Found Deceased CA - Audrey Moran, 26, & Jonathan Reynoso, 28, Riverside County, 10 May 2017 #2 *4 arrested*

[ellbee]

An Emergency Request is classified as an emergency request from law enforcement working on kidnappings, missing person cases, attempted suicides, etc.

This case of course falling under missing persons.

We also receive a high volume of emergency requests. Depending on where the corporate office is located, jurisdiction, etc. We honestly don't respond to most subpoenas by the date in which they are due. For example, our corporate office is in Phoenix. If LE in CA gets a subpoena out of CA to release information and we do not expedite the request, what do you think happens? The president of the corporation is arrested? No. They can file for a court order to produce. But really, a subpoena is hardly a threat. Especially when it's in relation to documents. Large corporations have legal departments to defend them. Obviously I wish I could respond to every subpoena the minute I receive it, but for the most part, it's impossible.


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[offdutycriminologist]

We also receive a high volume of emergency requests. Depending on where the corporate office is located, jurisdiction, etc. We honestly don't respond to most subpoenas by the date in which they are due. For example, our corporate office is in Phoenix. If LE in CA gets a subpoena out of CA to release information and we do not expedite the request, what do you think happens? The president of the corporation is arrested? No. They can file for a court order to produce. But really, a subpoena is hardly a threat. Especially when it's in relation to documents. Large corporations have legal departments to defend them. Obviously I wish I could respond to every subpoena the minute I receive it, but for the most part, it's impossible.


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Excellent information. Could you also address the role of third party companies who work with wireless carries to execute warrants for wireless data and phone records?

 

[ellbee]

Excellent information. Could you also address the role of third party companies who work with wireless carries to execute warrants for wireless data and phone records?

Do these exist? I would be surprised. All of our subpoenas are handled internally or with the assistance of outside counsel in which we have on retainer. Phone records and customer information is pretty confidential. Certainly not something that a large company would pass off to another to handle. I know that there are companies that assist with the service of subpoenas and the delivery of responsive documents, but are not involved in the actual details of the case.


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[offdutycriminologist]

Do these exist? I would be surprised. All of our subpoenas are handled internally or with the assistance of outside counsel in which we have on retainer. Phone records and customer information is pretty confidential. Certainly not something that a large company would pass off to another to handle. I know that there are companies that assist with the service of subpoenas and the delivery of responsive documents, but are not involved in the actual details of the case.


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In the cases I have gotten phone data from, the wireless carrier (all one of the major four carriers) complied with the court order but it was processed and sent to me or my organization by a third party who is affiliated with law enforcement in a liaison role.

 

[Force Ten]

An Emergency Request is classified as an emergency request from law enforcement working on kidnappings, missing person cases, attempted suicides, etc.

This case of course falling under missing persons.

I agree with you, however this specific case lacks any proof of imminent threat or that foul play is involved, let alone an abduction.


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[offdutycriminologist]

I agree with you, however this specific case lacks any proof of imminent threat or that foul play is involved, let alone an abduction.


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I agree. California DOJ had them listed as voluntary missing at one point. I'm not sure if that has changed.

 

[ellbee]

In the cases I have gotten phone data from, the wireless carrier (all one of the major four carriers) complied with the court order but it was processed and sent to me or my organization by a third party who is affiliated with law enforcement in a liaison role.

Such as a district/state attorney? Any third parties would probably be affiliated with the court/government. We respond to subpoenas from LE, Homeland Security, FBI, the Department of Justice and State/District Attorney's offices. Most of which are working with LE.


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[offdutycriminologist]

Such as a district/state attorney? Any third parties would probably be affiliated with the court/government. We respond to subpoenas from LE, Homeland Security, FBI, the Department of Justice and State/District Attorney's offices. Most of which are working with LE.


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Ellbee and I figured it out. Disregard my previous memo about third parties.

 

[2bees]

We also receive a high volume of emergency requests. Depending on where the corporate office is located, jurisdiction, etc. We honestly don't respond to most subpoenas by the date in which they are due. For example, our corporate office is in Phoenix. If LE in CA gets a subpoena out of CA to release information and we do not expedite the request, what do you think happens? The president of the corporation is arrested? No. They can file for a court order to produce. But really, a subpoena is hardly a threat. Especially when it's in relation to documents. Large corporations have legal departments to defend them. Obviously I wish I could respond to every subpoena the minute I receive it, but for the most part, it's impossible.


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No one said anything about anyone getting arrested. I don't know what type of company you work for or what records are being requested, nor do I know how difficult it would be to obtain those records. I am only aware of the company I work for where recent data is very easily obtained and can be provided. Again, I know turnaround could vary but in cases of ER I think it's provided relatively quickly when compared to a criminal or civil case requesting data.

It's really a moot point since we don't know what carrier they had or the policies of that company or what has or has not already been obtained. My original post was simply to state that as a company, pulling recent data is not difficult so unless legal hurdles haven't been met, I would imagine the data would be provided fairly quickly. I would also assume if LE is aware of ping data that text and call records which require less effort have also been requested and obtained for this case.

 

[offdutycriminologist]

No one said anything about anyone getting arrested. I don't know what type of company you work for or what records are being requested, nor do I know how difficult it would be to obtain those records. I am only aware of the company I work for where recent data is very easily obtained and can be provided. Again, I know turnaround could vary but in cases of ER I think it's provided relatively quickly when compared to a criminal or civil case requesting data.

It's really a moot point since we don't know what carrier they had or the policies of that company or what has or has not already been obtained. My original post was simply to state that as a company, pulling recent data is not difficult so unless legal hurdles haven't been met, I would imagine the data would be provided fairly quickly. I would also assume if LE is aware of ping data that text and call records which require less effort have also been requested and obtained for this case.

<modsnip> Judges rarely move quickly, especially when you can't prove that the missing person/s isn't in imminent danger. Then if/when you get your warrant you take it to the carrier and stand in line with every other LEO who thinks their emergency is bigger than yours and wait.

 

[2bees]

I agree with you, however this specific case lacks any proof of imminent threat or that foul play is involved, let alone an abduction.


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Well, our policy lists Missing Persons without caveat. So I don't know if the company would request further details to determine urgency before providing. I would think not. I could absolutely be wrong though, but I feel that this case would be cause for ER.

 

[2bees]

<modsnip> Judges rarely move quickly, especially when you can't prove that the missing person/s isn't in imminent danger. Then if/when you get your warrant you take it to the carrier and stand in line with every other LEO who thinks their emergency is bigger than yours and wait.

<modsnip>

I do agree that this is a tough one because on one hand, the wireless company has to protect their customers so voluntarily missing could throw a wrench in PSAP or exigent requests. Then again, missing is missing so I don't know?

 

[ellbee]

<modsnip> Judges rarely move quickly, especially when you can't prove that the missing person/s isn't in imminent danger. Then if/when you get your warrant you take it to the carrier and stand in line with every other LEO who thinks their emergency is bigger than yours and wait.

This is the point that I was making. For the most part, a lot of our subpoenas are "emergencies" and LE believes it should be expedited.


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[ellbee]

No one said anything about anyone getting arrested. I don't know what type of company you work for or what records are being requested, nor do I know how difficult it would be to obtain those records. I am only aware of the company I work for where recent data is very easily obtained and can be provided. Again, I know turnaround could vary but in cases of ER I think it's provided relatively quickly when compared to a criminal or civil case requesting data.

It's really a moot point since we don't know what carrier they had or the policies of that company or what has or has not already been obtained. My original post was simply to state that as a company, pulling recent data is not difficult so unless legal hurdles haven't been met, I would imagine the data would be provided fairly quickly. I would also assume if LE is aware of ping data that text and call records which require less effort have also been requested and obtained for this case.

I work for the legal department for U-Haul International. I say the legal department because there is only 1. We receive tons of subpoenas on a daily basis regarding our U-Haul equipment being used to transport drugs, transport illegal weapons, transport a dead body, transport illegal immigrants, to assist in robbery, you name it.

Prior to any customer information being produced, it has to be reviewed and approved by an attorney. Not only are our attorneys slammed with the numerous other claims we receive on a daily basis, but the amount of time they set aside to drop what they're doing for one of our thousand urgent requests is quite slim.

Is it difficult to pull up the renter of a specific vehicle? Absolutely not. I could pull that up electronically in less than 30 seconds. But I don't have the authority to turn that over. There are a lot of steps involved in order to protect us and our customers. So although it may be relatively simple, it's kind of really not


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[ann1989]

I'm actually familiar with the complications. I'm also aware that of course things take time but this case would fall under an Emergency Request. Not exactly the same turnaround as when there's a civil or criminal case and records are being subpoenaed for court. Especially where one is requesting old data or deactivated account data. Certain data is only stored for so long but in this particular case where recent records were requested and no doubt requested as Emergency, the turnaround would be fairly quick. Imagine the lawsuit there would be if a telecommunications company sat on an Emergency Request that resulted in death that could have been prevented?
By the way, I work for AT&T.

There is a case that I followed wher law enforcement actually was granted a warrant to receive phone records and Sprint was charging $2,000 to expedite the records and they didn't want to pay they were going back and forth with family so emergency missing person or not I think it just depends

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[Force Ten]

Well, our policy lists Missing Persons without caveat. So I don't know if the company would request further details to determine urgency before providing. I would think not. I could absolutely be wrong though, but I feel that this case would be cause for ER.

BBM. Your company's policy may state that, but what I was referencing was LE would not make and 'Emergency Request' based on the evidence (or lack of) thus far.

 

[htiff]

This is the point that I was making. For the most part, a lot of our subpoenas are "emergencies" and LE believes it should be expedited.


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Are you mostly responding to requests from the DEA?

 

[ellbee]

Are you mostly responding to requests from the DEA?

No. Not mostly. As I said previously, we respond to requests from several agencies: DOJ, FBI, Homeland Security - even ATF. We process hundreds of subpoenas a week. I would say mostly from local LE agencies such as police departments and sheriff departments.


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[htiff]

No. Not mostly. As I said previously, we respond to requests from several agencies: DOJ, FBI, Homeland Security - even ATF. We process hundreds of subpoenas a week. I would say mostly from local LE agencies such as police departments and sheriff departments.


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I just thought since issues around UHaul inquiries, would likely involve more than one jurisdiction, you would get more requests from Federal agencies than local. I'm not quite sure I understand why someone would rent a UHaul for illegal activity, if they planned on staying in the same city.

 

[ellbee]

I just thought since issues around UHaul inquiries, would likely involve more than one jurisdiction, you would get more requests from Federal agencies than local. I'm not quite sure I understand why someone would rent a UHaul for illegal activity, if they planned on staying in the same city.

When I said local, I meant local to the area from which the request originated. There are several of jurisdictions involved at times, but that does not involve the DEA or government. Thefts from local businesses are much more common than transporting explosives or drugs. And people seem to think that if they are in a vehicle they rented, LE can't track them. Obviously not the brightest, which is why they have resorted to criminal activity to begin with.


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