Found Deceased CA - Blaze Bernstein, 19, Lake Forest, 2 Jan 2018 #5 *Arrest*

[Whiteorchids]

I’m guessing SW defense will be that Blaze was the one who came on to SW and he felt scared/attacked and acted in self defense. Then panicked and concealed the body because he was scared. We’ve heard it a million times.

With the weight and size difference that's going to be hard to pull off.

6'2 185 versus 5'8 130.

I took a screen shot of CBS news clip of him walking into the house. The black top of his head is his hair almost to the eaves. He looks closer to 6'4 which is my sons height. He might not have updated his DL and LE took info from that.

 

[Coquette]

Sam seems to have been noticed to have psychological problems for years. Another case of, we all knew it would happen one day. We just didn't know "what."

His mom, a family therapist, will be knowledgeable of the different diagnoses which could possibly lead to leniency in a court case.

Do you think this case will make it to court?? Or plea?

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it goes to court and there is a diminished capacity defense for the very reasons you’ve stated.

 

[neesaki]

Not sure how to bring crimedawg’s post over from the previous thread so here is a copy of SW’s mugshot CD was kind enough to post.

He looks angry and mean. Jmo

 

[mrsu]

Regarding Snapchat, it was mentioned that the parents were able to log in to his account and see his last contact. If you go into Snapchat and click on the messages icon. It brings you to a page where you can see the latest contacts. When you open a contact, the messages are gone. So I believe in the press conference the sheriff said the parents checked his Snapchat and then contacted Sam.

 

[Tortoise]

Regarding Snapchat, it was mentioned that the parents were able to log in to his account and see his last contact. If you go into Snapchat and click on the messages icon. It brings you to a page where you can see the latest contacts. When you open a contact, the messages are gone. So I believe in the press conference the sheriff said the parents checked his Snapchat and then contacted Sam.

I expect this might be the message the parents were able to check because it was unopened -

The friend said Bernstein told him they were going to meet another friend from high school, and they drove to the Borrego Park parking lot shortly before midnight, reports the OC Register. The friend said Bernstein walked by himself into the park. After about an hour, the friend said he tried to contact Bernstein unsuccessfully on SnapChat, then left around 1 a.m. and drove to his girlfriend's house in Tustin.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/details-emerge-about-friends-account-of-blaze-bernsteins-last-moments/

 

[Whiteorchids]

I hope this is ok. Here is a couple of screen grabs from his FB before It was taken down. Sorry it's a little blurry but helps to zoom in.

 

[asfx1001]

To all those calling for the death penalty and/or for federal hate crime charges...

Would this be the first time the killer was a member of the same "protected class" as the victim?

For instance, assuming SW did have a homosexual relationship with at least BB, back in high school, and then he murders BB because of him being gay.

How do they prove the difference between a hate crime and an obsessive crazy psycho ex? I am guessing if he had a manifesto that would make it clear.

Did SW blame BB for SW's own discovery of gay feelings? I guess that could qualify as a hate crime... Either way I'd like someone to explain if a hate crime is even possible when the suspect is of the same class (homosexual) as the victim.

It still seems like a first-time-ever situation if there are hate crime charges. seeing as the FBI is involved that could certainly be possible, or they're likely involved to help with the snapchat component of the investigation.

Being in the closet doesn't mean you lose your consideration in the hate crime statue, does it? Or a gay can kill another gay and its still a hate crime because that gay was homophobic on social media?

I think clearly they need more than just social media to determine its a hate crime, unless its overwhelmingly clear. And again, is it even possible to prosecute someone for a hatecrime against their own "protected class" be it skin color, orientation, gender, religion, etc... note that politics is not a protected class. I'm talking about the allegations that SW was also a homosexual, or at least a "man who has sex with men" according to the verbage used in public health to include those who don't identify as gay (but are none the less engaged in homosexual relationships)

is this going to be the first self-hating M4M hate crime? because i've seen multiple people in this thread talking about hate crimes, death penalty, confederate flags, online comments against gays (which I have not seen yet, bwt)

 

[Gussified]

Sam seems to have been noticed to have psychological problems for years. Another case of, we all knew it would happen one day. We just didn't know "what."

His mom, a family therapist, will be knowledgeable of the different diagnoses which could possibly lead to leniency in a court case.

Do you think this case will make it to court?? Or plea?

Yes, I agree. I don’t know whether it is a personality disorder or what, but his mother/family is certainly aware and have probably struggled for years with how to deal with it. Probably had something to do with his leaving OCSA after sophomore year. MOO

There was a child in my child's middle school class, who was a loner, and dark. She talked about death a lot and creeped out the other kids. I personally reported it to the school, just to make them aware that this child needed help. I heard thru the grapevine later that the family was aware of her issues and were trying to get her the help she needed.

So, yes, I think the family knew he had issues, and classmates are probably not surprised that he finally went over the edge. Again, MOO. And I still do not see it as any excuse for murder.

 

[eucalyptuz]

Could someone please verify something re SW and his online presence:

Are people alleging SW had a handle/username on a forum that begins with an "r" and posts written by him are visible on that forum
OR
Is it just that the same forum that begins with an "r" has a page on BB's murder and screen shots of SW's previously available social media is posted there.

If it is the former, I think the handle/username could be shared much like we've shared the askfm username.
If it is the later, all it of the screenshots posted there have already been posted by various MSM media and otherwise it is just a unmoderated version of the same discussion we've been having here...

 

[asfx1001]

Could someone please verify something re SW and his online presence:

Are people alleging SW had a handle/username on a forum that begins with an "r" and posts written by him are visible on that forum
OR
Is it just that the same forum that begins with an "r" has a page on BB's murder and screen shots of SW's previously available social media is posted there.

I heard talk of the former but have only seen the latter. Yes that is my understanding too.

 

[Niner]

Inmate info: http://ws.ocsd.org/Whoisinjail/Search.aspx

You know I've tried all the ocsd dot org links that people have posted and none of them work for me. Maybe cause I'm in Europe?? Always comes up "Page can't be displayed". Oh well.... Thanks for the link anyway!

 

[FreeRoad]

Can you 'prove' a hate crime using a picture posted by a minor 4 years ago? What are the rules of evidence regarding 'proving' character or motive using published evidence from a minor? Or from heresay by other's posting on social media? Ot from reposted screen shots taken out of context? Can you verify social media posts and the identities of those posting the 'evidence'? Have you considered that anonymous individuals posting on social media, such as those purporting to be family members of LE are maybe not reliable? Because so far that's all we've got. This is the type of information you see utilized in ARGS, it's straight out of games theory. It does a huge disservice, in my opinion, to the memory of Blaze and to his family.

What we do not know

1. The the relationship of the victim and the accused perpetrator
2. The condition of the body
3. The cause of death
4. The timeline of the murder
5. The time of death
6. The motive

As I have said before, I beleive that the politicalization of this death would be the greatest tragedy and disservice to Blaze I can think of, it essentially uses him as a political tool. It is evident that this is the direction we are being led. Do any of you consider that perhaps Blaze's family might find this view in opposition thier own? It is Orange County afterall. Do you consider that with the media attention Internationally to this case that this type of media bias may compromise a conviction? <---huge question.

I would like the to see the truth. I would like to see that our justice system and everything surrounding it upholds the Law that it was crafted to serve. I would like to see Justice served and pray that all the parties involved find Peace.

I think Blaze stood for powerful self expression for all people. I think Blaze was authentic and inspired that in others. I also think Blaze had the amazing gift of seeing the best in everyone. I think he possesed a gift of bringing others together. I hope in his memory he is allowed to stand powerfully for that, because that in itself, is huge.

Gosh, I don't know where to start. I just want to express that the vibe I get sometimes, is that people are offended when someone else's beliefs or lifestyle or opinions are discussed, when those beliefs/lifestyle/opinions were expressed by the person themselves. Or rather, that some folks seem to find certain "qualities" to be insult of some kind, even if the person in question has openly and proudly expressed them in public.

I don't know how clear I'm being, but in this case one of the examples I would use is the offense taken early on in this case, here and elsewhere in public forums, when it was suggested that Blaze was gay. That is not a random suggestion but well illustrated by Blaze's public persona. What is so greatly irritating to me is that folks would interpret the inference that Blaze was gay, as an insult. They are imposing their own values and beliefs even when they are in contradiction to Blaze's or his family's. For example, when folks react that Blaze's memory should be respected and his parents' feelings considered, as if being described as gay is an insult.

This is a valid topic in the sense that this social dynamic is one of the largest factors in creating the kind of conflict, both internal and external, that may have very well been part of the motivation behind this crime. The real shame that results from individuals being told by society that they should be ashamed, has been known to be the cause of terrible human activity in many cases, resulting in both harm to Self and harm to Others.

This is not the courtroom; we are not in actuality "proving" anything here. We are caring citizens who are interested in the individual cases, but also the societal dynamics that create these events in the first place.

Respectfully, JMO/MOO

 

[RainCheck]

Can you 'prove' a hate crime using a picture posted by a minor 4 years ago? What are the rules of evidence regarding 'proving' character or motive using published evidence from a minor? Or from heresay by other's posting on social media? Ot from reposted screen shots taken out of context? Can you verify social media posts and the identities of those posting the 'evidence'? Have you considered that anonymous individuals posting on social media, such as those purporting to be family members of LE are maybe not reliable? Because so far that's all we've got. This is the type of information you see utilized in ARGS, it's straight out of games theory. It does a huge disservice, in my opinion, to the memory of Blaze and to his family.

What we do not know

1. The the relationship of the victim and the accused perpetrator
2. The condition of the body
3. The cause of death
4. The timeline of the murder
5. The time of death
6. The motive

As I have said before, I beleive that the politicalization of this death would be the greatest tragedy and disservice to Blaze I can think of, it essentially uses him as a political tool. It is evident that this is the direction we are being led. Do any of you consider that perhaps Blaze's family might find this view in opposition thier own? It is Orange County afterall. Do you consider that with the media attention Internationally to this case that this type of media bias may compromise a conviction? <---huge question.

I would like the to see the truth. I would like to see that our justice system and everything surrounding it upholds the Law that it was crafted to serve. I would like to see Justice served and pray that all the parties involved find Peace.

I think Blaze stood for powerful self expression for all people. I think Blaze was authentic and inspired that in others. I also think Blaze had the amazing gift of seeing the best in everyone. I think he possesed a gift of bringing others together. I hope in his memory he is allowed to stand powerfully for that, because that in itself, is huge.

It's not my job to prove anything, I'm not the local DA or involved in investigating and prosecuting federal hate crimes. I believe as an individual lay person looking at the circumstances of the crime SW's online presence is similar to Dylann Roof's. SW posted pictures of himself in front of the Confederate flag and made remarks leading people to believe he was violent and angry. I would think Blaze's friends and family would want his killer prosecuted to the full extend of the law including hate crime charges if it is determined he targeted Blaze for being gay and/or Jewish.

 

[Gardenista]

start here, a link from a previous post:

https://heavy.com/news/2018/01/samuel-woodward-blaze-bernstein-suspect-photos-sam/

Now I'm wondering if heavy counts as MSM? I'll flag this myself so Mods can weigh in...

Nothing on that page about sexual orientation

 

[prue]

really? that makes him 19 then.

Imbedded in the heavy article is just one link to an example of SW's own words. It is a place to start, if you have not seen both his attitude/world view/leanings, his sarcastic wit, his way with words, and frankly his intelligence. (Disclaimer: I'm using intelligence in the sense of IQ, not that I agree with his judgement or opinions.)

I get a sense from the writing of both young men that there could have definitely been a shared wit and sense of humor that could have resulted in a depth of understand and some/any kind of intimacy between the two. The debates here (and elsewhere) that defensively protest either perceptions of either young man, or any relationship between them, seem to stem from a somewhat naïve idea of "innocence" or "goodness" that is, to me, somewhat simple-minded and even judgemental.

What I am trying to say here is that I can understand finding common ground with someone based on a meeting of minds. Values, beliefs, ethics may not be in alignment, or may change over time (especially rapidly during young-adulthood), but that doesn't erase that connection or at least the history of one. I personally can easily imagine a deep connection of some kind between these two young men, at least in their pasts, based on the writings of both. Furthermore, knowing what we are learning about SW, we can see a drastic hypocrisy in his words, actions, and public persona. Blaze, on the other hand, left a history of voicing (both publicly and more privately) an integrity regarding acceptance, diversity, and respect for individual expression and freedom. What a loss for our world. :tears::maddening:

JMO/MOO

I agreed implicity with everything you said. I can easily see them being friends exactly because of what you expressed here. Very sad circumstances and a huge loss for all concerned. A tragedy.

 

[asfx1001]

It's not my job to prove anything, I'm not the local DA or involved in investigating and prosecuting federal hate crimes. I believe as an individual lay person looking at the circumstances of the crime SW's online presence is similar to Dylann Roof's. SW posted pictures of himself in front of the Confederate flag and made remarks leading people to believe he was violent and angry. I would think Blaze's friends and family would want his killer prosecuted to the full extend of the law including hate crime charges if it is determined he targeted Blaze for being gay and/or Jewish.

Dylan Roof posed in photos with the south african and rhodesian flags and with guns and talked about killing african americans to his friends, one of which ended up going to prison for being deceptive about it in interviews with the FBI. Roof actually talked about shooting up the university, it is unknown why he decided to target old church ladies instead. Dylan's friends would describe episodes where Dylan would black out, etc. There may be a similar psychological profile but to say its a similar social media footprint is incorrect. I don't see photos of him posting with guns, I don't see him acting like an enemy combatant (Dylan Roof is closer to Tim McVeigh in his ideology, considering himself a prisoner of an enemy state) except for the haircut perhaps, which as I mentioned before could easily be a red herring. Same with his "keep the peace" sweatshirt, which by the way seems to be a non-profit with an incomplete website (it has gibberish, in latin, as if the web developers did not finish the site. but they sell merch like hoodies and mugs.)

Given that the FBI is involved with this case already, which may be due to the cyber (snapchat) element to expedite evidence, that is also a good chance that their reasoning for getting involved is hate crime investigation.

So I'm not saying its your job, I'm not saying its ridiculous, but I am saying that its way more of a stretch than Dylan Roof. If you're going to continue to deny that, I ask you to go look at the photos of Dylan Roof from social media, go read Dylan Roof's manifesto. Until we see something similar from the suspect, I don't think you have that level of political indoctrination here. In fact, I haven't seen a single indication of this being a hate crime other than social media posts that show he identified as conservative and therefore may have been a self-hating man who had sex with men (I don't want to say homosexual or gay as that is a limiting definition, so I revert to the term public health officials use for statistics. so it includes bisexual and closeted people.

theres no indication of any anti-semitism, except for the haircut. i will agree the haircut is disturbing but again, all speculation. with Roof he made it clear.

 

[Tortoise]

prue I think you might have hit the multiquote button by mistake. I keep seeing my post about him being 19 quoted in your replies, I don't mind of course but it's going to need manual deletion from your reply at some point or it might stay there forever

 

[RainCheck]

I find I don't really care what he was or why he did it, such a void, the evil he

To all those calling for the death penalty and/or for federal hate crime charges...

Would this be the first time the killer was a member of the same "protected class" as the victim?

For instance, assuming SW did have a homosexual relationship with at least BB, back in high school, and then he murders BB because of him being gay.

How do they prove the difference between a hate crime and an obsessive crazy psycho ex? I am guessing if he had a manifesto that would make it clear.

Did SW blame BB for SW's own discovery of gay feelings? I guess that could qualify as a hate crime... Either way I'd like someone to explain if a hate crime is even possible when the suspect is of the same class (homosexual) as the victim.

It still seems like a first-time-ever situation if there are hate crime charges. seeing as the FBI is involved that could certainly be possible, or they're likely involved to help with the snapchat component of the investigation.

Being in the closet doesn't mean you lose your consideration in the hate crime statue, does it? Or a gay can kill another gay and its still a hate crime because that gay was homophobic on social media?

I think clearly they need more than just social media to determine its a hate crime, unless its overwhelmingly clear. And again, is it even possible to prosecute someone for a hatecrime against their own "protected class" be it skin color, orientation, gender, religion, etc... note that politics is not a protected class. I'm talking about the allegations that SW was also a homosexual, or at least a "man who has sex with men" according to the verbage used in public health to include those who don't identify as gay (but are none the less engaged in homosexual relationships)

is this going to be the first self-hating M4M hate crime? because i've seen multiple people in this thread talking about hate crimes, death penalty, confederate flags, online comments against gays (which I have not seen yet, bwt)

If you haven't seen them it's because you haven't tried looking. They've been posted numerous times by various people.

There has not been any indication SW was gay or a closeted gay. However to answer your question, yes a person who themselves is gay can be charged and convicted of federal hate crimes if they killed their victim for being specifically gay, transgendered etc. A recent famous case is the murder of Mercedes Williamson by her exboyfriend. He was aware she was transgendered but when his gang found out he lured her and killed her hoping to claim a gay panic defense. However, he was in a relationship with Mercedes and knew she was born male. His gang does not allow homosexual members and may even have killed him besides kicking him out. Even if SW had a sexual relationship with Blaze in the past, he could still be convicted of a federal hate crime. I do not think SW had a relationship with Blaze in the past, but I think it's possible SW posed as gay to lure Blaze. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ender-hate-crime-sentence-mercedes-williamson

There have also been some prosecuted federal hate crime cases where a man pretended to be gay online to lure gay victims.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...accused-of-luring-robbery-victims-via-grindr/

 

[SleuthDr]

Yes, I agree. I don’t know whether it is a personality disorder or what, but his mother/family is certainly aware and have probably struggled for years with how to deal with it. Probably had something to do with his leaving OCSA after sophomore year. MOO

Interesting info, and does anyone have a source for that info, or more details? If true, where did SW finish up high school?

SW was born in 1997. BB was 19 as of January 2018, I surmise he would turn 20 this year. Was SW ahead of BB by one year at OCSA? If he left sophomore year, that would indicate a relatively small time window in which they were both at that school. There has been talk of an old romance between them as being played out up to 1/2/2018. Realistically, if they overlapped at OCSA for just a year or so - and both were 14-15, how likely is that?

Certainly possible, but it's not as if they spent the 4 years there and graduated together.

 

[FreeRoad]

To all those calling for the death penalty and/or for federal hate crime charges...

Would this be the first time the killer was a member of the same "protected class" as the victim?

For instance, assuming SW did have a homosexual relationship with at least BB, back in high school, and then he murders BB because of him being gay.

How do they prove the difference between a hate crime and an obsessive crazy psycho ex? I am guessing if he had a manifesto that would make it clear.

Did SW blame BB for SW's own discovery of gay feelings? I guess that could qualify as a hate crime... Either way I'd like someone to explain if a hate crime is even possible when the suspect is of the same class (homosexual) as the victim.

It still seems like a first-time-ever situation if there are hate crime charges. seeing as the FBI is involved that could certainly be possible, or they're likely involved to help with the snapchat component of the investigation.

Being in the closet doesn't mean you lose your consideration in the hate crime statue, does it? Or a gay can kill another gay and its still a hate crime because that gay was homophobic on social media?

I think clearly they need more than just social media to determine its a hate crime, unless its overwhelmingly clear. And again, is it even possible to prosecute someone for a hatecrime against their own "protected class" be it skin color, orientation, gender, religion, etc... note that politics is not a protected class. I'm talking about the allegations that SW was also a homosexual, or at least a "man who has sex with men" according to the verbage used in public health to include those who don't identify as gay (but are none the less engaged in homosexual relationships)

is this going to be the first self-hating M4M hate crime? because i've seen multiple people in this thread talking about hate crimes, death penalty, confederate flags, online comments against gays (which I have not seen yet, bwt)

Excellent questions!

Man, we humans are soooo complicated.:headache:ullhair: