CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[Traymar]

The last verified sighting was the dog kennel, according to the kennel staff.
They said Barbara was visibly 'annoyed' or 'aggravated'.

RSBM

Yeah... you know would make me annoyed or aggravated? If I hadn't planned to take my dog to the kennel that day, but my SO insisted I do so for some off-the-wall reason (or no reason at all) and in order to keep the peace I acquiesced, but was still miffed about my SO's irrational request and steadfast insistence...

Of course if I were the steadfast requester there may have indeed been a rational (albeit possibly nefarious?) reason for my insistence, not that I could have communicated it to my partner, of course, since people rarely show much enthusiasm for assisting their killers with pre-murder prep work designed to minimize the killer's potential inconveniences during and/or after the unfortunate event.

Needless to say, the foregoing is MOO, and any resemblance therein to persons living, dead, feared dead, and/or persons engaged in killing others and/or lying about having killed others is strictly coincidental.

MOO MOO

 

[TruthIsStranger]

I know residents of community property states often have false sense of security with premarital asset ownership.

Also, must be careful not to commingle funds. For example, if you carefully titled your inheritance as your sole and separate property held in separate bank account, probably not a good idea to withdraw money from this account to remodel the kitchen in your jointly owned property.

So if you inherit $1,000,000 that you want to keep, but then you spend $10,000 from your sole bank account to remodel a kitchen in your home that you both use, that entitles your spouse to the remaining 990,000? Or what if you buy a spaghetti pot you both cook with, hang a painting in the hallway that you both see each day, or buy your spouse a new car as a gift using that account? Does that mean ALL of the money is now a joint asset? That doesn't seem possible because it would mean you could only purchase things that your spouse never used or could enjoy for the rest of your married life.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think I will keep my focus on *where* is Barb for now, vs. *who*, if anyone, is involved in her missing status. If we find the where, we should get to who.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[al66pine]

Do/Did BT & RT Have a PreNuptial Agreement? Did BT Estab. a Trust?

1) Anyone think BT & RT had/have a PreNup? Why? Or why not?
The two were not 20 y/o starry eyed kids w fairy tale dreams about marriage. Each of them had been married one or more times; and each had w adult children from previous relationships. Imo, they likely had a PreNup. May/may not be a motive for being involved in her disappearance, depending on ID of PoI..

2) Anyone think she had a trust? Why? Or why not?
If there was no PreNup, or even if there was, BT may have estab'ed a trust to assure that her SepProp and her part of CommProp would be passed to beneficiaries of her choice, likely son, gr'children, other fam, charity, maybe, but not necessarily to RT. If so & if ^ is known to certain ppl, may or may not be motive for being involved in her disappearance.

If they had PreNup and/or if she estab'ed a trust, unlikely imo that we/public will learn provisions for a long time. jmo

 

[LAhiker]

Can someone tell me where the kennel is in proximity to the home?
Was it away and in the opposite direction from where they would head to the Kelbaker destination?

The kennel is just over 2 miles from their house. Though I'm not familiar with Bullhead City, its roads and traffic, and though the kennel is north of the house, it looks like one could get to the main roads they might've taken south either before or after going to the kennel. Though I thought it sounded like the dog was dropped off first, the times given for when they were seen leaving and when BT was seen at the kennel were close enough that it's not totally clear which thing happened first.

(I'm not posting the name of the kennel because I can't remember whether the VI mentioned it in a public thread.)

JMO

 

[Tripod]

Bumping for Barb, begging for Barb, praying for Barb, tearing my hair out for Barb..

 

[al66pine]

SepProp & CommProp, and Commingling Them

So if you inherit $1,000,000 that you want to keep, but then (1) you spend $10,000 from your sole bank account to remodel a kitchen in your home that you both use, that entitles your spouse to the remaining 990,000? (2) Or what if you buy a spaghetti pot you both cook with, hang a painting in the hallway that you both see each day, or (3) buy your spouse a new car as a gift using that account? (4) Does that mean ALL of the money is now a joint asset? hat doesn't seem possible because it would mean you could only purchase things that

your spouse never used or could enjoy for the rest of your married life.

@TruthIsStranger Added red #'s ^ to your post and to mine too. My thoughts below.
(1) No, ^ does not entitle spouse to other $990,000 of SepProp. Let' say, generic-you and spouse divorce. The $10,000 from SepProp a/c that generic-you spent may be seen (at time of divorce) as having been converted to CommProp (at time of kitchen work). If so, calculation may be: house sales proceeds less house purchase price, then may be split down the middle. IOW, generic-you may not get 'credit' for that expenditure on house.*
(2) Forget the spaghetti pot.
(3) If person w SepProp uses some of that $ to buy spouse a new car, arranges for car title/registration in name of spouse only, could also execute a 'Deed of Gift,' similar writing/document to identify/designate it as a gift to spouse.
(4) No.
jmo **

---------------------------------------------------
* Spouse files divorce petition ~6 mo's later, because spouse wanted to do a full $50,000 kitchen remodel, not a quickie $10,000 kitchen 'touch-up.' J/K, sorry.
** Above is not legal advice. IANAL. Consult attorney in your jurisdiction for legal advice.
Above info is given only as hypothetical examples and is not intended to apply to or reflect on any assets, accounts, or property Robert or Barbara Thomas may have.

 

[Seattle1]

So if you inherit $1,000,000 that you want to keep, but then you spend $10,000 from your sole bank account to remodel a kitchen in your home that you both use, that entitles your spouse to the remaining 990,000? Or what if you buy a spaghetti pot you both cook with, hang a painting in the hallway that you both see each day, or buy your spouse a new car as a gift using that account? Does that mean ALL of the money is now a joint asset? That doesn't seem possible because it would mean you could only purchase things that your spouse never used or could enjoy for the rest of your married life.

Let me be clear. Investment in joint ownership asset is clearly not the same as a spaghetti pot or an auto given as a gift.

 

[1&2&3]

They were married, correct?

Why the mention of Comm Property? In my state, Comm Property is only between couples not married but who have lived together for a stated length of time.

Perhaps the Pre-Nup, if there was one, had a time limit that was approaching where there would be a big change. As I know them to be, the wife will get more of her husband’s estate. Or could be the husband got more if BT was wealthy on her own.

Wait a minute - that could be it! RT was to receive more money from BT’s estate after a certain date. The day had already passed. . . .

A pre-nup May say after 15 years of marriage, my husband is to receive 50% of my estate. Where she had originally only left him 25%.*** This is just an example***

Anyway we can find out? Wills are not public knowledge until after a person is deceased are they?

 

[dbdb11]

What has he not been honest about?
I’m so sorry for this horrific situation your family is facing.

details surrounding barbara's disappearance: before, during and after.

 

[Cherwell]

What has he not been honest about?

details surrounding barbara's disappearance: before, during and after.

Do you mean that he has said things that have been proved to be lies, or that he has withheld information? Or both?

 

[PommyMommy]

The kennel is just over 2 miles from their house. Though I'm not familiar with Bullhead City, its roads and traffic, and though the kennel is north of the house, it looks like one could get to the main roads they might've taken south either before or after going to the kennel. Though I thought it sounded like the dog was dropped off first, the times given for when they were seen leaving and when BT was seen at the kennel were close enough that it's not totally clear which thing happened first.

(I'm not posting the name of the kennel because I can't remember whether the VI mentioned it in a public thread.)

JMO

July 12
8:10 a.m. Kennel
8:15 a.m. Neighbor

MOO

 

[deugirtni]

The kennel is just over 2 miles from their house. Though I'm not familiar with Bullhead City, its roads and traffic, and though the kennel is north of the house, it looks like one could get to the main roads they might've taken south either before or after going to the kennel. Though I thought it sounded like the dog was dropped off first, the times given for when they were seen leaving and when BT was seen at the kennel were close enough that it's not totally clear which thing happened first.

(I'm not posting the name of the kennel because I can't remember whether the VI mentioned it in a public thread.)

JMO

LietKynes said: ?
Barbara did at 8:30, alone -- and the staff said she seemed visibly distraught.

8:10 I was told.
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dbdb11, Aug 8, 2019 #856
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5
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The source for last sighting is a neighbour's surveillance cam. I'm still waiting to see this footage, but I am trusting the source.
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dbdb11, Jul 27, 2019 #979
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3
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Stripehaven said: ?
@dbdb11 , are you able to tell us when Rob and your aunt were seen leaving their home?

815 am on morning of 12th
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dbdb11, Jul 26, 2019 #869
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3
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Imho, it only makes sense they would've taken the dog to the kennel on their way OUT, while getting on their way for their camping trip, and especially since the neighbor's CCTV sighting never mentioned recording them leaving *twice* (first to take the dog, then to come back home and leave again)?

However, given RT's apparent aversion to making stops in parking lots with his RV attached, it's quite possible they first left to take the dog, returned home to attach the RV, and then left on their trip - but then where is the recording of *both* of those movements of leaving the home? Also, good point about checking both times for accuracy, since the two times are so close.

Given that RT then stopped some 45 minutes later just for a bag of ice seems a bit odd. Seems they knew how to plan, as seen by dropping the dog, letting BT's relatives know she'd be unreachable due to camping trip, and I don't think we have heard about a fuel stop - which would suggest he'd already filled up in anticipation of this trip. Why not also have purchased the ice, which would've been a known requirement for this trip? Stick ice in freezer until ready to roll. Makes one wonder about the possibility of a different motive for making that particular stop?

Not to doubt the neighbor, but as far as we have heard, that footage has not been shown to our VI for confirmation, or to see the final sighting of his aunt. Why not? Is it somewhat subjective as to whether or not B is in the footage? Is it possible the recording caught something that looked like (perhaps with prompting) it *could* have been a person, namely BT in the passenger seat? It would be great to have more details of the angle/view caught by this camera. Is it possible the neighbor is supporting RT, being his neighbor?

 

[Kapua]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I wholeheartedly believe BT is findable. The McStays were found. Erin Corwin was found. IMHO, the initial search did not take place anywhere near where she is. If a search of that nature occurred in the correct location, I am convinced that she would be found. As I've pointed out before, while it's a big desert, there are few roads through it. MOO

 

[PaulR]

Anyway we can find out? Wills are not public knowledge until after a person is deceased are they?

Yes, but BT is missing. It's five years until she can be declared dead per Arizona/CA law, at least according to my web searches. (This story about a missing man has some surface similarities to BT: Legally Declaring Dead In Arizona - Person is Presumed Dead)

Only then would RT be able to go through court proceedings to say BT was deceased, then the will would be probated and it would be a public record that you could request.

If she had her assets in a trust, then the will would just be a pour-over will that gives everything to the trust; the trust is not a public document.

 

[?mysterian?]

Here's some information about AZ being a community property state : Living In a Community Property State

ETA: Link to specific statutes of the AZ Legislature Arizona Revised Statutes

 

[LietKynes]

details surrounding barbara's disappearance: before, during and after.

This ^^^
Thank you for your input, @dbdb11 !
Helps us to focus on the important aspects of this case and namely the 'hows' and 'whys'.

 

[PaulR]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Getting contact information for friends, family, etc. is part of the California guidebook for missing person cases.

https://post.ca.gov/Portals/0/post_docs/publications/Missing_Persons_Investigations.pdf

Specifically guideline 2.2, section I: "Obtain a list of persons known by the missing person e.g, friends, co-workers, acquaintances, associates, etc."

 

[LietKynes]

Thanks for clarifying, @deugirtni !
I was unsure about the dog kennel sighting.

It's possible they had more than one vehicle, but RT could've driven Barbara to the kennel and waited while she dropped off her dog.

While trying to sleep last night, I thought about RT's description of her .
We wouldn't know what she was wearing or that she carried an alcoholic beverage without his "evidence". I placed quotes as until I see the photo of her on that last day I am thinking she could've worn something else.

Let's say the mystery kidnapper said to Barbara. " Look, I'll let you go after I get the ransom demand; but I want to take a photo of you in a bikini by this rock formation ; to prove that you were out here at this exact location ... "
Or something like that.
So if she's found, that's what she'll be wearing.
Tbh, I would never have suspected an abductor if it hadn't been for RT's suggestion.
That just seems so far 'out there'.

Graphic warning :

If she was wearing just that, if found deceased -- it'll be harder to locate her, as sometimes only bones and scraps of clothing are discovered.
And if the missing person was wearing little clothing, there'll be even less to find.
Animal predation and the wind could scatter everything.


If my spouse went missing and I told his family that a random person just happened to drive by and abducted him because of what he was wearing ; they'd be demanding some answers and rightfully so.
MOO

 

[nannymo]

Yes, but BT is missing. It's five years until she can be declared dead per Arizona/CA law, at least according to my web searches. (This story about a missing man has some surface similarities to BT: Legally Declaring Dead In Arizona - Person is Presumed Dead)

Only then would RT be able to go through court proceedings to say BT was deceased, then the will would be probated and it would be a public record that you could request.

If she had her assets in a trust, then the will would just be a pour-over will that gives everything to the trust; the trust is not a public document.

This is what I always thought until I followed the Michael Chambers case in my home state. Check it out. His wife started proceedings to have his Estate settled within a few weeks of going missing. Defies all I have ever read about missing persons here in Texas, but she made it happen. Lots of discussion about this "piece of paper" which turned out to be a death certificate issued within 4 or 5 months from him going missing.
TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1