CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #14

[Seajay]

I do believe LE is focused on the family, I think their problem is which one(s). We have 5 people. Some may innocent and didn't even know about it and others, well, they were involved. Or they are all involved, but to what extent?? There would be the actual participation in the disappearance, and then there would be the conspiracy side of it. With this crew, it would be hard for LE to narrow it down and focus on the right one(s). IMO.

 

[Cubby]

I do believe LE is focused on the family, I think their problem is which one(s). We have 5 people. Some may innocent and didn't even know about it and others, well, they were involved. Or they are all involved, but to what extent?? There would be the actual participation in the disappearance, and then there would be the conspiracy side of it. With this crew, it would be hard for LE to narrow it down and focus on the right one(s). IMO.

I've thought along these lines too. I think we have two main issues here, the battle over the bypass trust and AH's enormous debts. How much are each involved in the need to disappear Bob? I don't know that the co-conservators had an idea of the extent to which the grandson was in debt to Bob, and who knows what other debts he carried. And I can't help but wonder how the Michael's triangle has manipulated the co-conservators into guilting and convincing them their involvement is to the level of the Michael's.

I do believe the Michael's family, JeM, JuM and AH are the main culprits here. And the balance between the two issues, Bypass trust, AH's debts and how AH or JuM could have manipulated the two issues is always a question on my mind.

I really really wonder if JuM drew the focus of her sisters on the bypass trust in order to keep them distracted from her sons debts. After all the trouble seems to have skyrocketed upon the discovery of the gifts to the hair dresser.

 

[bourne]

I do believe LE is focused on the family, I think their problem is which one(s). We have 5 people. Some may innocent and didn't even know about it and others, well, they were involved. Or they are all involved, but to what extent?? There would be the actual participation in the disappearance, and then there would be the conspiracy side of it. With this crew, it would be hard for LE to narrow it down and focus on the right one(s). IMO.

There was some speculation earlier by one or two posters that LE suspected people outside the family such as Fontelle, housekeeper, and hairdresser. My post was to exclude at least one outsider from the suspect list.

Well, all the daughters and SIL and grandson had strong motives. Juxtapose the motive along with what I had stated in an earlier post as the "proximity factor" (whoever was closest physically to Bob in time and place the day he went missing) likely is/are the culprit(s): SIL who was doing home repairs on Bob's house, and whoever he talks to frequently in the days prior to Bob's disappearance (likely his wife and son). Check his phone records also. See if he also spoke about money matters to others outside the family. Perhaps he, along with grandson of Bob, also owed money and Bob's disappearance would help clear his debts.

 

[zwiebel]

bourne, I couldn't agree more about those habits of trained men dying hard. They really can't be shifted unless by a major event. The cleaner knew Bob well, imo. That's why she was so worried.

 

[bourne]

I've thought along these lines too. I think we have two main issues here, the battle over the bypass trust and AH's enormous debts. How much are each involved in the need to disappear Bob? I don't know that the co-conservators had an idea of the extent to which the grandson was in debt to Bob, and who knows what other debts he carried. And I can't help but wonder how the Michael's triangle has manipulated the co-conservators into guilting and convincing them their involvement is to the level of the Michael's.

I do believe the Michael's family, JeM, JuM and AH are the main culprits here. And the balance between the two issues, Bypass trust, AH's debts and how AH or JuM could have manipulated the two issues is always a question on my mind.

I really really wonder if JuM drew the focus of her sisters on the bypass trust in order to keep them distracted from her sons debts. After all the trouble seems to have skyrocketed upon the discovery of the gifts to the hair dresser.

I agree, strongest motive involve the person(s) who has an URGENT need for immediate money access -- not necessarily the one who owes the most debt, but the one who needs liquid cash immediately.

I'm excluding the hairdresser from the suspect list. She has no access to Bob's finances now that he has officially vanished into thin air. She also was reported by LE to have an alibi. No motive, no opportunity.

I also exclude Fontelle. She has a solid alibi -- she was physically in MO -- during time of Bob's disappearance. Also she does not appear to have any relations or know of any perps in CA who would do the dirty work to make Bob disappear. She also was not in Bob's will. No motive, no opportunity.

All immediate family members had cogent financial motive for wanting Bob gone. But who had also the means and opportunity?

SIL for certain. He was at Bob's home the day Bob vanished. He's physically capable. He does manual labor.

Grandson I heard lives in the neighborhood and was unemployed and in serious debt. He also had no alibi.

Middle daughter I read had an alibi. She was at work. But perhaps she conspired with other family members to get rid of dad?

Oldest daughter and youngest daughter had no alibi?

Do process of elimination using alibi first. Then the means: Who's physically capable of abducting and/or causing harm to dad?

 

[Cubby]

I agree, strongest motive involve the person(s) who has an URGENT need for immediate money access -- not necessarily the one who owes the most debt, but the one who needs liquid cash immediately.

I'm excluding the hairdresser from the suspect list. She has no access to Bob's finances now that he has officially vanished into thin air. She also was reported by LE to have an alibi. No motive, no opportunity.

I also exclude Fontelle. She has a solid alibi -- she was physically in MO -- during time of Bob's disappearance. Also she does not appear to have any relations or know of any perps in CA who would do the dirty work to make Bob disappear. She also was not in Bob's will. No motive, no opportunity.

All immediate family members had cogent financial motive for wanting Bob gone. But who had also the means and opportunity?

SIL for certain. He was at Bob's home the day Bob vanished. He's physically capable. He does manual labor.

Grandson I heard lives in the neighborhood and was unemployed and in serious debt. He also had no alibi.

Middle daughter I read had an alibi. She was at work. But perhaps she conspired with other family members to get rid of dad?

Oldest daughter and youngest daughter had no alibi?

Do process of elimination using alibi first. Then the means: Who's physically capable of abducting and/or causing harm to dad?

According to AH's deposition, he had been employed for 5 years at the time of the depo.

JuM posted on her community forum in April of 2009 that her husband, the last person to see Bob alive, was recently laid off. This lay off appears to have occured just 3 months shy of Bob's disappearance. A recent lay off of the last person to see Bob alive.....who was at his home the day of Bob's disappearance. Hmmm... I think you got it, bourne!

Let me find a link re JuM's post bbs.

Originally posted by Cloudajo:

I suspect but can’t say for sure what Bob’s son-in-law JM did for a living, at least during the period from 2004-2009. The 2002 article about daughter JM’s kidney donation says that 6 years before she and husband JM both worked at the same hospital.

From daughter JM’s earlier post on ROTW, her husband JM was laid off from his job on April 21, 2009 (post since removed).


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #5

 

[zwiebel]

And don't forget JeM and JuM seemed to have carried out some quite extensive renovations on their home. They can just eat up the money.

 

[Orgona]

Thanks for trying anyway, Cubby!

Although I can't really say 100% sure that Bob didn't disappeared on his own -having had some kind of accident resulting in his dead somewhere where nobody is aware of-, that seems not very likely because of his daily walks were in a populated area. Would that have been the case, he would have been found fairly quickly IMO.

I too think that the only ones to gain from poor Bob's disappearance were his immediate family. I imagine this all happened because some of them panicked about what is going to be Bob the newly wed's next step. Maybe it was a discussion which was heated and got out of hand, and something went horribly wrong accidentally or not so accidentally. Maybe it was all planned, I wouldn't know. If it was an accident, the person causing it could have simply panicked and disposed of him out of fear that nobody would believe him/her/them and would have to face manslaughter charge as a result.
I somehow hope for Bob's sake that whatever happened it was an accident, and he wouldn't had to face a situation where he knew he will not make it out alive, because someone want him dead for his money. Although, I fear that's the case.

I also can't understand why would anyone even hint Fontelle or her family could be the culprits as Fontelle had the most to lose with Bob's disappearance. I don't believe she is some kind of gold digger, but lets think so for argument's sake. She would need Bob alive to be able to add her to his accounts, to persuade him to add her to the trust, to make him hand over as much control over his things and dealings as possible. Now she is in the uncertain. She can't really have her hand in his wallet so to speak.
I also don't know how is it in the US, but here where I'm from, the moment Fontelle married Bob, she would have lost all widows benefits of her late husband, and because she is just married she wouldn't have any right to any widows benefit after Bob yet. So in this case she would have lost money until Bob is declared dead, and even then she would only inherit his money or some of it if that was already arranged, if Bob already made her his beneficiary.
Anyway, I believe Fontelle really loves Bob.

 

[Seajay]

Bob Harrod's story was shown on Investigation Discovery's "Disappeared." Right now i'm wondering if we will see this story again on Investigation Discovery's other show "Blood Ties" where family kills family for money. You never know............

 

[Angelo]

I've just watch the show for the 4th time. I keep picking up little nuggets I missed before. Here's one that's got my hinky-meter on high alert.

JuM calls Fontelle and says, "Fontelle, Daddy's missing."

Does that seem odd to anyone else? What I mean is that, if the family had no idea where Bob went, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would call HIS WIFE earlier and ASK if she had heard from him? Something like, "hey Fontelle, Dad left the house this afternoon and hasn't been back and we're getting worried about him. Have you heard from him? Did he mention that he might go somewhere today?"

Great point!!!!!

 

[Mels3kidz]

I've just watch the show for the 4th time. I keep picking up little nuggets I missed before. Here's one that's got my hinky-meter on high alert.

JuM calls Fontelle and says, "Fontelle, Daddy's missing."

Does that seem odd to anyone else? What I mean is that, if the family had no idea where Bob went, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would call HIS WIFE earlier and ASK if she had heard from him? Something like, "hey Fontelle, Dad left the house this afternoon and hasn't been back and we're getting worried about him. Have you heard from him? Did he mention that he might go somewhere today?"

That's just so eerily similar to Scott Peterson calling Lacey's mom to tell her that "Lacey's missing."

Mel

 

[deca]

Interested to hear what you all think:

I think we can all agree that the family has been less than helpful/suspicious in regards to Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

There are two likely scenarios here:
1. Murder of opportunity
2. Premeditated


If person "A" killed Bob either by #1 or #2, other members of the family have also acted strangely (not pushing for searches, being quick to consider him gone, etc.).

I find it hard to believe if more than 3 family members knew about a murder, NO ONE would trip up, make a mistake, tell someone, go visit the grave*, etc. How could they be THAT clever?

So do the others KNOW about "A" killing Bob, or are they simply trying to keep quiet and not look a gift horse in the mouth?


* I have heard that it is very tempting to killers to go check out their hiding places from time to time to make sure everything is still hidden.

 

[Angelo]

That's just so eerily similar to Scott Peterson calling Lacey's mom to tell her that "Lacey's missing."

Mel

I had the same thought.

 

[Angelo]

Interested to hear what you all think:

I think we can all agree that the family has been less than helpful/suspicious in regards to Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

There are two likely scenarios here:
1. Murder of opportunity
2. Premeditated


If person "A" killed Bob either by #1 or #2, other members of the family have also acted strangely (not pushing for searches, being quick to consider him gone, etc.).

I find it hard to believe if more than 3 family members knew about a murder, NO ONE would trip up, make a mistake, tell someone, go visit the grave*, etc. How could they be THAT clever?

So do the others KNOW about "A" killing Bob, or are they simply trying to keep quiet and not look a gift horse in the mouth?


* I have heard that it is very tempting to killers to go check out their hiding places from time to time to make sure everything is still hidden.

BBM~~~~

This is the way I see it. I think the others suspect and are keeping quiet and hoping to divert attention elsewhere.

 

[believe09]

We have a heated family meeting with differing accounts of what transpired EXCEPT we have a yellow legal pad with writing in Bob's own hand with a "to do" list concerning the checking accounts, the house, the estate etc... (just like Fontelle said in her interview.)

Monday morning arrives. There is a to do list that will impact everyone's share of the trust. The housekeeper is due to come on Tuesday. Fontelle wont arrive until Wednesday. SIL shows up and doesnt complete his honey do list....I mean, this doesnt seem all that hard to me.

LE states this is a battle over the money. LE concers that BL wouldnt kill the goose who lays the golden eggs and Mrs Harrod has no standing in the trust accounts.

Who benefited from the elimination of Mr Harrod on Monday Morning?

Thank God for Agnes.

 

[tlcya]

I saw this on the ID channel this morning. I was so hoping that when I searched on the internet that I would find news that this case had been resolved. I am glad I found your site, but sad to see that this case is still unresolved. Do the police even have anyone that they consider a person of interest? This is such a disturbing case to me...it seems there were several people who could have been involved in the disappearance. I hope that they continue to work on this case, and not let it slip into the cracks to be forgotten. If anyone has any information, besides what was on the show, about what the status of this case is currently, I would love to read more. Thank you so much, and I'm so glad to be a part of the Websleuth community!

:welcome5: so glad the episode about Bob's case on Discovery led you to us.

 

[believe09]

Interested to hear what you all think:

I think we can all agree that the family has been less than helpful/suspicious in regards to Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

There are two likely scenarios here:
1. Murder of opportunity
2. Premeditated


If person "A" killed Bob either by #1 or #2, other members of the family have also acted strangely (not pushing for searches, being quick to consider him gone, etc.).

I find it hard to believe if more than 3 family members knew about a murder, NO ONE would trip up, make a mistake, tell someone, go visit the grave*, etc. How could they be THAT clever?

So do the others KNOW about "A" killing Bob, or are they simply trying to keep quiet and not look a gift horse in the mouth?


* I have heard that it is very tempting to killers to go check out their hiding places from time to time to make sure everything is still hidden.

I may be in the minority, but I like to think it was yet another heated exchange but this one went terribly wrong. There was panic because whatever happened, it clearly didnt look like something benign had happened like a fall. Maybe it all came to blows....Bob was an ex marine and was in good physical condition according to his DR. Maybe he defended himself.

I mean, the mechanics of this situation are a mess-these people do not know how to act, they dont know how they should behave and they have no idea how they should be portraying their feelings. Every step is a misstep. They try and kick out his wife, they make a run for his money, they take to the www with disgusting mud slinging, they cant even get a simple reward offer right. They have to put some aberrant clause about certain people not collecting. They make deals for loan forgiveness that look suspiciously like blackmail payments.. I mean :waitasec:

And then we have these interviews-PB indicates that Bob has mental acuity issues but 6 weeks later testifies that he was mentally sharp and just fine the last time she saw him. (The civil trial against the BL which was lost.)

I know it all looks premeditated. Something had to be done to change Bob's mind, and it had to be done Monday morning.

Thank God for Agnes-otherwise no one would have known anything until Fontelle showed up on 7/29. At least imo.

 

[believe09]

That's just so eerily similar to Scott Peterson calling Lacey's mom to tell her that "Lacey's missing."

Mel

:frown:

JuM is a CSI junkie-at least that is what she says. I wonder how closely she followed that case.

 

[Angelo]

I love that they ended the Disappeared episode with Fontelle's words!



"Since I lost Bob, my life has been a nightmare. When I go to bed at night, the last thing I think about is Bob and its the first thing that comes to my mind when I open my eyes in the morning. And I don't know if it will ever end.

But you know what, I'm a tough old lady and if they thought this Missouri hayseed, or whatever you want to call me, was going to pack up and go home, I won't! I'm staying here.

I want to see justice."

 

[Mels3kidz]

Did we ever learn what came of those mummified and partially skeletonized remains that were found on Hwy 330 ... weirdly enough not too far from the area where JeM & JuM live?