CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[Cherwell]

It's also possible LE found that key, under a rock and why is your RV key under a rock dear man?
I can think of more than one reason like they were expecting company or HE was expecting company. Maybe BT did go missing right out of the camper if there was a key right outside, she wasnt safe, did she know the key was under a rock? Did anybody establish whether hiding the key was normal behaviour for them?

That doesn't make any sense to me. He called the police himself, he had more than enough time to retrieve a key if he didn't want it found.

 

[crussell821]

1) BT wandered off course, farther than anyone would expect and happened across an animal, mine shaft, cave or some feature from which she was unable to escape or BT succumbed to natural cause at a distance.

2) BT was abducted along the path between the rock formation(s) and the turnout.

3) BT disappeared and is remaining out of sight/quiet on purpose.

4) RT. Enough said for this item.

For which do you vote?

It is likely LE has been attempting to dig up every possible detail regarding time line, location and potential motive(s) but... silence silence silence.

#1 for me as of now. I’m remaining victim friendly until I have evidence otherwise, right now I don’t believe the evidence shows foul play.

 

[k-mac]

As for the code- it only opens the truck, it doesn't start it. You would never sit in the cab of a truck in the desert because it would be perhaps 150F+ inside. You would want the keys to the truck so you could start the air in the cab and get into the camper.

snipped for focus
i think the point is to leave the key to the RV in the cab of the truck. use the code to get the RV key out.
boom. 100% secure. 100% accessable to them both.
experienced hikers/campers like them don't buy gear with all the bells and whistles not to use them.
especially cool simple safety stuff like that.

key under the rock.....it is an unnecessary element and frankly not that believable similar to the beer in her hand (although disguised in a travel mug....)

moo

 

[Onebest]

Exactly. This is why attorneys do not want their clients to talk. It makes defending their clients more difficult.

IMO, this is why RT is not talking.

ETA: I should clarify: IMO, RT's attorney told him not to talk to the media because it's not in his best interest, not necessarily because his attorney thinks he's guilty.

BUT is it in his beloved wife's best interest? Why couldn't said attorney assist in helping his client to address the media, address potential abductors, encourage the public to BOLO for this lovely woman?

 

[Cherwell]

As for the code- it only opens the truck, it doesn't start it. You would never sit in the cab of a truck in the desert because it would be perhaps 150F+ inside. You would want the keys to the truck so you could start the air in the cab and get into the camper.

i think the point is to leave the key to the RV in the cab of the truck. use the code to get the RV key out.
boom. 100% secure. 100% accessable to them both.
experienced hikers/campers like them don't buy gear with all the bells and whistles not to use them.
especially cool simple safety stuff like that.
key under the rock.....it is an unnecessary element and frankly not that believable similar to the beer in her hand (although disguised in a travel mug....)

OK - so why wouldn't he say that they left the key in the truck and she knew the code?
Nobody can prove otherwise, so I still don't see why he would invent the hidden key story.

 

[Cherwell]

I must admit to being a bit of a technophobe*, and I wouldn't fancy leaving the only key inside something that can only be accessed by an electronic code. Especially in roasting hot desert conditions. I'd worry that something would go wrong and it would stop working.

(*In my defence, I've had trouble with the locks on several cars I've had.)

 

[k-mac]

Of course, but the point is - if you are going to lie, why not invent a more convincing story?

but whos to know whats a good story?
tying everything together is all that matters.
the truth doesn't need tying together.... it flows. ….freely..... like a domino effect. ...one piece slots together with the next in a jigsaw.

so Cherwell by saying why not invent a more 'convincing' story you believe him because it isn't very believable??

moo

 

[Cherwell]

but whos to know whats a good story?
tying everything together is all that matters.
the truth doesn't need tying together.... it flows. ….freely..... like a domino effect. ...one piece slots together with the next in a jigsaw.

so Cherwell by saying why not invent a more 'convincing' story you believe him because it isn't very believable??

I think it gives credence to his account, yes.
Micheline offered some scenarios he could have given instead.

But why would he invent this whole story?
He could have said that she was looking at rocks, he got a little tired, went ahead waited there for her, and she never made it to the RV.
He could have said they had seen some pieces of wood near the road that she went to pick up while he was making pictures, but then did not make it back to him.
It was not necessary (if you go by a made up scenario) to claim she was on her way to the RV, just minutes apart, made a corner, keys under a stone, etc. etc.

 

[Jenz]

I think it gives credence to his account, yes.
Micheline offered some scenarios he could have given instead.

Depends I guess, on their intelligent level....maybe?

 

[k-mac]

I think it gives credence to his account, yes.
Micheline offered some scenarios he could have given instead.

under the circumstances no matter what story or account he brought to the table is going to be heavily scrutinized.
that's just part and parcel of the situation.

I stated in previous post the truth flows.....the puzzles pieces appear and they fit together.

the lack of evidence to support his 'story' isn't helping his credibility.

moo

 

[Curiousobserver]

snipped for focus
i think the point is to leave the key to the RV in the cab of the truck. use the code to get the RV key out.
boom. 100% secure. 100% accessable to them both.
experienced hikers/campers like them don't buy gear with all the bells and whistles not to use them.
especially cool simple safety stuff like that.

key under the rock.....it is an unnecessary element and frankly not that believable similar to the beer in her hand (although disguised in a travel mug....)

moo

I would never trust the code to get my key out, especially if that meant I might die if it failed.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

OK - so why wouldn't he say that they left the key in the truck and she knew the code?
Nobody can prove otherwise, so I still don't see why he would invent the hidden key story.

I must admit to being a bit of a technophobe*, and I wouldn't fancy leaving the only key inside something that can only be accessed by an electronic code. Especially in roasting hot desert conditions. I'd worry that something would go wrong and it would stop working.

(*In my defence, I've had trouble with the locks on several cars I've had.)

I'm a technophobe too, at least in terms of not being too dependent on stuff to work when it could be a life/death/safety situation. To me, an electronic keypad is great concept security-wise but I would carry (or hide, or both) a physical key as well, somewhere that didn't need the electronic bit to work to access it. I've mentioned before that my two vehicles, while newish, both have only regular key, no electronic fob; I prefer it that way.

Anyway, my thought here is that the "hiding a key near the vehicle" may be a long-standing habit with them from before the acquisition of the new vehicles, and they might have continued it just because it felt secure to them -- or, more relevantly, he might have described it because it was his/their long-standing habit, regardless of what was actually done that day. He might have done this strategically/intentionally, or it could have been a goof that wasn't what he intended, or didn't realize how it would affect his story.

 

[Jade]

That road isn't a highway turnout. It's far off the beaten track.

Kelbaker Rd is a well beaten track:


Kelbaker Road is a paved road in San Bernardino County, California, that serves as the primary and busiest route through the Mojave National Preserve


Kelbaker Road - Wikipedia


Kelbaker Road is one of the well-traveled back roads in the Mojave Desert connecting two major Eastern California routes of Interstate system. The I-40 to the south and the I-15 to the north, spanning 50 miles from one to the other.

Kelbaker Road – Total Escape


The turnout they were parked on is big enough for several rigs to situate comfortably and appears well used.

The Thomas were on a short and safe [albeit hot] walk on a wide clear path from & to their camper parked on a well traveled scenic route and day trip road.


Of course the Mojave National Preserve overall is devoid of amenities and habitation making it remote in regards to services.


all imo

 

[Skigh]

OK - so why wouldn't he say that they left the key in the truck and she knew the code?
Nobody can prove otherwise, so I still don't see why he would invent the hidden key story.

If you use a code is the time it was last used stored on the vehicle's computer system?

 

[LietKynes]

I agree cherwell
unnecessary
irrelevant.
but to a lot here including me 'unnecessary' is a hit on the hinky metre that unfortunately has a ever increasing load.

moo

Ita.
So much has been said that was unnecessary and irrelevant. Why ?
Nothing has been said that will help find her.
Where are RT's pleas to the kidnapper ?
As far as what RT is doing with his time, take a look at the msm thread or read the previous thread -- another member here at WS can look this up if they're so inclined.

At this moment he has not made a public plea to Barbara or for her captors to treat her kindly or even for a ransom (if she is still living).
If his lawyer has advised him not to do this-- he needs to hire someone else.

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Kelbaker Rd is a well beaten track:


Kelbaker Road is a paved road in San Bernardino County, California, that serves as the primary and busiest route through the Mojave National Preserve


Kelbaker Road - Wikipedia


Kelbaker Road is one of the well-traveled back roads in the Mojave Desert connecting two major Eastern California routes of Interstate system. The I-40 to the south and the I-15 to the north, spanning 50 miles from one to the other.

Kelbaker Road – Total Escape


The turnout they were parked on is big enough for several rigs to situate comfortably and appears well used.

The Thomas were on a short and safe [albeit hot] walk on a wide clear path from & to their camper parked on a well traveled scenic route and day trip road.


Of course the Mojave National Preserve overall is devoid of amenities and habitation making it remote in regards to services.


all imo

I think this issue of remoteness is all relative. Most urban and suburban folks could not fathom how empty some roads are. I live very near a bit of state highway that is so empty one could quite safely pull over and leave a vehicle not just unlocked but engine running while off on a multi-hour hike, and the chances of it being noticed, not to mention tampered with, are almost zero.

I would guess that my stretch of highway gets a car every few minutes during most times of the day, and maybe a few cars per hour, or less, at night. And would clearly, as a State Highway, be described as "the main route between X and Y". So comparable in at least a few ways.

Not saying their spot was this safe; in truth probably not, since my area is rather extreme. But again, it's relative. We just don't know, other than folks who are familiar with the actual stretch of road in question.

 

[LietKynes]

Sorry if asked and answered. Do we even know she was there? Witnesses?

At this time, the last sighting of Barbara was on the neighbor's security cams and at the kennel where she dropped off her dog.
She could have disappeared anytime after that.
We just don't know.

 

[campbellsouup]

Been following this in a cursory capacity, but does anyone know the actual location the truck/rv were parked in?

Seems like the general consensus is that RT is considered victim. If so, an argument with BT/RT while hiking could have ended with BT walking off up the road to 'cool off'' (metaphorically, of course) while RT presumed she went back to the camper. It is never stated that she said she was going to the camper. That opens up the search radius to a much larger area.

 

[MsBetsy]

Just checking in to see if there is anything new, which there doesn't seem to be.
I keep noticing how active the thread is still and keep skimming for new information and the only thing I've noticed is the description of clothing is different from what we have always thought.
I wonder how we missed that. Wearing a bra and underwear is different from a bikini. I don't know if it's significant or not.

However I'm surprised we don't have any evidence yet as to whether or not a crime has taken place.
Usually in a missing persons case, if there is any indication of foul play or LE are looking at someone as a POI we would have heard something.

Yet we have heard nothing about any warrants to cell phone companies, computer data, the RV, the home, or anything at all. I thought that information was pretty easy to find.
The police have not asked the public for information, they have not encouraged people to call in tips, they haven't given any updates for a long time.

I wonder if they will ever reveal whether or not this has become a criminal investigation or if we will still be here speculating whether or not her husband had something to do with it six months from now. Imo

 

[dbdb11]

Those are mine, too, although I have also added Mountain Lion. The reason I added Mountain Lion is that there is an uptick in the Mountain Lion population. I had pooh-poohed the idea initially, due to water issues, but did some research and found that there is a source of water south of where the Thomases stopped. Mountain lions have a walking pace of 10 mph and attack at speeds of up to 60 mph. The rabbit population in the desert is up, due to all that extra foliage, and there were plenty of rabbits in that area, IMO.

It would be odd, though, for a lion to drag prey miles before stashing it. SAR searched such nearby stash places (and I think the sniffer dogs were there). However, if lion was feeding offspring at a distance, could have gone outside search area.

Still really improbable, but within the realm of possibility. Mountain lion fatalities in California occur every 10 years or so, but they do occur. Also, many older people have been victims, nation-wide, and a variable is the size of the victim. I think Barb looks as if she weighed around 120 lbs, not 130 as stated on her DL. I base this on the one fairly recent family photo. At any rate, 130 pounds is within a mountain lion's capacity to take. Lions often hide in sandstone outcroppings, similar to the one shown being searched in the twitter photos.

Since the more extensive search of the sandstone didn't take place until at least the next day, Lion would have cover of darkness to sneak off. HOWEVER, if they had a cadaver dog out there (surely they would have?) So...both "lost in the desert" and "mountain lion" are not such great theories.

But, a mountain lion would have put Barbara further out of the search radius than if she were on her own power, IMO. If LE/SAR suspected this, they knew that the total area to be searched was beyond the technical capacities of humans at that time of year...or any time of year, most likely.

So those are my RT-friendly theories.

The only way we'll know, if Barb was lost, discarded by a hit and run driver on some remote road, or taken by a mountain lion is when some future desert lover/ATV rider comes across skeletal evidence.

The lack of car debris near the place where Barb crossed is troubling, for the hit-n-run theory.

The "lost in the desert" is, statistically, most probable. I believe RT headed down to the creek bed (in an early report, reporter says "husband walked to a lake to take pictures" (there's obviously no lake - but there is a lake bed-like thing 14 miles north and then, there's the creek bed, which does look a bit like a dry lake and has very different rocks than the rest of the area - more like Mono Lake, which people drive a hundred miles or more out of their way to see...)

So, it's not like RT was just randomly photographing rocks. He never mentions a tripod and he does mention a gallon of water in his pack. Most rock photographers don't use a tripod for a simple shot of rock formations, as rocks don't move. The length of time he says he was there indicates it was probably his hand held camera (presumably, it could have been his phone).

Granite Mountains in the distance - with much less foliage than during the time the Thomases visited:

Granite Mountains (California) - Wikipedia

I'll try and post pictures of the white rock formations later.

The mention of the "dry lake" led many to believe they were at the Kelso Dunes area, but the 911 call says Kelbaker/HH and that's where the search took place.

to add to your lost in desert theory, if she fled rob, and didnt head towards the road, but fled into the desert, in desperation...