CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[zwiebel]

Bob had written those changes down so he didn't forget them, and I doubt very much he had internet banking. Is telephone banking common in the US? Either way, I think check account changes would have to be made in person and that the banking scenario is very likely.

 

[deca]

While I think Bob was removed from the house incapacitated, if I were to consider a way Bob might have been lured out of the house, perhaps JeM offered to take him to the bank to make those changes adding Fontelle onto his accounts. Except instead of taking Bob to the bank, he took him somewhere else and disposed of him, either to die in the elements or harming him just prior to dumping him somewhere.

That seems like the most logical reason he could be lured out of the house easily.

Even something like going to the grocery store to pick up some food/wine for Fontelle's arrival could have been a good lure.

IIRC, don't you have to go to the bank and show your ID for something like adding a person to your account?

Am I right in remembering that at least a few of the poi's weren't currently working? (lots of unaccounted time)

 

[MaryNo]

The sources for the information is listed within/near each segment of the timeline.

I'm not sure who called at 10:00. Law enforcement isn't telling
Paula's number came up "private". She identified her own phone call. I'm not sure if it was through caller ID or phone records. She gave 2 different times for her call, but they were within a 15 min. time period. I believe her. That's something that could be challenged, and she would be caught lying. I don't think she had a reason to lie about that, anyway.

Julie, in her TV interview, (link is in Timeline thread) gave us the 12 - 1, and then again in Disappeared. Agnes, to our knowledge, has not disputed that timeline. She had the opportunity when telling her story on Disappeared. I don't think Julie or Disappeared had a reason to lie about Agnes' arrival. She has nothing to gain by laying claim to a cover story. Her loyalties were with Bob and Georgia, rather than the children. Also, she felt something was wrong with the amount of time Jeff spent upstairs. She could have her own suspicions.

I remember "back when" when I first heard about Julie's timeline. I was stunned that she'd put her own husband at the scene when Bob was to have gone missing. I wonder if she and her sisters regret a couple of their public statements. Paula's phone call statement above tends to put Jeff right smack front and center, as well.

And YES! to your last paragraph. There's a small possibility that she doesn't quite "know" what she knows

Excellent post! Exactly what we need here. The timeline for Bob and the POIs

BBM. Who called Bob at 10am Monday? You posted that by deduction it was not Agnes or Fontelle. And from what I recall, Paula called Bob at 11:40am Mon but it was "unlisted" in Bob's phone records.

Do we have CL Agnes' statement of when she arrived at Bob's home? I'd trust her over the SIL Jeff.

B&RBM I find the precision of time given by Julie very startling and intriguing: she stated "28 hours" since Bob went missing. Do you have a copy of her post and the time she posted it? Her reference to the precise time is very very HINKY. How could she be so certain that Bob went missing around 10am? Did she call him at that time and ascertain with her sisters and other family members including her hubby Jeff that that was the last time they spoke with Bob?

That is just TOO WEIRD. Since by Jeff's own admission, he didn't leave for Home Depot until at noon or later. So that would mean Jeff himself was at Bob's home and had seen him before noon, correct? So why would Julie assert that her own dad Bob disappeared at 10am Mon and not later in the day? VERY VERY HINKY...It's as if she KNOWS...

Hmm...things that make you go hmmm....

 

[believe09]

I'm not sure who called at 10:00. Law enforcement isn't telling
Paula's number came up "private". She identified her own phone call. I'm not sure if it was through caller ID or phone records. She gave 2 different times for her call, but they were within a 15 min. time period. I believe her. That's something that could be challenged, and she would be caught lying. I don't think she had a reason to lie about that, anyway.

Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful hard work, MaryNo!!

I actually dont believe her phone call. Her recitation of the dialogue defies reality imvho and if the call came through as private, why would it have come through as private unless she set her phone service to that? If LE had to tell her the call came through as private, I am skeptical that she intentionally established her phone service to be unlisted.

If she was employed outside of the home at that time, she would still know how her calls showed on people's caller ID.

I think the phone call and the phantom SUV are attempts at altering the investigation. jmvho.

 

[tamild]

While I think Bob was removed from the house incapacitated, if I were to consider a way Bob might have been lured out of the house, perhaps JeM offered to take him to the bank to make those changes adding Fontelle onto his accounts. Except instead of taking Bob to the bank, he took him somewhere else and disposed of him, either to die in the elements or harming him just prior to dumping him somewhere.

That seems like the most logical reason he could be lured out of the house easily.

BBM

I still think it was a trip to the hardware store. For example:

JeM:I need to get to the store
Bob:Okay, I'll be with you in a minute (favorable response)

 

[cloudajo]

I'm re-posting this. It starts about 24:30 in the Disappeared video. "So you went back" means he went back to the same Home Depot a second time.

Note: If you purchase the video on Amazon, you can turn "Captions" on to see what's being said in text at the bottom of the screen during the video.

=========================
Friday July 31, 2009

Narrator: Since Jeff was the last person to see Bob that day, he’s asked to come into the station for questioning.

Re-enactment with Loomis questioning Jeff:

Loomis: Do you have any idea what could’ve happened to Bob?

Narrator: Jeff says he wasn’t at the house when Bob left, and produces two receipts to prove it.

Loomis: So you went back, and this would be the second receipt.

Actor Playing Jeff: Right, right.

Detective Radomski: We were able to corroborate it with some store surveillance and yes his time is accounted for, but there’s still windows of opportunity, if it were, for something to go wrong.

 

[MaryNo]

Respectfully BBM

I've always believed she made the call. And, I've always thought the dialogue was contrived; totally ridiculous, in my opinion.

Because, until the last 6 years, I've had unlisted service, the whole "private" issue whooshed right over my head. :blushing: You're absolutely right, if I had called Bob, and a "private" had shown, I would have immediately known it was mine. No one would have to point it out to me. If that call wasn't hers, that really busts the timeline wide open. This phone call has put a monkey wrench in my belief that Bob disappeared much earlier in the day.

The 10 am call hasn't helped much either. My theory on this call has never changed. I don't think the person knew Bob well enough to know whether or not they were actually talking to Bob. No one has shaken that theory, YET. Will save it for another post

Thank you! I will be rethinking the "Paula angle". :rose:

I so agree with you on this SUV sham. I mean, REALLY? ....

Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful hard work, MaryNo!!

I actually dont believe her phone call. Her recitation of the dialogue defies reality imvho and if the call came through as private, why would it have come through as private unless she set her phone service to that? If LE had to tell her the call came through as private, I am skeptical that she intentionally established her phone service to be unlisted.

If she was employed outside of the home at that time, she would still know how her calls showed on people's caller ID.

I think the phone call and the phantom SUV are attempts at altering the investigation. jmvho.

 

[believe09]

MaryNo, I sense you have a theory that will be similar to one I have only recently started to ponder....I cant wait to get your thoughts.

 

[TDW59]

Thanks Cloudajo, great catch!

 

[TDW59]

The language caught my attention as well.

I don't have the statement at my fingertips, but there was a switch from a regular personal style to that "favorable response" which is considered to be a distancing response.

 

[cloudajo]

• July 27, 2009 - 81 year old Bob Harrod went missing
• Sampling of what 2 of Bob’s daughters posted about him on the world-wide web in August 2009

RB

• It seems the media is trying to draw him out by using the angle of Sympathy for Fontelle and also reminding him of his God, HIS money.
• POI has bilked our Mother's Blood money -- money D could certainly have spent to improve the conditions of Mom's care, but refused to.
• Don't think he would abandon his home in the long run. (ie: Home=$$$=God to him).
• Why wouldn't he take his friggen dirty $$$ with him, then we wouldn't think we were expected to properly manage things in his absence. Also, if he did this, it is cruel to Fontelle and unforgiveable!
• He pushed his family away and became even more secretive. We now know more about what his single-minded secret was that IMHO he was so ashamed of as to push family away. Definately NOT the same person we remember going to church when we were little, only to end up selling out to the devil IMHO.
• F was the only person who seemed to be able to pull him out of that cycle and back to beginning to act like a decent being human again.
• It's incredible what we learn about our parents later in life. If he didn't leave voluntarily, he may have set himself up by association with the wrong kind of people.
• D had to have been pretty desperate for something, to "loan" so much to POI. It was NOT in character for him to be charitable with $$$$, unless there was some profit in it for him.
• But we still want him to come back home for a chance to possibly redeem himself.
• Real Quick: D continued to "loan" POI money, even after he married F. What a snake (either D and/or POI)!
• POI insinuating that family (actual family) is involved. Jeesh! POI doesn't really know family and only had D's chronic lies to base her opinion on.
• BTW we checked the refrigerator freezer -- it was full of Banquet Dinners! (Yuk!)
• While D may have hidden money, he had OCD about his $$$. It was his God.
• No doubt in my mind, Dad probably "cashed out" his own life insurance policy, if one existed, before the date for Mom's memorial had even been set. The forms for Mom's life insurance policy could have been ready and waiting for her last breath too....IMHO That's exactly the kind of person the father WE KNOW is, as we have already tried to explain.

PB

• He does NOT have long-distance and was too cheap to pay for it.
• The POI did give him the cell phone, but he did NOT know how to answer it - chuckle.

 

[TDW59]

DEPOSITION OF ANDREW ROBERT HARROD PART 7

MS KEMP: Well, even in America..
MR ALGORRI: Is there an instruction or not, Counsel?
MS KEMP: Even in America there's a right of privacy and confidentiality. And the settlement agreement will be made available to you, but you have an obligation to maintain the confidentiality of that document as well.
MR ALGORRI: I'm not a signatory. This is all news to me. So if you want to bring a protective order, fine. If you want to oppose the motion, fine. So let me move on here, and let me ask the question:
BY MR ALGORRI: How much did you pay in addition to re-conveying the house in settlement of the dispute involving reconveyance of the house back to the Harrod Family Trust?
MS KEMP: I'm instructing him not to answer that.
MR ALGORRI: Okay. And the legal ground is privacy of this secret settlement agreement; is that correct?
MS KEMP: Privacy in general, ans we're making the settlement document available to you. I will -- and I will tell you that payment was made in accord with the settlement agreement which is available to you.
BY MR ALGORRI: Okay. So you quitclaimed the house back to the Harrod Family Trust, I take it?
MS KEMP: Objection, it was never -- when you're saying back to them, it was never owned by the Harrod Family Trust. So if you want to rephrase that question.
BY MR ALGORRI:
Q: Okay. Then who was the house given back to?
MS KEMP: Well, my objection is your question "back to." I mean, did anybody other than the Harrod Family Trust at the time you re-conveyed it back own the property? Did anybody else have an ownership interest in it?
MS KEMP: Vague and ambiguous.
BY MR ALGORRI: For instance, was there a second trust deed on the property --
A: No.

[PN, this is just being picky but there are other ownership rights. The mineral rights and etc have been reserved on this tract of land and belong to someone else, named in the grant deed.]

Q: -- who had an interest in it?
A: No.
Q: All right. Aside from the moneys (sic) that were used in the acquisition of the residence there in Placentia, were there any other personal loans given by Mr. Harrod to you during the period of time he was alive?
A: Yes.
Q: How many?
A: I don't recall. From time to time there would be personal loans, but I don't recall how many.
Q: Okay. Now, when you say "personal loans," they were written on, as far as you can recall, on a checking account strictly in his name Robert Harrod, a far as you can recall?
A: I don't recall.
Q: Okay. Do you have any recollection as to whether any of those personal loans were written on a checking account in the Robert Harrod Trust?
A: I don't recall the source of the funds.
Q: Can you give me an estimate as to the total sum, all the loans combined, approximately how much money was loaned to you by Mr. Harrod and or his trust?
A: The total of all loans?
Q: That's correct.
A: No, I can't give you an estimate.
Q: If I were to ask you whether it was under or over a hundred thousand dollars, could you answer it that way?
A: In total, yes. Yes, I would say it's over a hundred thousand dollars.
Q: Okay. Was it over $200,000?
A: I wouldn't think so.
Q: All right. Now, at some point in time you declared bankruptcy?
A: I did.
Q: Did you list as one of the creditors on your bankruptcy petition the Robert Harrod Trust?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you recall the amount of moneys (sic) owed to the trust that you listed on the bankruptcy petition?
A: I don't recall.
Q: Once again, was it over or under a hundred thousand dollars?
A: Again, there wasn't a -- an open loan for over a hundred thousand dollars. There were individual loans. At that point in time I would have thought the individual loans would have been under a hundred thousand dollars.
Q: Did you also list as part of that bankruptcy petition any of the deeds of trust held on the property by the Robert Harrod Trust?
A: I don't recall.
Q: And was that a Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 or any recollection in that regard?
A: I don't recall.
Q: Who was your attorney for that bankruptcy?
A: I don't recall.
Q: And approximately what year was that filed?
A: 2000, approximately.
Q: Has there been only one bankruptcy petition filed in connection with any moneys (sic) owed to either Mr. Harrod or the Harrod trust?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Approximately how many?
A: No. You said was there only one, I thought.
Q: Sorry.
A: Okay.
Q: I meant to ask have there been more than one and the answer obviously would be no.
A: Correct.

 

[MaryNo]

Yes, I have been paying attention, and hoping we'd have a chat We will!

MaryNo, I sense you have a theory that will be similar to one I have only recently started to ponder....I cant wait to get your thoughts.

 

[Cubby]

BBM

I still think it was a trip to the hardware store. For example:

JeM:I need to get to the store
Bob:Okay, I'll be with you in a minute (favorable response)

Like believe09, I do not believe PB spoke with Bob and heard JeM in the background.

I'd venture to bet LE has records of unanswered phone calls from persons other than any of Bob's daughters during the 'window of opportunity'.

It would be awfully odd if Bob answered one lone call which came up as private during the time other calls went unanswered.

I believe LE further narrowed their time line in that manner hence the info in MSM that they have phone records/numbers but are not releasing them to anyone.

 

[Opie]

It hurts just to read those comments by the daughters about their father.

 

[MaryNo]

Ah, Cloud "Thanks" just wasn't enough!

You bring back such sweet, sweet memories with your post. Unbridled rage, bannings, outrage, defensiveness, greed, the venom ... ahhh, what a time we had over "there". One more "Money = His God" just for old time's sake. These are just a few of the sweet nothings that were whispered in our ears back then. Good times; good times ...

Who would have ever doubted they wanted their father back alive? The sentimentality makes me reach for the tissue box.

 

[Cubby]

Just in case anyone was wondering what MaryNo was talking about in her previous post, here it is, Bob's daughters own words:

• July 27, 2009 - 81 year old Bob Harrod went missing
• Sampling of what 2 of Bob’s daughters posted about him on the world-wide web in August 2009

RB

• It seems the media is trying to draw him out by using the angle of Sympathy for Fontelle and also reminding him of his God, HIS money.
• POI has bilked our Mother's Blood money -- money D could certainly have spent to improve the conditions of Mom's care, but refused to.
• Don't think he would abandon his home in the long run. (ie: Home=$$$=God to him).
• Why wouldn't he take his friggen dirty $$$ with him, then we wouldn't think we were expected to properly manage things in his absence. Also, if he did this, it is cruel to Fontelle and unforgiveable!
• He pushed his family away and became even more secretive. We now know more about what his single-minded secret was that IMHO he was so ashamed of as to push family away. Definately NOT the same person we remember going to church when we were little, only to end up selling out to the devil IMHO.
• F was the only person who seemed to be able to pull him out of that cycle and back to beginning to act like a decent being human again.
• It's incredible what we learn about our parents later in life. If he didn't leave voluntarily, he may have set himself up by association with the wrong kind of people.
• D had to have been pretty desperate for something, to "loan" so much to POI. It was NOT in character for him to be charitable with $$$$, unless there was some profit in it for him.
• But we still want him to come back home for a chance to possibly redeem himself.
• Real Quick: D continued to "loan" POI money, even after he married F. What a snake (either D and/or POI)!
• POI insinuating that family (actual family) is involved. Jeesh! POI doesn't really know family and only had D's chronic lies to base her opinion on.
• BTW we checked the refrigerator freezer -- it was full of Banquet Dinners! (Yuk!)
• While D may have hidden money, he had OCD about his $$$. It was his God.
• No doubt in my mind, Dad probably "cashed out" his own life insurance policy, if one existed, before the date for Mom's memorial had even been set. The forms for Mom's life insurance policy could have been ready and waiting for her last breath too....IMHO That's exactly the kind of person the father WE KNOW is, as we have already tried to explain.

PB

• He does NOT have long-distance and was too cheap to pay for it.
• The POI did give him the cell phone, but he did NOT know how to answer it - chuckle.

Thank you, Cloudajo. I knew you'd come through with some saved info Bob's daughters sanitized off the web.

 

[MaryNo]

And they're fighting pretty hard to get their hands on that "dirty friggen $$$", wouldn't you say, Cubby?

I love the line about Bob redeeming himself. Like, he owes her something. Whose money is it, anyway? Whose life is it, anyway? Pffft

 

[Angelo]

I believe the CL asked for the change of work day and Bob agreed.

Also, I believe PB spoke to Bob that morning on the phone and overheard her BIL in the background saying he was leaving for the hardware store. She did not speak to JeM herself.

fwiw/jmo

I don't believe PB and her story of this phone call.

PB August 11, 2009:

"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."

 

[MaryNo]

Respectfully BBM

I like this theory. The person on the other end of the line wouldn't necessarily know whether or not they were really talking to Bob, right?

BBM


I believe the day Mrs Harrod returned to MO, daughter JuM filed her second report of elder abuse regarding her father. We did speculate that the 10 am call on Monay 27th could have been OC social services telling Bob they would be arriving the next day to check on him (which they did, though he'd already disappeared by then of course).

It made me wonder if Bob got the call, was furious and 'vented' on the only other person in his house at the time - his son-in-law.