CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3

[Gardener1850]

it can be sleuthed.

for the record, robbie did not inform barbs son she was missing. he found out from police six or so days later.

Does that mean that police did not take RT's cell phone to examine it until 6 days later? I thought I had read previously that LE got his number from looking at the cell phone, correct? Putting aside the surprise of RT not calling Barb's son, 6 days also seems like a really long time for LE to wait to investigate phone numbers in the phone and contact her son.

MOO

 

[firstsleuth]

DBM

 

[LaborDayRN]

Are we allowed to refer to public comments on MSM articles?

Edit: Apparently not.

We can can say something along the lines of "interesting comments here" and add a link. The content of the comments cannot be discussed here however.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Current status: Flabbergasted.

That is beyond the pale. Totally inexcusable.

It's. his. MOM.

So, RT was off granting interviews to reporters for the tv cameras whilst BT's son remained completely unaware and in the dark about the fact that his mother had vanished without a trace in the desert?

That ain't right.

JMO.

I couldn't agree more. :-(

 

[k-mac]

I think it is either/or. Trying to put myself in their shoes for a moment, under my bed and after a very long marriage of almost 5 decades now, I have saved loving notes on cards from my husband each birthday or anniversary. Not all of course, but some which touched me more then others.

BUT if my husband were suddenly missing, "poof" around a corner, that is the LAST thing I'd ever think of pulling out for an interview in such a crucial time as this.

Just sayin'....

and realizing of course, everyone is different. But honestly, I know my husband wouldn't either. Not in a million years, he is FAR more emotional then I am and probably wouldn't be able to string 10 words together, even a year later.

his need to prove to the world...see! she did love me is the biggest red flag.

we all have love notes I am sure from our lovers. but they are deeply private.
it made me cringe his desperate need to express this.

moo

 

[agt1965]

it can be sleuthed.

for the record, robbie did not inform barbs son she was missing. he found out from police six or so days later.

I was wondering if either of them have had problems with memory, or any early signs of dementia? They’re obviously not frail feeble people but active older people often don’t like to admit that they are more forgetful or get things confused. That could apply to either one of them, he could be confused as to directions, times or events, she may have gotten lost, etc. I spent a good deal of time on some hot rugged terrain and prolonged exposure to sun, dehydration, hunger, or certain health problems can increase confusion or exacerbate memory loss problems.
I’ve had problems myself with that type of thing, especially if having hypoglycemic episode, so please don’t take that the wrong way. Things ‘never’ happen, until they do. I so hope for a good outcome. It looks like they were enjoying life.

 

[lonetraveler]

Why Reach behind Woman and Put Hand Behind RT's Neck?


"... even when a little distance between them she still wants to have her arm around him..."

^ meaning what? Maybe ...
- RT was goofing around, making faces w others - in the group or off camera - to prompt him to stand up straighten, compose expression, turn to camera for pic?
- to display affection re RT, for his sake only?
- to display affection re RT, for the camera & ppl seeing pic in future?
- jealousy/territorial marking, to remind the woman between them that RT 'belongs' to BT, not other woman. Purely speculation, no basis: IDK who she is.
- to straighten up his collar which had been cattywampus a second before?
- none of the above?

I'm drawing no conclusions about their relationship on basis of this pic or the few other clues we/I have ATM. JMO.

I can give one scenario. Maybe he was complaining about how long it was taking to get the photo done and she was touching him to let him know to please, please, please don't embarrass her in front of family and please, please, please just be patient.

 

[Liwthe]

Does that mean that police did not take RT's cell phone to examine it until 6 days later? I thought I had read previously that LE got his number from looking at the cell phone, correct? Putting aside the surprise of RT not calling Barb's son, 6 days also seems like a really long time for LE to wait to investigate phone numbers in the phone and contact her son.

MOO

As far as I understand (which is not a lot), Police use public records to locate family members. They would not need to peruse someone’s cell phone 6 days later.

On RT, if he did not have his cellphone because it was handed in immediately which I’m sure it would have been, he may not have had the number memorized (although very unlikely he wouldn’t be able to get it through family).

He may have assumed LE informed him (which would be likely). Or other family as he was entrenched in the search/investigation. T

hey may have not been close as he may have been grown and moved away since his marriage to BT. On that note, given the family knew, why hadn’t anyone else told him? It sounds odd.

I don’t imagine it’s always incumbent upon the spouse to alert all the family personally if they were in fact the victim as they would be a mess, under scrutiny, dealing with extreme confusion and grief. The first person they might call may be a SIL for instance, and assume they would inform others.

For the record, it sounds like a bad rumor to me, but that’s pure speculation.

 

[MsGazette]

There are some oddball aspects to this case. One is that RT wasn't allowed into the search area and apparently did not go back to it. Why is he so committed to the abduction narrative? You'd think that a devoted husband would be keen to search in a wider area than the SAR people were searching. He clearly thinks it's near impossible that she would have wandered too far away.

The search expanded each day for 10 days which is why I think LE definitely thinks/thought she was out there. If they do have his phone records and nothing else happens, then I think it's safe to assume she's out there.

I did want to say that this media business of describing people as "experienced hikers" when the hikers in question did not do any of the cautious things that truly experienced hikers always do (never get out of the car without your 10 essentials kind of hikers)...is codswallop.

If BT had acted in any normal, experienced hiker kind of way (less than half a mile from a road, according to RT), she'd have been found. If we give RT the benefit of the doubt and he was only 10 minutes behind her, at most, then she disappeared without a trace very quickly indeed. Hence the variety of opinions here on WS. Occam's razor is hard to apply when common behavior is not observed. BT did not stay near the RV for the 10 minutes it took for RT to catch up to her? BT could not find the RV (which was apparently visible from many points along the trail)?

I agree with all of this. Good points.

 

[Lore Listener]

For this man to save the little love notes his wife puts on his pillow, it is very telling.

In order for Barbara to have the feeling to always make such a gesture her man has to be very loving to her. IMO

I'm about 10 pages behind, so someone may have already addressed this, but I totally disagree. Many abused women (not saying Barbara was abused) and women in terrible relationships make lovely, tender gestures of love even though their partner is a real jerk? Why? Women are socialized that they can make things better or make their partner kinder or gentler or more loving, just by being good and sweet and perfect enough. Some religious groups and religious counselors even teach that--if he's a bear, it's your job to be sweeter and sexier and more submissive.

 

[tara83]

How do we know her son was telling the truth that he wasn’t informed?

What possible reason would he have to lie about something like that?

 

[PaulR]

What possible reason would he have to lie about something like that?

BT is alive, not missing, just hiding. Just one example.

 

[sroad]

My reaction, if I were the lagging spouse and my spouse was not at the agreed-upon meeting spot would be to:

• honk the horn, 3 beeps at a time; stand on the hood or top of RV to see a greater sweep of the area (I'd assume he had just gone into the bush for toilet reasons)
• uncouple the truck from the RV and make a rapid sweep of the road in both directions, in case s/he was at a different pull-out
• before leaving on this task, I'd open the RV (thieves be damned) and write a note telling him/her to stay put, that I'd be back in 5-10 minutes (and then do a couple of searches up and down the road)
• I'd call 911 within 20 minutes
• If I knew we had been separated for only 10 minutes, I know my spouse's walking rate - he could get almost a mile in that time, so I'd write all that down and I would have already checked the road a mile or two in each direction (and I'd be driving fast)
• Then, I'd be back on foot, retracing the trail and any side trails (there were side trails in this area). I'd honk more before doing that and would be yelling the entire time.
• I'd use markers to indicate the trail I thought was the one we'd taken and where we'd last seen each other; almost anything could be used for this, but if I used things familiar to my spouse, he'd know I had left crumbs if he was actually turned around. I'd use bottled water as one of those markers and stash along the trail and in the area beyond the RV, at side of trail/road
• I'd try and stay to the side of the trail in case others were better at sussing out footprints than I am

BTW, my assumption would be that my spouse did what they said they were going to do (go back to RV). If I got there and the key was still under the rock, I'd assume they couldn't find it (common issue) and that they were in the bush. So I'd be yelling (and using my new whistle). We both know the make, model & color of each others' shoes.

I always check the time when we separate anywhere, and announce it pretty loudly to DH because he loses track of time quickly. I didn't used to wear a watch, but I do now. All the time.



Yes, this is exactly what I'd do if I were the "missing person" in this scenario. You can bet on it. Not able to find key under rock? Yep, right back over to that trail and over to where I last saw hubby, and he would be hearing about it. And yes, the RV itself would be my choice of shade. Which is why, unless she wandered out by that other, smaller trail that headed south and ended up at different dirt pull out (which is the only theory I have that makes sense). If she then assumed she needed to head back to where he was, it would have been at least an additional 2 miles round trip. She could been distracted and easily gotten on that second trail and gone a half a mile or more before realizing she was in the wrong place - but people lose track of time and distance easily out there. Watches are essential, to my way of thinking.

Hubby would never hear the end of the key/rock thing in that case.

You can see the main trail diagonally in the lower right corner, with two spur trails leading toward the dry creek/rock formations. The second one also forms an intersection with a southbound trail (smaller, but still visibly a trail). If she took the spur trail with RT and then left on her own, she might have forgotten they turned and she would have stayed straight (because she was thinking they walked straight the entire time). It's hard to describe. Anyway, you can see that there are other trails and she could have walked back from the truck and not managed to remember which spur trail to turn on - they did search the area where she would have been, as a result, very thoroughly.

Getting on the roof and honking would have been a good strategy, the sound would have carried easily a mile up there! I want to point out that the north south dirt road that intersects the trail to the nearest rock formations with the "caves" as RT calls them is a pole line road, so if BT had accidentally gotten onto this dirt road she would realize pretty quick that this is different due to the power poles adjacent to the dirt road, and due to the fact that she was now walking parallel to Kelbaker Rd instead of towards it. On Google Earth you don't see many bends in the main trail, but I was surprised at how I could only see about 100-150 feet of the dirt road at a time before it "rounded a corner" which really means rounds a bend.

Also want to reiterate that going cross country through this terrain (which I did most of the time to search), is rife with pencil cholla and other cholla type cacti (the spines have hooks that are painful to pull out of the skin) . I was wearing long pants, and those hooks still got me on a number of occasions, and I'm used to walking cross country through the deserts. So she would have not willingly chosen to hike off-trail, it's just a lot more painful to walk in shorts through the denser vegetation. I'm attaching the trail and view towards the 5th wheel trailer turnout parking area.

 

[Onebest]

imo if robbies info is reliable, and the area he said they were in is where they in fact were, wrong turn on trail has been ruled out.

medical event resulting in.her wandering beyond search area is a possibility, but save that, id strike her getting lost right off the page.

i saw the aerial and ground photos from sroads who wandered the area.

I have a horrid sense of direction and I live in desert terrain, there is no way I could get lost in an area with a two lane highway and cars every so often. I would just stop and listen for the next car.

And thank you! for help resolving my thought about her perhaps accepting a ride. That theory one less to consider for me.

 

[sorrell skye]

It would be a cunning ruse. On day hikes that don’t require two packs, it’s not unusual for one partner to do the carrying (often the male) or even to share the weight by both carrying at some point. I see it all the time on trails, and do the same.

I agree, Liwthe. Oftentimes on our short hikes, my partner wears the pack (which includes a camelbak) - mainly because I don't want to wear the pack unless I have to. On longer hikes, I'll also wear a camelbak backpack so that I'll have access to water.

When I've hiked with my partner and also with my youngest daughter, my partner & my daughter will both wear a camelbak backpack, so that at least two of us are carrying a water source. During our hikes, if one of us lags behind (for whatever reason) we each make it a point to stop at intervals (if we lose sight of one another) and wait for the one who lagged behind, just so that we all stay together and are safe. This has always been our hiking practice.

However, as has been reported, this wasn't a long hike, but has been characterized as a "walk" - a "two mile walk".

I'm mystified as to what may have happened to Barbara in the short time span after RT says he last spotted her.

 

[firstsleuth]

Are we allowed to ask dbdb11 (VI) about the credibility of the rumors arising from the breadcrumbs trail? Does he know when Barbara’s son might speak to the media? Or, is it likely that he will not?

As for what happened to Barbara, it is such a mystery. My husband and I are avid hikers. I have looked at all the photos posted here as well as the Google maps 360° photo and the street view. I also found the highlighted trail route posted extremely helpful. In my opinion, this walk was extremely simple. If my husband and I were hiking this route, the only reason we might separate is if we needed a bit of space from each other. We hike together bc we love being with each other; but we also are comfortable hiking alone. On this route, the disappearance of either of us would’ve caused the one still there to almost immediately decide there is NOWHERE else we could be, therefore something bad has happened. We each, in the same circumstances, would be all over the police, the rescuers, insisting they clear us as soon as possible so they could stop wasting time...I would’ve wanted roadblocks, expanded searches, etc. My mind would’ve instantly gone to abduction. My husband mostly agrees, he said first he would’ve checked the spur trails. No way was Barbara climbing in those rocks. It was way too hot. But not too hot for a hike! We live in Phoenix, so we are acclimated to the heat

 

[Liwthe]

I'm about 10 pages behind, so someone may have already addressed this, but I totally disagree. Many abused women (not saying Barbara was abused) and women in terrible relationships make lovely, tender gestures of love even though their partner is a real jerk? Why? Women are socialized that they can make things better or make their partner kinder or gentler or more loving, just by being good and sweet and perfect enough. Some religious groups and religious counselors even teach that--if he's a bear, it's your job to be sweeter and sexier and more submissive.

I agree, this is very true.

This is difficult, as there isn’t much to speculate on. We know it’s difficult to judge demeanor, and we can see from this thread alone, interpretations of someone’s behavior are as varied as people are. We’re subjective and compare to our own experiences.

It’s hard to judge from a few photos.

People have found attire, the walk, the beverage, and other things many others don’t find unusual for some people very questionable.

The owning or not of a cellphone is also a subjective conversation and we’ve found it’s not highly unusual, less so as you are in older age groups.

Lie detectors - they really are ineffective and tend to be used to see if the suspect will cooperate in agreeing to one more than anything else.

So it appears until better evidence comes in, we have a lot of subjective stuff. It’s normal to be concerned due to the statistics of crime. But in the absence of a crime being committed (and we don’t know if there is any evidence yet), people do get lost (quite often), and even abducted.

It’s difficult, that’s for sure as we’re naturally looking for any hint, any clue in his behavior that would indicate a cold blooded murderer (it would have to have some planning you’d think, or at least a good cover up effort). I think sometimes people’s behavior makes it so obvious by the things they do (withdrawing money, seeing new lovers etc). But here, nothing has been reported much other than things to speculate on, none of which are highly indicative of anything to me alone, or taken as a whole, just yet. MOO

 

[firstsleuth]

What possible reason would he have to lie about something like that?

When I followed the breadcrumbs, I was skeptical

 

[moonrise]

Getting on the roof and honking would have been a good strategy, the sound would have carried easily a mile up there! I want to point out that the north south dirt road that intersects the trail to the nearest rock formations with the "caves" as RT calls them is a pole line road, so if BT had accidentally gotten onto this dirt road she would realize pretty quick that this is different due to the power poles adjacent to the dirt road, and due to the fact that she was now walking parallel to Kelbaker Rd instead of towards it. On Google Earth you don't see many bends in the main trail, but I was surprised at how I could only see about 100-150 feet of the dirt road at a time before it "rounded a corner" which really means rounds a bend.

Also want to reiterate that going cross country through this terrain (which I did most of the time to search), is rife with pencil cholla and other cholla type cacti (the spines have hooks that are painful to pull out of the skin) . I was wearing long pants, and those hooks still got me on a number of occasions, and I'm used to walking cross country through the deserts. So she would have not willingly chosen to hike off-trail, it's just a lot more painful to walk in shorts through the denser vegetation. I'm attaching the trail and view towards the 5th wheel trailer turnout parking area.

In the first photo, that trail going off to the left of the photo ... where does that lead? It would be super-easy to mistakenly take a right after circling the rocks, and go down the wrong trail, instead of taking a left and going back to the camper. I would assume that LE searched in that direction as well as the area between the rocks and the camper.

 

[Gardener1850]

Getting on the roof and honking would have been a good strategy, the sound would have carried easily a mile up there! I want to point out that the north south dirt road that intersects the trail to the nearest rock formations with the "caves" as RT calls them is a pole line road, so if BT had accidentally gotten onto this dirt road she would realize pretty quick that this is different due to the power poles adjacent to the dirt road, and due to the fact that she was now walking parallel to Kelbaker Rd instead of towards it. On Google Earth you don't see many bends in the main trail, but I was surprised at how I could only see about 100-150 feet of the dirt road at a time before it "rounded a corner" which really means rounds a bend.

Also want to reiterate that going cross country through this terrain (which I did most of the time to search), is rife with pencil cholla and other cholla type cacti (the spines have hooks that are painful to pull out of the skin) . I was wearing long pants, and those hooks still got me on a number of occasions, and I'm used to walking cross country through the deserts. So she would have not willingly chosen to hike off-trail, it's just a lot more painful to walk in shorts through the denser vegetation. I'm attaching the trail and view towards the 5th wheel trailer turnout parking area.

Could she have seen the RV across the road while standing in front of the rock formations you circled? What if she became disoriented and walked the opposite direction of the RV? Where would that trail take her? How far (distance in miles) would she have to walk that way before she would meet back up with the main road? I wonder how far the SAR teams explored down the trails? My fear is that she walked the wrong direction (away from the road) and by the time she realized she was going the wrong way she may have been too heated/exhausted to simply turn around. She may have sought shelter/shade thinking she could rest and then go back. Or she may have climbed a rock to try to see how far it was to the road and fallen in a crevice. She could be somewhat hidden and out of the search radius for those reason. Does that sound plausible at all? It's hard to get an idea for the size of the area/distance of the trails from google maps. Thank you for providing photos from the ground.

MOO.