CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[PaulaDC]

Did Barbara drop the dog off with a car or an RV? If it was a car most likely she would return home? Just because she told the kennel staff they were going on a trip doesn't mean that she got any further than her home again. I hope that LE wasn't led on a wild goose chase when searching closer to her home might possibly hold a clue.

 

[dbdb11]

Two 'old school' journalists who cover police/crime in the area:

1) Joe Nelson covers San Bernardino for 'The Sun.' jnelson@scng.com; Twitter: @GumShoeJoe
2) Richard Winton at 'The LA Times': richard.winton@latimes.com; Twitter: @lacrimes

bump

 

[rosesfromangels]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Has someone been named a POI and I missed it? Thread is moving fast.
TIA

 

[10ofRods]

Been following this in a cursory capacity, but does anyone know the actual location the truck/rv were parked in?

Seems like the general consensus is that RT is considered victim. If so, an argument with BT/RT while hiking could have ended with BT walking off up the road to 'cool off'' (metaphorically, of course) while RT presumed she went back to the camper. It is never stated that she said she was going to the camper. That opens up the search radius to a much larger area.

Intersection of Kelbaker Road and Hidden Hill Road, here are the coordinates from google:

34°47'36.6"N 115°36'35.0"W

The search radius was at least a mile in every direction (from some of the photos, it appears larger than that, but we don't know).

If she was stalking off along the road, she would have had to go about a mile in any direction to get to another trail, and of course, would be quite visible on the road. Someone would have seen an elderly woman in a bikini, I'd think. According to WS user @sroads, cars go by every few minutes. If she had gone north, she would have come across the Desert Studies Center, within about a mile. If she had gone south, she would have eventually gotten back to I-40. Unless she wandered back off the highway into area without a trail, bare-legged, she would be seen.

So, depending on how far Barb could get without shade or water (2 miles? 3 miles? 4? 5?) the search area grows exponentially. In that case, being so angry and having no one know her plans, would easily result in death from misadventure if she stepped off the highway and wandered off in a different section of the Mojave.

If RT failed to tell LE that his wife was angry when she left, that's a major omission. We don't know what was stated, but according to RT, she did indeed say she was headed back to the camper (which was a mere quarter mile away). They were both on their way back, she didn't want to wait while he took his pictures, she went on toward the camera (he sees her go in that direction). Be pretty odd for her to just take off down the road, IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Did Barbara drop the dog off with a car or an RV? If it was a car most likely she would return home? Just because she told the kennel staff they were going on a trip doesn't mean that she got any further than her home again. I hope that LE wasn't led on a wild goose chase when searching closer to her home might possibly hold a clue.

VI says that the neighbor has their departure on CCTV recording and both get into the truck.

 

[Jade]

I think this issue of remoteness is all relative. Most urban and suburban folks could not fathom how empty some roads are. I live very near a bit of state highway that is so empty one could quite safely pull over and leave a vehicle not just unlocked but engine running while off on a multi-hour hike, and the chances of it being noticed, not to mention tampered with, are almost zero.

I would guess that my stretch of highway gets a car every few minutes during most times of the day, and maybe a few cars per hour, or less, at night. And would clearly, as a State Highway, be described as "the main route between X and Y". So comparable in at least a few ways.

Not saying their spot was this safe; in truth probably not, since my area is rather extreme. But again, it's relative. We just don't know, other than folks who are familiar with the actual stretch of road in question.

Unless there is similar population densities and tourist/day trip/short cut activity [LA>Vegas, Vegas>PS] there is really no comparison to Kelbaker Rd.

San Bernardino County has 2.16 million people

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/san-bernardino-county-ca/

In my experience, unless in true back country, you are never quite as alone as you think you are in CA.


IMO

 

[slowpoke]

Interesting "CLOTHING" description:

bbm

Barbara Thomas


"Black bra and underwear"? Why not "Black bikini and underwear"?

Is that why we aren't seeing a photograph(s) from that day?

Is that why RT emphasized "bikini" and "beer" in his abduction scenario?

ETA:
Also, "white hat" ......... not "red cap".
HAIR: "Blonde"? .........not so much, unless "grey" is only her head hair.

The only thing I could think of is that missing person information is added to the database immediately at the time the report is received by LE, why else would there be such discrepancies... unless the reporting party relayed the exact information we're reading?

Why not update it?

I find this very curious! Good find, ChuckMaureen. I hadn’t seen this before.

“Black bra and underwear, black tall socks, tan hiking boots, and a white hat”

Barbara would not be going out for a walk or hike solely in undergarments (a bra and underwear), I feel confident in assuming that. And yet, RT has always used the word “bikini” for clothing description. A bikini is not considered underwear, and a rational woman doesn’t walk around in public in underwear.

What could this mean?

As if things weren’t puzzling enough. A real head-scratcher.

 

[al66pine]

Keyless Entry? Key-Under-Rock?

My Ford mechanic friend told me that almost every customer he knows uses a birthday as their code. He resets codes for his clients and they usually pick a birthday---a child's or a spouses, or an anniversary. lol

@katydid23 Thanks for your post, to launch a line of thought re Keyless v. Key-Under-Rock question.
True, in choosing our own passcode/PINs, we can always opt for an 'unforgettable' code like a birthday. But some ppl lack faith in electronics to regularly, habitually, invariably, consistently, unfailingly, inevitably, always work. Esp in extreme weather, e.g., desert heat, artic cold, rain.

Some of us (looking in the mirror) prefer to rely on the good old lock & key, in all probability faaaaaaaar less reliable, e.g., water/sand from rain/wind causes malfunction, or key wears down, preventing ppl from getting in and/or starting ignition. A different mindset.

Posters flat out denying/ignoring Key-Under-Rock possibility may be overlooking part of solution to BT's disappearance. Or not, idk, jmo.

Quick, somebody call 911 for an ambulance - this horse has suffered a beating, needs transport to hospital.

 

[campbellsouup]

Did some research into the mineshaft option as well, there don't appear to be any mineshafts within the 1 mile radius (2 mile round trip hike). The 'rock formation' to the west would have to be the one they were heading to, I have placed a diamond around it. I don't think mineshaft is viable.

Surely somewhere along the road on either end should have security cameras that would be able to corroborate the timeline.

Has it been confirmed anywhere if the hike was 2 miles each way or round trip? If they hiked out more than a mile they would have been in the Sweeney Granite Mountains

 

[LietKynes]

Only according to himself. LE has not said anything yet.



VI says that the neighbor has their departure on CCTV recording and both get into the truck.

Thanks for clarifying, @10ofRods .

Sometime after Barbara's disappearance, LE said there was "...no evidence.." that Barbara was at the desert hiking location.

This simply means they found nothing -- no dropped drink container, no hat or boot lost (discarded in the kidnapping struggle ?), no scent of her on the trail, nothing.
We know she was in the vehicle pulling the fifth wheel and that is all.
LE have to be frustrated.

Afaik, RT still hasn't divulged where else they may have stopped at.

It'd help to have at least one sighting of Barbara at another location after the dog kennel and their departure from home.

 

[LietKynes]

Did some research into the mineshaft option as well, there don't appear to be any mineshafts within the 1 mile radius (2 mile round trip hike). The 'rock formation' to the east would have to be the one they were heading to, I have placed a diamond around it. I don't think mineshaft is viable.

Surely somewhere along the road on either end should have security cameras that would be able to corroborate the timeline.

Has it been confirmed anywhere if the hike was 2 miles each way or round trip? If they hiked out more than a mile they would have been in the Sweeney Granite Mountains

SABBM

Good observation.
Even if the security cams only showed RT, it would help to place at least him there.

Welcome to Websleuths, @campbellsouup !!

 

[cazador]

Ita.
So much has been said that was unnecessary and irrelevant. Why ?
Nothing has been said that will help find her.
Where are RT's pleas to the kidnapper ?
As far as what RT is doing with his time, take a look at the msm thread or read the previous thread -- another member here at WS can look this up if they're so inclined.

At this moment he has not made a public plea to Barbara or for her captors to treat her kindly or even for a ransom (if she is still living).
If his lawyer has advised him not to do this-- he needs to hire someone else.


SABBM
Agreed.
Esp. your hypothesis.

If the FBI has this case..
Silence is normal.

That is the only logical reason for total silence I can think of..
jmho

 

[distracted]

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The most dangerous time in a relationship for a woman is when she is either pregnant or trying to leave. I think we can assume BT was not the former<modsnip>.

 

[kay74]

If the FBI has this case..
Silence is normal.

That is the only logical reason for total silence I can think of..
jmho

Somehow I can't see the FBI traipsing through the desert because that will have to be done! FBI never found 13 year old Jamie Closs. She had to help herself.

 

[kay74]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

The most dangerous time in a relationship for a woman is when she is either pregnant or trying to leave. I think we can assume BT was not the former<modsnip>.

Yes she could have got angry with him and said she was done. He could have hit her and hidden her body. I don't believe this happened and I HOPE it did not. What gets me, is putting the key under the rock. THAT tells me they were going to go in different directions out there! Anybody else think that?!

 

[Kapua]

Yes she could have got angry with him and said she was done. He could have hit her and hidden her body. I don't believe this happened and I HOPE it did not. What gets me, is putting the key under the rock. THAT tells me they were going to go in different directions out there! Anybody else think that?!

(raises hand)

That's very peculiar, IMHO.

 

[firstsleuth]

DBM irrelevant

 

[LAhiker]

I find this very curious! Good find, ChuckMaureen. I hadn’t seen this before.

“Black bra and underwear, black tall socks, tan hiking boots, and a white hat”

Barbara would not be going out for a walk or hike solely in undergarments (a bra and underwear), I feel confident in assuming that. And yet, RT has always used the word “bikini” for clothing description. A bikini is not considered underwear, and a rational woman doesn’t walk around in public in underwear.

What could this mean?

As if things weren’t puzzling enough. A real head-scratcher.

If you look closely at the photo of BT that the sheriff's department posted to show what BT was said to be wearing, one can see that the black bikini top might also be a bra. I think that some of women's swimsuits and undergarments have become more similar to each other than in the past, so I don't think it's wise to draw strong conclusions based on the small differences between a bikini and a bra or set of bikini briefs.

As for what a "rational woman" wears in public, note that the area was fairly remote, so even if she was wearing undergarments, BT may not have regarded herself as being in public. Clothing choices can be situational -- for instance, sometimes a woman will wear underwear for an impromptu swim. An older woman might be less likely to regard such choices as important to others or herself. I would not claim that a person was irrational based on such a thing.

It could also be that RT's description of her clothing was unintentionally or intentionally incorrect. JMO

 

[kkdj]

Yes she could have got angry with him and said she was done. He could have hit her and hidden her body. I don't believe this happened and I HOPE it did not. What gets me, is putting the key under the rock. THAT tells me they were going to go in different directions out there! Anybody else think that?!

If so, then why tell the story he did? it would make more sense if they went in different directions because of different interests and she just never found her way back.

 

[distracted]

Yes she could have got angry with him and said she was done. He could have hit her and hidden her body. I don't believe this happened and I HOPE it did not. What gets me, is putting the key under the rock. THAT tells me they were going to go in different directions out there! Anybody else think that?!

So maybe there's one key. Maybe in the past one might want to return or needs a bathroom so this has become their habit.

IMO, there would be two keys for a new rig but old habits die hard.

That said, I'm going to repeat myself now - people who are deceitful usually include bits of the truth. The problem with this story is that it reads like a novel.