com/obituary/3606439