CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[zwiebel]

Gosh, it's funny what'll grab people's attention.

Carnation runs East West, sun set at 8pm that day, Placentia latitude is about level with Gibralter.....therefore positions of the shadows indicate it was about an hour before sunset. Around 6.30pm-7pm. In time for the evening news, locals?

 

[zwiebel]

So,

1.50pm JuM posts that her dad disappeared at 10am - 'approx 28 hours ago'

6.30-7pm JuM tells a TV interviewer the time he disappeared was 'maybe one? Noon?'

She also said that in the morning, before going to the house, she called the hospital etc.

It looks like JuM arrived at Bob's house late morning? and stayed there until at least 6.30pm in the evening of Tuesday 28 July. She would have made that community post from Bob's house, or her son's house around the block, in that case. And sometime between 1.50pm and 6.30pm she learned something that caused her to shift Bob's disappearance time from 10am to 12(noon)/1pm.

 

[zwiebel]

I really don't know if there is a connection, but I believe RB said the housekeeper called around the house on that Tuesday.

 

[zwiebel]

The housekeeper stated on Disappeared TV that Bob was missing by noon, when she arrived.

 

[sreshowtime]

soo...no one went to Mr. H's house on Monday night after the welfare check???
Did AH just sauter on home? And someone called Fontelle, oh Dad is missing...and SHE called le...??
biting fingers, slapping mouth...

 

[zwiebel]

soo...no one went to Mr. H's house on Monday night after the welfare check???
Did AH just sauter on home? And someone called Fontelle, oh Dad is missing...and SHE called le...??
biting fingers, slapping mouth...

Well, given the hesitant way he stood on the driveway with a key and waited for LE, I'm guessing this trained emergency worker zoomed away in his car after, with the doors securely locked. Sauntering in the dark 'hood' of Placentia would be much more intimidating than entering your grandpa's house on your own, in the dark.

I tried to use a bit of street gang language there, and it doesn't look right at all. Sorry Placentia. 'The hood' just doesn't suit you. A nice suburb, that's what you are....though I think I recall one of Bob's daughters reasons for not checking on him that night, was the dark and dangerous nature of Placentia?

 

[sreshowtime]

Aight he won't easy knowing some punk gonna get all up in his grill fore he can get to his crib in dat hood at night

 

[Mahouston69]

I'm inclined to believe that the time was changed to around 1 because of the phone call at 11:45, probably from the CL who always arrives on time or early and when no one answered the door and there was no key (if Bob was up at all that morning and left on his own accord he would have left it knowing she was coming) to go inside.

Common sense says she would try to call the house before just leaving and her cell would most likely come up Private. Giving PB or JuM the benefit of doubt as to who it really was. They had to explain why he did not answer the phone (already gone) by saying he was home then and "in fact, PB talked to him and JeM was leaving to go to HD" which looks like she couldn't have known that had she not actually spoken to him, ( i don't think she did) and then it looks like JeM was gone for a reasonable hour ( i think it was longer) before returning and finding CL waiting outside.

In actuality, if PB made up talking to him for that reason, and nobody else can verify they actually spoke to him that morning or who the call was from (towers would show if it was made from close to Bob's house)....it's possible he was gone between 12am (depends when he got off the phone with FH) and 12pm when JeM returned from....wherever he actually was.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm a bit lost there with the 12am to 12pm, Mahouston69. Can you explain a bit further for me?

 

[zwiebel]

I think the timeline may have shifted to between 12noon and 1pm because of something JuM learned from the housekeeper in the afternoon, that she hadn't known that morning.

I'm not sure though. To pinch someone else's quote, there's lots of smoke and mirrors here. I do think it's possible daughters were laboring under the same fog themselves - they were maybe hearing different stories via one sister from another family member, and at the same time were maybe not being totally upfront with each other.

I find it difficult to believe at least one sister says she has NEVER asked her brother in law about events. I cannot imagine being in Bob's house the day after he disappeared and not picking up the phone to call son in law, and go over what happened. I would have been looking for any and every clue myself. But I hang out on crime sleuthing websites - maybe she's just not that enquiring type?

 

[zwiebel]

I'm inclined to believe that the time was changed to around 1 because of the phone call at 11:45, probably from the CL who always arrives on time or early and when no one answered the door and there was no key (if Bob was up at all that morning and left on his own accord he would have left it knowing she was coming) to go inside.

Common sense says she would try to call the house before just leaving and her cell would most likely come up Private. Giving PB or JuM the benefit of doubt as to who it really was. They had to explain why he did not answer the phone (already gone) by saying he was home then and "in fact, PB talked to him and JeM was leaving to go to HD" which looks like she couldn't have known that had she not actually spoken to him, ( i don't think she did) and then it looks like JeM was gone for a reasonable hour ( i think it was longer) before returning and finding CL waiting outside.

In actuality, if PB made up talking to him for that reason, and nobody else can verify they actually spoke to him that morning or who the call was from (towers would show if it was made from close to Bob's house)....it's possible he was gone between 12am (depends when he got off the phone with FH) and 12pm when JeM returned from....wherever he actually was.

O/T Mahouston, but gosh we could have done with your skills here over the past couple of days......
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224994&page=48

 

[Mahouston69]

I'm a bit lost there with the 12am to 12pm, Mahouston69. Can you explain a bit further for me?

I just meant Fontelle said she spoke with him about 10 the night before, till ?
Nobody can actually prove they called, saw or spoke to him after that, and we know he wasn't there when the CL arrived, which may have been as early as the 11:45am phone call that shows up private.

OT As for that letter, wow, I'm up for taking a look at that. I haven't followed that case at all. Maybe objective eyes would be good?

 

[zwiebel]

Another letter's arrived now, but my eyes aren't up to anymore peering and deciphering!

No proof or details about calls is quite right, and one of the most noticeable things about Bob's case. Fontelle and daughter PB have given full details of their calls, but Bob is said to have had 'a lot' that Monday morning. The only ones police have mentioned are Fontelle's last, Sunday evening call to Bob, and the 10am Monday one that they seem to regard as his the last, verifiable call to/from Bob. That info seems to have been an accidental revelation by a journalist though.

The only reason I can think police have held the phone records so close to their chest is for the sake of any possible prosecution, in the future. It's a shame though, because it could really help pin down a time of disappearance.

The only

 

[travelbug]

I just meant Fontelle said she spoke with him about 10 the night before, till ?
Nobody can actually prove they called, saw or spoke to him after that, and we know he wasn't there when the CL arrived, which may have been as early as the 11:45am phone call that shows up private.

OT As for that letter, wow, I'm up for taking a look at that. I haven't followed that case at all. Maybe objective eyes would be good?

We have discussed the possibility of something happening during the night, however CL has confirmed speaking with Bob Mon. morning and LE has verified a 10 am call (but, won't divulge from who). Both of those calls could be from the CL, but it means that whatever happened occurred between 10 am and the arrival of the CL at around noon.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I'm inclined to believe that the time was changed to around 1 because of the phone call at 11:45, probably from the CL who always arrives on time or early and when no one answered the door and there was no key (if Bob was up at all that morning and left on his own accord he would have left it knowing she was coming) to go inside.

Common sense says she would try to call the house before just leaving and her cell would most likely come up Private. Giving PB or JuM the benefit of doubt as to who it really was. They had to explain why he did not answer the phone (already gone) by saying he was home then and "in fact, PB talked to him and JeM was leaving to go to HD" which looks like she couldn't have known that had she not actually spoken to him, ( i don't think she did) and then it looks like JeM was gone for a reasonable hour ( i think it was longer) before returning and finding CL waiting outside.

In actuality, if PB made up talking to him for that reason, and nobody else can verify they actually spoke to him that morning or who the call was from (towers would show if it was made from close to Bob's house)....it's possible he was gone between 12am (depends when he got off the phone with FH) and 12pm when JeM returned from....wherever he actually was.

I may be wrong but I really think I'm correct in thinking that even if someone blocks their number so it comes up as "private" on caller ID, the telephone company still has a record of what number that call came from and will give the information to LE if subpoena'd.

I have a feeling that many people may not realise this. Which could lead to shooting off of the mouth about little stretches and bends of the facts here and there.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I think the timeline may have shifted to between 12noon and 1pm because of something JuM learned from the housekeeper in the afternoon, that she hadn't known that morning.

I'm not sure though. To pinch someone else's quote, there's lots of smoke and mirrors here. I do think it's possible daughters were laboring under the same fog themselves - they were maybe hearing different stories via one sister from another family member, and at the same time were maybe not being totally upfront with each other.

I find it difficult to believe at least one sister says she has NEVER asked her brother in law about events. I cannot imagine being in Bob's house the day after he disappeared and not picking up the phone to call son in law, and go over what happened. I would have been looking for any and every clue myself. But I hang out on crime sleuthing websites - maybe she's just not that enquiring type?

Well, we've seen that there was a long history of secrets in the Harrod family that started before Bob and Georgia married. In some families, one just does not ask questions, particularly not questions that you may not really want the answer to.

For instance, my ex-husband's mother was a secret alcoholic for over 25 years, during my ex's entire childhood. He did not have a clue and neither did any of his three brothers. Secrecy reigned in that family.

I was always the odd one out since I do not have a good fix on what an appropriate or inappropriate question may be even at the best of times. I just ask. I'd go home from family dinners with my ankles bruised from my ex kicking me under the table.

To me, it seems very possible that there may have been some unwritten family code of secrecy.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Another letter's arrived now, but my eyes aren't up to anymore peering and deciphering!

No proof or details about calls is quite right, and one of the most noticeable things about Bob's case. Fontelle and daughter PB have given full details of their calls, but Bob is said to have had 'a lot' that Monday morning. The only ones police have mentioned are Fontelle's last, Sunday evening call to Bob, and the 10am Monday one that they seem to regard as his the last, verifiable call to/from Bob. That info seems to have been an accidental revelation by a journalist though.

The only reason I can think police have held the phone records so close to their chest is for the sake of any possible prosecution, in the future. It's a shame though, because it could really help pin down a time of disappearance.

The only

Ooooooh, I can think of a real good reason for LE not to release info about the phone records: leave everyone wondering just what calls were made when and watch to see what various people have to say about their phone activity with Bob that morning. If someone says something that LE knows from the records is impossible... well, that would be most interesting.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Totally off on a tangent but interesting anyway.

Placentia was the last place that Corrie Ten Boom lived, 20 years or so before Bob and Georgia moved there.

Corrie was a Dutch Christian whose family helped hide Jews from the Nazis. They were eventually arrested. She and her sister Betsie were sent to concentration camps and Betsie eventually died there. Corrie survived and returned to the Netherlands to carry out her sister's wishes: to open what we would now call a rehabilitation centre for Nazi sympathisers and concentration camp survivors who needed a place to heal after the war.

She wrote a great book called The Hiding Place about her family and the war that is well worth reading.

I'm not sure why she moved to Placentia at the end of her life but I imagine it may have had something to do with the warm climate. By that time she was in her late 80s and not in good health.

 

[sreshowtime]

aww,I did not realize Corrie ten Boom lived there. She was an absolutely wonderful woman ...I heard her speak at a Billy Graham crusade in Atlanta...must have been early 70's. She is a shining example of how we should treasure our elders- they have many valuable stories and examples to share with us, even as they age they are still to be loved and respected.

 

[zwiebel]

Lol sres, you should check out Bob's website sometime!

I would LOVE to know what Corrie sounded like to listen to in life - I've just heard video recordings. I'm terribly impressed by her bravery of course, in the Netherlands at a time when to speak out for victims - let alone help them - meant stepping outside the bounds of normal society and personal safety.

I am completely in awe of of what she did after the war though. Amongst all of it, that she shook hands with one of the worst guards in her concentration camp and forgave him, left me dumbfounded. He'd gone to hear her speak like you. This was the same camp her sister died in. I'm not made of such stuff and couldn't have done it, but she really was a lady who practised what she preached.

I think Corrie headed to CA to help spread the word more via film, but I haven't seen anything about why she specifically chose Placentia. Maybe because the houses there are just about the polar opposite of Dutch ones, with their endless, endless stairs?

(They are lovely houses, but I've learned to specify I can't cope with more than six flights if I book a guesthouse!)

Placentia really is honored to have her in its history, and should be very proud.