CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[Mahouston69]

I think as outspoken and helpful as Fontelle is she would tell everyone she could that she spoke to him that morning, or tried to reach him that morning, if she did. Since she hasn't and probably didn't, as she has outspokenly said she last spoke to him the night before. Bob did not in my opinion, talk to anyone by phone. That the 11:45-12 phone call WAS the CL calling when she could not get an answer at the door, or find the key in the mailbox to see if he was inside to let her in.

So, if that is the case, why would PB say she called and spoke to Bob and why would she insert the additional information that JeM was going to Home Depot?

 

[zwiebel]

I like the way you have phrased that, because that's exactly how PB's 'overheard' mention from SIL about the hardware store visit sounds; inserted.

ETA: I've never seen anything else like that under a Namus entry.

 

[Cubby]

I think as outspoken and helpful as Fontelle is she would tell everyone she could that she spoke to him that morning, or tried to reach him that morning, if she did. Since she hasn't and probably didn't, as she has outspokenly said she last spoke to him the night before. Bob did not in my opinion, talk to anyone by phone. That the 11:45-12 phone call WAS the CL calling when she could not get an answer at the door, or find the key in the mailbox to see if he was inside to let her in.

So, if that is the case, why would PB say she called and spoke to Bob and why would she insert the additional information that JeM was going to Home Depot?

BBM. I've wondered about that too. I don't recall how long it was after Bob's disappearance PB made that statement. When did she know there was no HD receipt for a noonish visit? Before or after JeM gave the 3pm HD receipt to LE?

 

[zwiebel]

I was trying to work that out. I think the info about the call was first posted on IS?

By Friday 31st July LE seems to have been given the no receipt info. But the sisters were all calling around each other that week, so PB could have heard before. I'll have to go back and check some old links in the media thread. I still can't get over the fact that in the early days, Det Loomis did not know where one daughter lived. Was that a daughter avoiding Talking to LE and being aided by her sisters, or just a simple case of another officer not passing the info on to Det Loomis, in time for the interview?

 

[cloudajo]

For reference:

August 10, 2009 – IS - RB

BIL was last, that we know of, to see him. He was helping with repairs at the house that day and Dad disappeared sometime while BIL was at Home Depot getting supplies, but before cleaning lady arrived. I cannot envision BIL having any involvement in Dad's disappearance. He was like the son that Mom & Dad never had, a very thoughtful person who was known to help Mom & Dad with repairs, more often when Dad could no longer do that kind of stuff himself. The cleaning lady has been questioned and BIL has been questioned, as have all family members except myself. My turn is Tuesday -- saved the best for last! HA!

Aug 11, 2009 – IS - PB

I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m.

Aug 18, 2009 – Namus - PB

Last Known Alive (LKA) entered as 12:00

He was at home and seemed in good spirits when I last spoke to him somewhere between 11 a.m. - 12pm. His son-in-law was there doing odd jobs as Dads new wife was returning from Missouri on Wed. 7/29/09. Heard son-in-law say he was going to the hardware store. When he returned the housekeeper was waiting outside and Dad was gone. He did NOT take his car, but did have his keys and wallet. No contact or word has been heard from since.

August 13, 2009 – IS - PB

LE has looked at D's phone records - know because they did not know which phone call was mine, because I came up as private.

 

[Cubby]

For reference:

August 10, 2009 – IS - RB

BIL was last, that we know of, to see him. He was helping with repairs at the house that day and Dad disappeared sometime while BIL was at Home Depot getting supplies, but before cleaning lady arrived. I cannot envision BIL having any involvement in Dad's disappearance. He was like the son that Mom & Dad never had, a very thoughtful person who was known to help Mom & Dad with repairs, more often when Dad could no longer do that kind of stuff himself. The cleaning lady has been questioned and BIL has been questioned, as have all family members except myself. My turn is Tuesday -- saved the best for last! HA!

Respectfully shortened.

BBM. I wonder then if she had any suspicions about her nephew. Especially with the tremendous debt he owed Bob. I sometimes wonder if it was AH who harmed Bob and JeM who helped clean up for him. It's never been said if AH has an alibi or not.

 

[zwiebel]

I find it strange that in 2009 RB is explaining how Bob disappeared while son in law was at home depot, but before the cleaner arrived, but a couple of years later can be found posting that she can't answer questions about details because she's never felt the need to ask her brother in law about events.

So I take it the details she wrote about so confidently in 2009, she'd actually just heard second or third hand, from someone not actually present at the time?

 

[Cubby]

That makes sense to me, zwie'. I think PB and RB heard info from JuM and later realized JeM did not have a receipt for a HD visit prior to the one time stamped at 3:02.

After first focusing around that noon timeline, sometime later it suddenly shifted 3 hours later to fit that time stamped receipt.

I have no doubt LE has verified where the CL was at noon.

When someone's story is honest there is never a need to change it and there is never a need keep it a secret. The truth flows easily and doesn't change over time.

 

[zwiebel]

RB on son in law: 'a very thoughtful person who was known to help Mom and Dad with repairs.'

RB on her missing father: 'He's very selfish. Very conditional.'

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html

That comment was to the most widely distributed newspaper in Orange County too. Even if she didn't like her father, she could have had the decency to restrain from saying unkind things about him, while he was missing. It makes me think she was prepared to come out fighting on behalf of her brother in law and protect his reputation, but was quite prepared to cast aspersions on Bob's character, when he was so desperately in need of support to find him.

Son in law's wife seems to have said the same or worse about Bob, here and there.

I'd love to hear their explanations of how they think such comments aided the search for their father, or how it helped people 'embrace this' as JuM said she wanted us to do.

 

[zwiebel]

That makes sense to me, zwie'. I think PB and RB heard info from JuM and later realized JeM did not have a receipt for a HD visit prior to the one time stamped at 3:02.

After first focusing around that noon timeline, sometime later it suddenly shifted 3 hours later to fit that time stamped receipt.

I have no doubt LE has verified where the CL was at noon.

When someone's story is honest there is never a need to change it and there is never a need keep it a secret. The truth flows easily and doesn't change over time.

Absolutely agree. Families of missing people will often rack their brains for the tiniest details they may have overlooked, but that is very different from what has happened here. There is a complete lack of vital details, and huge shifts and contradictions in areas that should have remained the same. None of it adds up.

 

[zwiebel]

For reference:

August 10, 2009 – IS - RB

BIL was last, that we know of, to see him. He was helping with repairs at the house that day and Dad disappeared sometime while BIL was at Home Depot getting supplies, but before cleaning lady arrived. I cannot envision BIL having any involvement in Dad's disappearance. He was like the son that Mom & Dad never had, a very thoughtful person who was known to help Mom & Dad with repairs, more often when Dad could no longer do that kind of stuff himself. The cleaning lady has been questioned and BIL has been questioned, as have all family members except myself. My turn is Tuesday -- saved the best for last! HA!

Aug 11, 2009 – IS - PB

I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m.

Aug 18, 2009 – Namus - PB

Last Known Alive (LKA) entered as 12:00

He was at home and seemed in good spirits when I last spoke to him somewhere between 11 a.m. - 12pm. His son-in-law was there doing odd jobs as Dads new wife was returning from Missouri on Wed. 7/29/09. Heard son-in-law say he was going to the hardware store. When he returned the housekeeper was waiting outside and Dad was gone. He did NOT take his car, but did have his keys and wallet. No contact or word has been heard from since.

August 13, 2009 – IS - PB

LE has looked at D's phone records - know because they did not know which phone call was mine, because I came up as private.

So by Monday, Aug 10th, LE had spoken to everyone close to the case except for daughter RB. (That's two whole weeks after Bob disappeared but RB doesn't seem at all concerned it has taken them so long - look at that cheerful 'HA!' at the end. Also, if she made that post Monday, why didn't she say 'tomorrow', instead of Tuesday? Is it possible LE were going to wait ANOTHER week?).

Daughter PB made the Namus entry a week later, Tuesday Aug 18th. It looks like she was still under the impression then, that son in law had told police he went to the hardware once, at 12noon.

But that can't be possible as media had already reported him (July 30th, three days after Bob vanished) as leaving the home at 1.30pm/returning from the hardware store at 3pm:
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels

I am noticing that what changed there (between the July 30th media report and PB's Aug 18th entry, is not the RETURN time, but the time son in law was supposed to have left. PB doesn't mention a return time for son in law on Namus. Very remiss of her. That could have really helped people pin down what time Bob might actually have disappeared.)

 

[travelbug]

RB on son in law: 'a very thoughtful person who was known to help Mom and Dad with repairs.'

RB on her missing father: 'He's very selfish. Very conditional.'

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html

That comment was to the most widely distributed newspaper in Orange County too. Even if she didn't like her father, she could have had the decency to restrain from saying unkind things about him, while he was missing. It makes me think she was prepared to come out fighting on behalf of her brother in law and protect his reputation, but was quite prepared to cast aspersions on Bob's character, when he was so desperately in need of support to find him.

Son in law's wife seems to have said the same or worse about Bob, here and there.

I'd love to hear their explanations of how they think such comments aided the search for their father, or how it helped people 'embrace this' as JuM said she wanted us to do.

IMHO such vitriol, at a time when most family members would be mourning the possible loss of a parent, serves to reinforce the fact that bitterness and resentment were the true feelings they had for Bob. It so consumes them that they couldn't even pretend to have more socially acceptable concern and caring when speaking publicly.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, it kept popping up. The two daughters did not come over well in the Disappeared episode either, I think, although they were trying very hard there.

Daughter JuM was complete, loving sweetness about her Dad in the TV interviews she did. But then she abruptly stopped talking to media altogether and never has again. No curtain calls at all. So ultimately that doesn't make a good impression either, I think.

 

[zwiebel]

Still, impressions are not what counts. If only someone had been able to provide a clearer time period for Bob going missing, a description of his shirt that didn't change from 'uknown' to 'white', that would have helped a lot.

 

[zwiebel]

Travelbug, do you think it is possible for someone to have driven to any hardware store nearest to Carnation drive, purchased something and driven back, within twenty minutes? On a weekday morning.

 

[travelbug]

Travelbug, do you think it is possible for someone to have driven to any hardware store nearest to Carnation drive, purchased something and driven back, within twenty minutes? On a weekday morning.

It would be possible to drive south on Kraemer to Crowther, turn right, and make it to Home Depot in that period of time. Until 8 or 9 months ago Crowther reached a dead end in the HD parking lot and it has always had very little traffic. It was always my favorite shortcut to HD.

 

[zwiebel]

That sort of local knowledge is so invaluable. Trying to go back years and track down what road and traffic conditions - or even trash collection days - were then, is so difficult. Thanks so much for your input.

So son in law did just about have time to be in the home for daughter PB's call around 11.45, announce he was going to Home Depot, go there, buy something, and then be back in time to meet the housekeeper on the stoop at just gone 12.

Why no receipt for that trip though? We know he was paid for the work through the estate later, and he retained an afternoon receipt. Why no receipt for that crucial period when it looks like Bob disappeared?

 

[zwiebel]

That leads to JuM's 'maybe one? Noon?' comment to media.

She must surely have been told that by her husband - son in law. Why would he have told his wife Bob disappeared at a time when, at least for part of that period, he knew he and the housekeeper were in the house?

And JuM had already changed her mind once on this topic, although it's still only the day after Bob disappeared. Her earlier post on her community forum put Bob's disappearance at 10am.

No, hang on. She said her dad had been missing approx 28 hours and the time of the post sets Bob's disappearance at 10am Monday. So she made the post around 2pm Tuesday. Her TV interview was also on Tuesday, but I thought that was in the morning.

So which came first, the TV interview or the post?

 

[zwiebel]

Here is Angelo's timeline from very early on, in 2010. There is no time for JuM's interview, but a time of 1.50pm when she made the post.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only

I guess her interview went out as an urgent news item on the day, fairly close to when it was shot? I wonder if there is a way to find out what time it was filmed?

Would it be totally out there to try and work it out from the position of the sun/shadows from the shots outside the house?

 

[zwiebel]

Here is the video from the Tuesday, if anyone can work out what time those shadows indicate. I can't do it. The film was shot in Carnation Drive, Placentia, sometime during Tuesday, July 27 2009.

http://youtu.be/4RSV7Lhqqus

(In the past few days, I have discovered it is possible to copy youtube links on an ipad. I had no idea!)