CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #4

[Gigi-G]

Just got an email from one of my families; R (the child) has strep throat but before that they were visiting family in Atlanta. Nothing to do with being afraid of retaliation! Shew!!!!!

Still waiting to hear from the other family.

Awhh glad one of yr little people are okay. Sad they're poorly tho. Strep throat us horrid. Wishes for a speedy recovery. Hope is also good news for the other little person n fam.

 

[Montjoy]

I'm with you, after 911 I too, was strongly on the side of moderate Muslims...but these days, it is just hard to tell. 60% of young American Muslims want Sharia here?!

rsbm

Do you have a link to the source of this statistic?

 

[SophieRose]

Muslim, to me, means ALL Muslims. Some are moderate. Some are radical. And some are in between. They are all Muslims. And within these groups, there will be some who will say others are "not as Muslim".

Just as Christians (and the many denominations). Some are moderate. Some are radical. And some are in between. And I know Christians who feel that other Christians really aren't.

In the "radical zone", in my opinion, the danger to others is much more severe in the Muslim world than in the Christian world. This is what this massive thread is about, radical Muslims.

You know what, I really even hate that this conversation is here (not this specific one, I mean in general). I liked it better when I easily and strongly stood up for the moderate Muslims, before I truly understood how very crafty the radicals are at pretending they are not radical, until they "come out". My world view has shifted tremendously, and I am entitled to feel this way.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, divides Muslims into three groups: “Medina Muslims" (fundamentalists), "Mecca Muslims" (majority), and modifying Muslims (reformers).

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/09...iolence-ayaan-hirsi-ali-debate-islamic-state/

The future of Islam and the world’s relationship with Muslims will be decided by which of the two minority groups — the Medina Muslims and the reformers — wins the support of the meccan majority. That is why focusing on “violent extremism” is to focus on a symptom of a much more profound ideological epidemic that has its root causes in Islamic doctrine.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Finally caught up. I almost don't want to hear about who all was on FBI or LE radar BEFORE the attacks. It makes me want to slap my head against a cement wall. Useless. Meanwhile here in the jungle...

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You were missed here, today. :blowkiss:

 

[EllieBee]

Bumping due to editing with link-->



________________________

"Megyn Kelly interviewed Steve Hayes of the Weekly Standard that broke the story. When he contacted investigators for a follow up, they gave him the ole, "I'm sorry, we can't release that information due to the integrity of the investigation/investigators"...
Hayes said that he will dig deeper tomorrow.. I have been researching investigations for almost a decade now. There has been very few cases that I have researched where the proverbial ball wasn't dropped. It would be very tragic if this is the norm in this tragic case"....

Was this supposed to have the supporting stats for the "who is more persecuted" statement? I could not find those statistics in the link you provided. But I am on ipad, so maybe not getting the full site?

 

[ninij9]

You were missed here, today. :blowkiss:

Awe thank you![emoji8]

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[bluesneakers]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, divides Muslims into three groups: “Medina Muslims" (fundamentalists), "Mecca Muslims" (majority), and modifying Muslims (reformers).

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/09...iolence-ayaan-hirsi-ali-debate-islamic-state/

The future of Islam and the world’s relationship with Muslims will be decided by which of the two minority groups — the Medina Muslims and the reformers — wins the support of the meccan majority. That is why focusing on “violent extremism” is to focus on a symptom of a much more profound ideological epidemic that has its root causes in Islamic doctrine.

Thank you for finding and sharing. I'm probably going to need to read it a few times though. There's a lot of information there.

 

[ninij9]

Trying to catch up here. If this has been discussed, please help me find the discussion. All the victims' FB pages that I can find seem to have been turned into "memorials" or "community" pages. Is this something normally done by FB after a mass tragedy like this? I've never seen that before, and just curious.

You can actually set your page to look a certain way when you pass now! I was trying to play with the privacy settings and came upon something that reminded me of a living will contract. Not that it's the case here. You just reminded me of it.
That's taking your FB addiction to a whole new level lol.

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[Tillicum]

FOX NEWS - Kelly File:

Breaking: One of the terrorists was being investigated by LAPD one week before the San Bernardino attack..

http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-missed-warning/article/2000125

A Missed Warning?
Scanner traffic indicates law enforcement may have investigated San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook a week before the attack.
5:04 PM, Dec 07, 2015

Law enforcement officials in San Bernardino and Los Angeles may have investigated Syed Farook one week before the shooting on the community development center on December 2, 2015, that left 14 dead and 17 injured, according to a review of police communications immediately following the attacks.
<snipped - read more>

Surprised it took them so long to find that. Guess they don't read our scanner thread.

 

[Only4Justice]

Women and children could be groped and assaulted with relative impunity -- domestic assault and rape was far more common; women had few career options outside of 'housewife' and limited educational opportunities (not that anything is wrong with being a homemaker, but one should have a choice). Buses and restaurants could be segregated. People were ill-informed about things going on around them. The police were, in some ways, even more likely to treat people unequally than they are now. Poor kids were more likely to be drafted...the list goes on and on. Anyone who has deep nostalgia for those days had either a lucky hand of cards, or they now have very selective vision or memory.

[emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122] bears repeating. Thanks Montjoy.

ETA: I'm behind on the threads. This is about comparison of 1950s to now.....

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[bluesneakers]

Was this supposed to have the supporting stats for the "who is more persecuted" statement? I could not find those statistics in the link you provided. But I am on ipad, so maybe not getting the full site?

No, you're not missing anything. The link for the persecution claim was to a site about getting a flu shot.

 

[Foxfire]

Washington, D.C.: FBI Releases 2014 Hate Crime Statistics.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

Religious bias
Hate crimes motivated by religious bias accounted for 1,092 offenses reported by law enforcement. A breakdown of the bias motivation of religious-biased offenses showed:

58.2 percent were anti-Jewish.
16.3 percent were anti-Islamic (Muslim).
6.1 percent were anti-Catholic.
4.7 percent were anti-multiple religions, group.
2.6 percent were anti-Protestant.
1.2 percent were anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc.
11.0 percent were anti-other (unspecified) religion. (Based on Table 1.)

<BBM>

 

[Gigi-G]

not that any of us are religious experts, but that was one of the many things I looked at as it is so often quoted by non-Muslims and Muslims. That, on its face, would make it seem pretty OBVIOUS that you can't kill people right? Except, you have to read the whole passage in context.

There are numerous places where you can read more about this by Muslim and non-Muslims. But there are two general criticisms.

First is most say it actually applies to Jews (Children of Israel) not Muslims. To follow that further it is actually based on a quote from the Talmud:





And there's a whole line of scholarship about how the Talmud isn't the word of God and so it wasn't Allah saying this as the Talmud is the recorded teaching of the Sanhedrin, rabbi's. And then, he didn't just quote it, Muhammed added exceptions to it to say when killing WAS OK.



So, killing is OK for people spreading corruption and all sorts of acts by non-Muslims are considered to be the spreading of corruption. Some say just the presence of non-believers sows corruption. There is much evidence that Islamic scholars consider the killing of an innocent MUSLIM wrong. But a non-Muslim? Not so much.

(see 5:33). “Corruption in the land” refers to the words and/or actions that come into significant conflict with Islam. The Koran says that the presence of disbelievers causes confusion and corruption in the land, and therefore Muslims must join together to oppose them (8:73). Ibn Kathir interprets 8:73 to mean that if the Muslims do not join together to protect themselves and their religion from the disbelievers, then “(…there will be Fitnah and oppression on the earth, and a great corruption), meaning, if you do not shun the idolators and offer your loyalty to the believers, Fitnah will overcome the people. Then confusion [polytheism and corruption] will be rampant, for the believers will be mixed with disbelievers, resulting in tremendous, widespread trials [corruption and mischief] between people.”

So, while this passage is often quoted to prove the point Muslims can't kill it's not hard to find evidence that this is not the only view and it doesn't really hang together as something Allah said as he Talmud had already said it and it's pretty easy to find evidence that many Muslims disagree that killing is bad.[/QUOTE]

As with all Religions. It's an emotive subject. And what we listen to or choose to follow or believe. Is really down to the individual. Just as the Bible, the Qur'an is a holy book. And books are for us to read to digest to fulfill our enquiring minds.
Most Priests/Vicars, Imams are well versed in their scriptures. And rightly so. I'd expect that of a 'holy' person.
You could choose to enter any Church and any Mosque. And be welcomed no matter your dress your skin colour.
And you will be met by said Vicar or Imam and they will be happy to explain to you the rights and wrongs of their religion.
Or how they have taught it to their parishioners or congregation.
And it won't be along the lines of killing anyone. Much likely against such deeds.
So therefore. Many many modern day Muslims. Abide by their Imams teachings.
The Radicalists views are totally abhorrent to them. Which is why unless you know who to contact who to talk to. Radical Islamists are very much secretive.
All moo.
But having friends that observe daily prayer and fasting and live life as good kind Muslims. Is how I gain my opinion.
And..... They will denounce radicalism ferverently.

 

[killer Chaser]

They said Syed Farook father lived in Corona, California I wonder if Syed could be responsible for this incident. http://www.lifeincorona.com/news/corona-pd-confirms-bomb-found-at-jameson-park/

 

[bluesneakers]

Surprised it took them so long to find that. Guess they don't read our scanner thread.

Hah! I've had to be careful about not posting some things.

 

[ninij9]

I was on an interview today and instead of listening to the HR Manager I was too busy looking around to see how much of a sitting duck I would be working there. Exits, bathrooms, windows. Instead of asking important benefit questions I was plotting my escape plan. I think I need a break. Lol.

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[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-missed-warning/article/2000125/

A MISSED WARNING?

Scanner Traffic indicates law enforcement may have investigated San Bernardino Shooter Syed Farook a week before the attack

(More at link above...)

 

[Foxfire]

Surprised it took them so long to find that. Guess they don't read our scanner thread.

May be where they found the info, Tillicum.. You would be surprised how many journalists and other media people are members and or viewers of websleuths..imo

 

[Gigi-G]

They said Syed Farook father lived in Corona, California I wonder if Syed could be responsible for this incident. http://www.lifeincorona.com/news/corona-pd-confirms-bomb-found-at-jameson-park/

Ooh maybe. Hopefully the LE might tie two n two together.

 

[Boytwnmom]

I've learned about communities almost solely composed of Muslims with similar ethnic ties. One of my main concerns about these areas, beyond terror ties, is the abuse that routinely occurs. These are communities, like some here in the US, where residents do not call police. But these Muslim areas do have their own law enforcement that not only deals with crime but hides the occurrence of things like FGM and the repression of women.

Muslims integrated into the UK society have formed various groups to get the word out and try to convince newer immigrants that these practices are not Islamic. But this is happening on a fairly large scale in western countries to small girls. This is not religion as understood in the west.

More than 130 million women living today have been subjected to this horrifying practice, and more than two million girls are assaulted by it each year. That is more than five thousand girls every day. Many girls lose their lives during FGM, which is often done with broken glass. Most victims suffer from chronic infection and pain for the rest of their lives. The mutilation robs women of their ability to enjoy the fullness of their sexuality and, therefore, the fullness of their lives. Approximately 75 percent of women cannot achieve orgasm without clitoral stimulation; thus, the possibility of sexual satisfaction has been obliterated for millions of women in the Muslim world.

The Muslim communities who practice FGM will not easily abandon their barbarity. The Egyptian government, for example, banned FGM in 1996, but an Egyptian court overturned the ban in July 1997. The problem is that the clitoris mutilators point to traditional teachings that sanction FGM. Islamic tradition, for instance, records the Prophet Muhammad emphasizing that circumcising girls is “a preservation of honor for women.” A legal manual of the Shafi'i school of Islamic jurisprudence, 'Umdat al-Salik, which is endorsed by Al-Azhar University of Cairo -- the oldest and most prestigious university in the Islamic world -- states that circumcision is obligatory for both boys and girls.

http://www.fgmnetwork.org/gonews.php?subaction=showfull&id=1238517067&ucat=1&

The Muslim enclaves are able to operate without effective oversight because of PC. There really can't be any other reason why we would let women and girls be repressed, mutilated and killed without response.

And it's not reported widely for that same reason. No one is supposed to make negative inferences about Islam. I know this all came from a good place, the west's acceptance of people and their religions, traditions etc but since when did we abandon our moral principles? To stand up for the people being abused in our own countries under the guise of religious freedom?

But the only real reports you'll find are on blogs, or the Daily Mail and such tabloid type papers. But I don't find comfort in the lack of MSM reporting. Perhaps others do. Occassionally they'll be an article on FGM in a paper like the Guardian which tries to divorce it as much as possible from any link to Islam by, IMO, misleadingly linking referencing Christianity and the Bible as though this were some practice being committed as frequently by Christians & Jews as by Muslims:

female genital mutilation (FGM), a practice that serves as a social and cultural bonding exercise...The rite of passage, condemned by many Islamic scholars, predates both the Koran and the Bible and possibly even Judaism, appearing in the 2nd century BC.

But for people familiar with these enclaves, it is no secret that the inhabitants are Muslim and they are not integrated into the larger society and no efforts are being made by them to do so. Efforts are instead directed at formalizing their self government under which they can operate with impunity without regard to civil and other rights.

The rise in ‘community justice’ means crimes as serious as murder and sexual abuse are going unreported – a situation reminiscent of Belfast in the height of the Troubles....

Honour killings, domestic violence, sexual abuse of children and female genital mutilations are some of the offences that are believed to be unreported in some cities.

Last December, three members of a self-styled ‘Muslim Patrol’ vigilante group were jailed for harassing, intimidating and assaulting people in East London while claiming they were enforcing sharia law....there have been growing concerns over the emergence of sharia courts in some Muslim communities.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ies-launch-justice-systems.html#ixzz3th9xevhG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The response from the Muslim Council of Britain was to note a rise in Islamophobic hate crime.

As was noted by another, Molenbeck in Brussels, is a well known no go zone which provided a haven some of the Paris terrorists.

Molenbeek has been connected to almost all of Belgium’s terrorism-related incidents in recent years. Moroccan national Ayoub el-Khazzani, who opened fire with a Kalashnikov on a high-speed Thalys train in August had lived in Molenbeek. French-Algerian Mehdi Nemmouche, who killed four people at the Jewish Museum in Brussels last year, spent time in the area. And the two suspected terrorists killed by Belgian police in a shootout in the eastern town of Verviers in January were from Molenbeek.

“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html

People bring these things up because they exist. I also see no reason why so many people would just make these things up. This realistic look should not just be dismissed as bigotry. Every single way of life is NOT equal. Bad is not good. Mutilation is not just a cultural difference. Honor killing is not justifiable homicide.

I'm referring to the Sharia Law zones/areas/cities people keep bringing up. I live in a big city and there are places I avoid after dark, but not because there are Muslims there blocking my entry or because I might get caned for having a drink.