CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[deugirtni]

This is what I always thought until I followed the Michael Chambers case in my home state. Check it out. His wife started proceedings to have his Estate settled within a few weeks of going missing. Defies all I have ever read about missing persons here in Texas, but she made it happen. Lots of discussion about this "piece of paper" which turned out to be a death certificate issued within 4 or 5 months from him going missing.
TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1

Interesting to contrast that with a case here where a murdered woman's body has never been found (and apparently we know WHY it was never found, and it never WILL be found), and we *know* all of this due to the killers being found guilty of her murder - and yet even years later, the family has not been able to obtain a certificate of death, which is causing them strife. (Laura Babcock killing by Dellen Millard and Mark Smich in Canada) Crazy town.

 

[PaulR]

This is what I always thought until I followed the Michael Chambers case in my home state. Check it out. His wife started proceedings to have his Estate settled within a few weeks of going missing. Defies all I have ever read about missing persons here in Texas, but she made it happen. Lots of discussion about this "piece of paper" which turned out to be a death certificate issued within 4 or 5 months from him going missing.
TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1

There's a claim that a PI hired by the family found a fair amount of blood. That could have been enough for the family to make the claim that he must be dead. I know there have been convictions for murder even though a corpse has not been found, due to the sheer amount of blood found; "The Murder Room" talks about one of these cases.

 

[deugirtni]

Getting contact information for friends, family, etc. is part of the California guidebook for missing person cases.

https://post.ca.gov/Portals/0/post_docs/publications/Missing_Persons_Investigations.pdf

Specifically guideline 2.2, section I: "Obtain a list of persons known by the missing person e.g, friends, co-workers, acquaintances, associates, etc."

But if the missing person has a *husband* who is obviously already aware, wouldn't police stop there, assuming the husband would notify all the other relatives that would need to know? Why would they keep looking for more people to notify? Where would it end? I can understand your premise if the person didn't have a spouse, parent, offspring that already knows, and could only find coworkers or friends, but in this case the husband already knows.

 

[PaulR]

But if the missing person has a *husband* who is obviously already aware, wouldn't police stop there, assuming the husband would notify all the other relatives that would need to know? Why would they keep looking for more people to notify? Where would it end? I can understand your premise if the person didn't have a spouse, parent, offspring that already knows, and could only find coworkers or friends, but in this case the husband already knows.

Problems:

You contact people to get information - have you heard from her, did she somehow get to the airport and hop an earlier flight, has someone contacted you asking for ransom, did she and RT have a fight/was she talking about getting divorced, etc. That's LEO's job to ask those questions. Not RT.

Also: Why would you expect the husband to contact everyone in her family? His wife is missing, possibly dead or (according to what he theorized at the time) kidnapped. You're asking someone who thinks his wife is in danger or possibly dead to make phone calls to her entire family letting them know, while he's mentally trying to process this? And if he is a suspect/POI, you definitely don't want him in charge of the calls (or maybe you have him make the calls while he's at the station, so you can listen to what he says.)

 

[deugirtni]

I remember eons ago when I was a child spending the summer at the family cottage up north, we went on a little boat ride with my aunt and cousins who also had a cottage up there. When we returned back to her dock, uniformed police were waiting. Immediately my aunt started freaking out, crying. I guess she knew. They were there to report that her mother had died. They did not go and seek out other family members, because their job was done, they had notified next of kin, and it was now up to my aunt to notify the rest of the family (I suppose unless my aunt asked them to notify someone if she didn't want to speak to them?). (Just as in this case, it was up to RT to notify B's son unless RT had told them the two weren't speaking and to ask them to notify him.) imo.

 

[PaulR]

I remember eons ago when I was a child spending the summer at the family cottage up north, we went on a little boat ride with my aunt and cousins who also had a cottage up there. When we returned back to her dock, uniformed police were waiting. Immediately my aunt started freaking out, crying. I guess she knew. They were there to report that her mother had died. They did not go and seek out other family members, because their job was done, they had notified next of kin, and it was now up to my aunt to notify the rest of the family (I suppose unless my aunt asked them to notify someone if she didn't want to speak to them?). (Just as in this case, it was up to RT to notify B's son unless RT had told them the two weren't speaking and to ask them to notify him.) imo.

Since they already knew the mother had died, yes, they're going to let the family handle it. BT is a missing person's case. It's still a missing person's case, until she is found.

 

[deugirtni]

Problems:

You contact people to get information - have you heard from her, did she somehow get to the airport and hop an earlier flight, has someone contacted you asking for ransom, did she and RT have a fight/was she talking about getting divorced, etc. That's LEO's job to ask those questions. Not RT.

Also: Why would you expect the husband to contact everyone in her family? His wife is missing, possibly dead or (according to what he theorized at the time) kidnapped. You're asking someone who thinks his wife is in danger or possibly dead to make phone calls to her entire family letting them know, while he's mentally trying to process this? And if he is a suspect/POI, you definitely don't want him in charge of the calls (or maybe you have him make the calls while he's at the station, so you can listen to what he says.)

We're talking about right away though. Police said there was no evidence of an abduction, and according to the nine or 10 day search, one would presume they believed she was simply lost in the desert at that time. Was there a need at that time to be investigating and asking all kinds of questions about her whereabouts preceding her disappearance? I guess it depends on whether or not they suspected something fishy from minute#1?

 

[PaulR]

We're talking about right away though. Police said there was no evidence of an abduction, and according to the nine or 10 day search, one would presume they believed she was simply lost in the desert at that time. Was there a need at that time to be investigating and asking all kinds of questions about her whereabouts preceding her disappearance? I guess it depends on whether or not they suspected something fishy from minute#1?

Police said there no evidence of an abduction a week after she was reported missing (July 19th according to the media thread.) They looked for a week before the information officer made that statement.

It doesn't have anything to do with being "fishy." Getting contact information for friends/family/etc. is prescribed no matter why the person is missing according to state guidelines on missing persons investigations.

 

[deugirtni]

Police said there no evidence of an abduction a week after she was reported missing (July 19th according to the media thread.) They looked for a week before the information officer made that statement.

It doesn't have anything to do with being "fishy." Getting contact information for friends/family/etc. is prescribed no matter why the person is missing according to state guidelines on missing persons investigations.

Then perhaps you might explain *why* police did not notify *anyone* in B's family?

 

[PaulR]

Then perhaps you might explain *why* police did not notify *anyone* in B's family?

I think that's the question all of us should be asking LE.

 

[LietKynes]

An unbiased opinion is that maybe LE thought RT would notify Barbara's family ?
All it would have taken was for RT to contact the son and the son would've contacted the rest of the family.
Just one person.
Why didn't this happen ?
The questions should be at Barbara's husband, and not LE. Imo.

After all, he is a victim and as such would've received support had he reached out.

 

[PaulR]

An unbiased opinion is that maybe LE thought RT would notify Barbara's family ?
All it would have taken was for RT to contact the son and the son would've contacted the rest of the family.
Just one person.
Why didn't this happen ?
The questions should be at Barbara's husband, and not LE. Imo.

After all, he is a victim and as such would've received support had he reached out.

Still, there are questions that LE would ask family of a missing person - was there anything going on that LE should know about: impending divorce/argument with husband (possible murder), BT settling her affairs/talking about death (possible suicide), BT somehow getting to China early (not missing at all), etc. It's a missing person investigation, and LE should be asking questions of the family. That's not RT's responsibility.

As far as receiving support from Barbara's family if he reached out to them... I think it's clear how that would have gone.

 

[LietKynes]

Still, there are questions that LE would ask family of a missing person - was there anything going on that LE should know about: impending divorce/argument with husband (possible murder), BT settling her affairs/talking about death (possible suicide), BT somehow getting to China early (not missing at all), etc. It's a missing person investigation, and LE should be asking questions of the family. That's not RT's responsibility.

As far as receiving support from Barbara's family if he reached out to them... I think it's clear how that would have gone.

BBM

I think you misunderstood my comment.
I only meant that RT could have called one person in Barbara's family.
Get the ball rolling, so to speak.
Even a brief voice mail --saying that she was hiking and either became lost or was kidnapped.
Then hang up so no one would pester him with inquiries.

Agree with you that LE could certainly ask many questions.
It would be surprising if they didn't.
But I appreciate your posts !

 

[10ofRods]

I think that's the question all of us should be asking LE.

Initially, we heard here on these forums that RT gave the wrong number for BT's son to police. It's not clear if it was in his phone improperly, whether he read it off improperly, whether he tried to recite it from memory, etc.

 

[PaulR]

Initially, we heard here on these forums that RT gave the wrong number for BT's son to police. It's not clear if it was in his phone improperly, whether he read it off improperly, whether he tried to recite it from memory, etc.

I'm not sure why LE didn't just get the number off his cell phone.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think that's the question all of us should be asking LE.

Maybe they only notify immediate family. They tried to reach Barbara's son but apparently the number RT gave them was wrong. Or maybe the number they found in his phone was not the right one. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm not sure why LE didn't just get the number off his cell phone.

I thought that's how they eventually found it. The first number they tried was not the right number. RT probably didn't know his number, but LE were able to find it in the phone. Imo

 

[PaulR]

Maybe they only notify immediate family. They tried to reach Barbara's son but apparently the number RT gave them was wrong. Or maybe the number they found in his phone was not the right one. IMO

Or they got it wrong. I've had to write down phone numbers for people who seem to be unable to remember more than one digit in short-term memory.

 

[deugirtni]

Still, there are questions that LE would ask family of a missing person - was there anything going on that LE should know about: impending divorce/argument with husband (possible murder), BT settling her affairs/talking about death (possible suicide), BT somehow getting to China early (not missing at all), etc. It's a missing person investigation, and LE should be asking questions of the family. That's not RT's responsibility.

As far as receiving support from Barbara's family if he reached out to them... I think it's clear how that would have gone.

I am not convincd that LE would start an investigation questioning other people B knew, *unless* they suspected that RT's story was not true. He reported it, said he was obviously the last to have seen her, knew exactly where he saw her last, he reportedly reported after she'd been missing only one hour, he reported he'd lost sight of her within 5 minutes of the RV.. LE aren't psychics, and so they may have taken his report at face value (although five hours in the back of a police vehicle may suggest that perhaps it wasn't at face value, I don't know?), and carried on with what they would normally do with a person reported missing in the desert. Why would LE imagine for a moment that the MP's husband would NOT have notified her immediate family? He even went on TV - which is a big risk to take if the family has not even been notified yet.. so who would've guessed that he had not yet done this? When her body was not found after days, or if things started NOT adding up, like say a lie detector test or story lines, or time lines, or whatever, *then* I can imagine and I hope that LE would follow up with other people BT knew, to see if there may be more to the story. imo.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm not sure why LE didn't just get the number off his cell phone.

If I had to guess, I would assume that's what they did. I think it was after Barbara was missing about 6 days that LE contacted him.

And I agree with MsBetsy's proposal about what went down. At any rate, very few of us have "go missing" kits with numbers stored carefully to give to police. Presumably, RT was/is cooperating with LE and gave them his password so that they could check out his phone.

That's why I think his phone has to show his whereabouts as roughly consistent with what RT has said publicly.