CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[MsBetsy]

I'm just explaining one of the reasons why sleuths poke around at items like this. We can't know any motivations, we aren't inside anyone's heads. I'm not assuming, just answering the question about why some people are interested in the finances. And some people have posted about it.

I do not know how anyone could know what "financial strain" was for someone else. I tend to keep my financial worries inside my head, but other people talk about theirs quite a bit more. In my own marriage, we have worked out some checks and balances on spending, but I know people personally who are in really difficult financial straits in retirement, and they talk about it and act on it.

The more I think about this case, the more I think the evidence stacks up for an unlikely but possible "death by misadventure in the desert." But I don't know what LE knows (or what family members know). There seems to be some suspicion on RT, right? If those who suspect him want a full picture, they'll look into what's known about finances, that's for sure.

Yes, the motivations for intimate partner crimes are most often jealousy, followed by personal gain, and lastly, love.

If LE really considers him a suspect I have no doubt they are looking into all these things.
We just have no idea what they know.

My point was that the purchase of an expensive RV is not enough evidence to lead me to believe their was financial motivation, especially at their age. Imo

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Well, if Robert's account of events to his nephew's family are accurate the time may make sense.

If he really looked around for her and went to the cave, and then finally called LE around noon because it was getting hot, then it fits that they would have arrived around 10:00, and walked for about an hour until the time she disappeared, or was last seen. (when he took the picture)

So that would have been around 11:00, and if he searched for her until noon before he called LE that explains the time frame.

What would not make sense is why he didn't actually call until about 1:30.
That leaves about 2 1/2 hours between the time that he last saw her and the time he called LE.

A lot could have happened during that time frame. Imo

In the intro thread there is a link to / image of the LE dispatch records that day that the 911 call from RT came in at 3:26 pm, thanks to one of the sleuthers here.

If they were seen leaving home at 8:15 am by their next door neighbors as has been stated by the VI, that is actually a 7 + hour timeframe between when BT was 'last seen' and RT called police some time after he said she disappeared at that location.

Also, if it took LE 2 + hours to get there, that's actually 9 + hours between when BT was last seen and LE arrived on the scene. IMO

ETA: The confusion on this thread about the time of day when BT went missing and LE was notified appears to be due to some discrepancy between what is stated above and what RT told BT's family when he called them ("it was around noon"), according to the VI family member dbdb11. It could be confusion on RT's part about the time from the outset that has caused the confusion to reverberate, IMO.

 

[Cherwell]

Where is the info coming from, that there were other cars at that location? I missed that.

I think it is a simple misunderstanding. There were no other cars where the RV was parked, but some parked cars were visible from the top of the hill where the 360 photo was taken.
The most likely place, going by the map, seems to be the area at the top of the Granite Hills/Pass. That would be a couple of miles away.

This is possibly where the cars were seen
Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center

 

[artsy1]

Well, if Robert's account of events to his nephew's family are accurate the time may make sense.

If he really looked around for her and went to the cave, and then finally called LE around noon because it was getting hot, then it fits that they would have arrived around 10:00, and walked for about an hour until the time she disappeared, or was last seen. (when he took the picture)

So that would have been around 11:00, and if he searched for her until noon before he called LE that explains the time frame.

What would not make sense is why he didn't actually call until about 1:30.
That leaves about 2 1/2 hours between the time that he last saw her and the time he called LE.

A lot could have happened during that time frame. Imo

The dispatch would have been made at the time of the 911 call, which would have been around 3:30.

 

[K9Enzo]

You’re certainly painting the picture of a highly dysfunctional relationship based on RT saying he asked his wife to wait while he took a photo (which is the safe thing to do in the desert). She might have been prone to wandering ahead. Whether or not it would be worth a fatal beating is quite speculative as you say, and also whether it is a red flag.

I’m often asked to wait a minute while my partner takes a photo (or twenty) as he’s just letting me know he’s stopping as otherwise I wouldn’t notice if I’m ahead on the trail.

Agree. IMO, it was such a basic statement to make.

I have said the following - hey, wait while I stop to mess with my shoe - my trekking pole - adjust my pack straps - take a pic - stop for a long drink - step off the trail to use the bathroom - catch my breath, etc.

 

[MsBetsy]

On the first page of each thread there is a link to / image of the LE dispatch records that day that the 911 call from RT came in at 3:26 pm, thanks to one of the sleuthers here.

If they were seen leaving home at 8:15 am by their next door neighbors as has been stated by the VI, that is actually a 7 + hour timeframe between when BT was 'last seen' and RT called police some time after he said she disappeared at that location.

Also, if it took LE 2 + hours to get there, that's actually 9 + hours between when BT was last seen and LE arrived on the scene. IMO

Oh, I thought they arrived at 3:26.
Well then, if he claimed he called at noon then yes, that leaves about 4 1/2 hours between the time she went missing and the time he actually called, according to what he told his family. So do we know exactly what time they got there? Imo

 

[LietKynes]

Thank you so much. Okay - well, definitely possible. Did he see anyone else while on the trail? Did anyone come to his aid or return to those cars while he awaited police? Or were they gone when he got back (leading to his abduction idea)?

Snipped for brevity
Bolding mine

Ita.

This post is directed solely at R.T.:
One would surmise that if you noticed or had any interaction whatsoever with anyone-- you'd have reported it to LE by now !
And you'd certainly have given LE a general idea of what vehicles --- so LE could be on the lookout for a car/suv/truck that had taken Barbara !!!

Afaik; RT hasn't mentioned anyone he flagged down , nor any individual to whom he may have given a description , of which vehicle she might have been abducted with !
Since, after all --RT thinks she was kidnapped.

If he spoke to anyone or saw a vehicle suddenly driving away-- he should have shared this with LE by now.

None of this is making sense.

 

[LietKynes]

In the intro thread there is a link to / image of the LE dispatch records that day that the 911 call from RT came in at 3:26 pm, thanks to one of the sleuthers here.

If they were seen leaving home at 8:15 am by their next door neighbors as has been stated by the VI, that is actually a 7 + hour timeframe between when BT was 'last seen' and RT called police some time after he said she disappeared at that location.

Also, if it took LE 2 + hours to get there, that's actually 9 + hours between when BT was last seen and LE arrived on the scene. IMO

ETA: The confusion on this thread about the time of day when BT went missing and LE was notified appears to be due to some discrepancy between what is stated above and what RT told BT's family when he called them ("it was around noon"), according to the VI family member dbdb11. It could be confusion on RT's part about the time from the outset that has caused the confusion to reverberate, IMO.

^^^Thanks for this timeline, Twistinginthewind.

That's a significant amount of time.
I still want to know if they drove anywhere else.

If she was anywhere near the location RT called from, she should have been found by now.
But what if they drove someplace farther and she was actually missing from THAT location ?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Oh, I thought they arrived at 3:26.
Well then, if he claimed he called at noon then yes, that leaves about 4 1/2 hours between the time she went missing and the time he actually called, according to what he told his family. So do we know exactly what time they got there? Imo

No, there haven't been any statements from RT or LE on when they arrived. It's about a 2 hour drive from their house to the location she disappeared. If they left at 8:15 am, they could have been there as early as 10:15 am. IMO

ETA: RT made the 911 call at 3:26 pm, and told LE he had been looking for BT for about an hour, which is why MSM reports that she disappeared around 2:30 pm.

RT said it took LE 2 - 2.5 hours to arrive after his 911 call, so LE would have arrived at the approximate location RT said BT disappeared between 5:30 and 6:00 pm.

 

[artsy1]

Oh, I thought they arrived at 3:26.
Well then, if he claimed he called at noon then yes, that leaves about 4 1/2 hours between the time she went missing and the time he actually called, according to what he told his family. So do we know exactly what time they got there? Imo

Msm reports say the press release from LE claim she went missing about 2:30 pm.

ETA. The dispatch log would have shown when they were dispatched to the location, not arrival.

 

[10ofRods]

You’re certainly painting the picture of a highly dysfunctional relationship based on RT saying he asked his wife to wait while he took a photo (which is the safe thing to do in the desert). She might have been prone to wandering ahead. Whether or not it would be worth a fatal beating is quite speculative as you say, and also whether it is a red flag.

I’m often asked to wait a minute while my partner takes a photo (or twenty) as he’s just letting me know he’s stopping as otherwise I wouldn’t notice if I’m ahead on the trail.

Also, well, there'd be a body to drag and dispose of. I guess he co

I wonder why accuweather got it so wrong, and why it was so hot 30 miles east. Ah well, the mysteries of nature. Isn't the weather nice today? It's overcast. I was hoping for a monsoon storm, but didn't get it. It hit 119 last week here outside Needles. LOL, I shouldn't complain since it's hit over 120 before.

Accuweather may be going from a regular town (lately wunderground.com has been completely off for my little area).

Needles is lower than Kelso (and I don't know the exact elevation at their coordinates - but...it would have been a few degrees cooler, I'm thinking, than down at Needles).

I was checking at the NOAA site (as directed to by the Kelso Depot Visitor Center) here:

National Weather Service

It says it's using a location called MidHills or something like that - but I didn't read the small print. It's definitely too high in elevation to be accurate for Kelso Depot. Ox Ranch data is still a little too high (but if compared to Essex, the temp would be about half way in between). Here's the link:

OX Ranch California

Ox Ranch says it was 95 degrees that day, Needles was 114, so it was probably around 105 that day (which is what I recall a SAR team member tweeting - I follow a bunch of them, can't now find which one it was). That tweet was from Saturday, though (personal reasons for remembering that). But anyway, Mojave Preserve is (to me) really humane temperature compared to Bullhead/Needles, usually about 10 degrees cooler and even cooler than that at the campground areas. Still hot, though (95 is hot)

Temps in all these places remained at their maximum from around 2 pm to 6 pm...

(Yes, I'm a bit obsessed with weather, many reasons - and with maps, I think that's genetic).

 

[Twistinginthewind]

^^^Thanks for this timeline, Twistinginthewind.

That's a significant amount of time.
I still want to know if they drove anywhere else.

If she was anywhere near the location RT called from, she should have been found by now.
But what if they drove someplace farther and she was actually missing from THAT location ?

ITA, 7 hours is ample time within which to make a 2 hour drive and take a 2.2 mile walk, for RT to look around for BT when she disappeared, and to do other things and go other places, IMO. No info whatsoever on anywhere else they might have been from RT or LE.

 

[Nerissa]

It was posted that if she did not take a certain turn in the trail & went straight instead she would hit Kelbaker Street - how far a walk would that be? How far would it be from the street back to RV? (assuming she could take that street back to the RV?)

This is just about one of the only scenarios I see wherein she may have been abducted. Walking back along the street to the RV.

Has RT said why BT did not wait for him as he requested - ?

Was she feeling tired, overheated? Not feeling well?

Did they quarrel - ?

Or is this her personality - does her thing, she didn't want to stop & stand around in the heat so she just kept on going....?

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

No, there haven't been any statements from RT or LE on when they arrived. It's about a 2 hour drive from their house to the location she disappeared. If they left at 8:15 am, they could have been there as early as 10:15 am. IMO

ETA: RT made the 911 call at 3:26 pm, and told LE he had been looking for BT for about an hour, which is why MSM reports that she disappeared around 2:30 pm.

RT said it took LE 2 - 2.5 hours to arrive after his 911 call, so LE would have arrived at the approximate location RT said BT disappeared between 5:30 and 6:00 pm.

Right, but he apparently told his family that he called around noon, since it was getting hot by that time.

So it's the discrepancy between what was reported in the media and what he told his family that I think is significant.
Why tell them that he called more than three hours earlier?

 

[Micheline]

Snipped to answer to first alinea

If he really looked around for her and went to the cave, and then finally called LE around noon because it was getting hot, then it fits that they would have arrived around 10:00, and walked for about an hour until the time she disappeared, or was last seen. (when he took the picture)

So that would have been around 11:00, and if he searched for her until noon before he called LE that explains the time frame.

What would not make sense is why he didn't actually call until about 1:30.
That leaves about 2 1/2 hours between the time that he last saw her and the time he called 911.

A lot could have happened during that time frame. Imo

I cannot imagine she would still be carrying a beer after an hour.

Therefor I think their walk was way shorter.

 

[MsBetsy]

Msm reports say the press release from LE claim she went missing about 2:30 pm.

ETA. The dispatch log would have shown when they were dispatched to the location, not arrival.

Ok, so the difference between what the media reported and the time he indicated he had last seen her to her family is about 3 1/2 to 4 hours in time. Imo

 

[dbdb11]

You’re certainly painting the picture of a highly dysfunctional relationship based on RT saying he asked his wife to wait while he took a photo (which is the safe thing to do in the desert). She might have been prone to wandering ahead. Whether or not it would be worth a fatal beating is quite speculative as you say, and also whether it is a red flag.

I’m often asked to wait a minute while my partner takes a photo (or twenty) as he’s just letting me know he’s stopping as otherwise I wouldn’t notice if I’m ahead on the trail.

Does not mean the relationship was dysfunctional. My father was a 'functional' alcoholic before he finally quit drinking. But that does not mean he was not an alcoholic. We can find ways of incorporating major personal problems into our lives, and making the rest seem normal, socially. Sometimes no one notices the elephant in the room, but more often no one chooses to address it.

Picking up on certain aspects of these events as troubling is not reading too far between the lines, IMO.

 

[artsy1]

Right, but he apparently told his family that he called around noon, since it was getting hot by that time.

So it's the discrepancy between what was reported in the media and what he told his family that I think is significant.
Why tell them that he called more than three hours earlier?

Maybe he didn't realize there were public dispatch logs that would dispute his claims.

 

[artsy1]

Ok, so the difference between what the media reported and the time he indicated he had last seen her to her family is about 3 1/2 to 4 hours in time. Imo

Correct.

ETA. And if the press release said 2:30 last sighting, the would have based that on Rat's claims he looked for her an hour before calling 911.

 

[MsBetsy]

Snipped to answer to first alinea


I cannot imagine she would still be carrying a beer after an hour.

Therefor I think their walk was way shorter.

Well, the bottle may have been empty but she still would have been carrying it until she returned, I would think.
It wouldn't matter whether she walked 30 minutes or an hour.
Robert may not have known whether it was half gone, empty, or full. Imo