CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #7

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AmandaFast said:
Thanks :). I will get in touch with Cat again and see if any of it can be shared here

I did email Dragz about it but haven't heard back yet. Once I do I'll ask him to share my email on here if he can.


As for new theories... I'm inclinded more than ever to believe he walked off voluntarily. I think that despite the bit I found in BW that BW has a lot more to offer but a lot of time will need to be spent looking into it. In my opinion I think he may have gone off a few times for day trips that he didn't tell people about. I think something went wrong when he was out there.

I don't think injury is what's keeping him away. For me its definitely voluntary or foul play. When I say foul play I mean with someone he knew or was meeting up with not so much a RSO.

As I suggested to Dragz was that I think geotagging needs to be looked into for all of Bryce's Facebook and instagram photos as well as any he might be in on SD's page with him in them. I think this could establish whether or not he took other day trips and where he had gone previously. I think that if its voluntary he likely went somewhere he's been before, and if he uploaded any pictures while he was there the geotag would come into play.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
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BBM. Awesome idea! I wonder how you go about finding someone that does that? Computer specialist, I assume?

I'm so glad you were able to go to buttonwillow, and I hope you're able to share a bit with us.
 
The one thing that has hung me up on the idea of voluntarily leaving is how he seemed close to his folks and hasn't contacted them.

But the more I think about it, the more I can see it happening. I mean, he had just broken up with his girlfriend seemingly out of the blue, someone who everyone said he was madly in love with. So he was cutting ties (as someone wayyy back suggested). And so maybe he just decided to cut all ties including his folks.

That just "clicked" in my mind and seems like a real possibility. Have you ever heard someone say something, and you totally get what they're saying, but at some later moment in time, it just "clicks" in your mind and then you really really get it? Y'all were talking about cutting ties like 2 threads back and it finally sunk in to my head! LOL.
.
 
Sigh, I really really want Abigail and Bryce to come home safe, preferably today.
 
I read in several articles that when someone drowns in a lake their body will sink and continually move to the lowest part of the lake until it either reaches the lowest point or is caught up on debris. I also read that the temperature of the water at the lowest depth of some lakes is so cold that it prevents the decomposition that results in the build up of gasses that make a body surface (which is why there are so many well preserved bodies in Lake Tahoe.) Does anyone with any knowledge of water SAR know if this is true? Also, any way of figuring out the temperature of the lake at 330 feet if the water temperature on the surface is 70 degrees?
 
Voice4theSilent said:
I read in several articles that when someone drowns in a lake their body will sink and continually move to the lowest part of the lake until it either reaches the lowest point or is caught up on debris. I also read that the temperature of the water at the lowest depth of some lakes is so cold that it prevents the decomposition that results in the build up of gasses that make a body surface (which is why there are so many well preserved bodies in Lake Tahoe.) Does anyone with any knowledge of water SAR know if this is true? Also, any way of figuring out the temperature of the lake at 330 feet if the water temperature on the surface is 70 degrees?
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The two SAR missions I have been on for people who fell through the ice both floated up under the ice and were visible through the ice...in the middle of winter.
 
Hatfield said:
I understand your reasoning, but have to respectively disagree. Depending on the type of area that was dammed up and purposely flooded to create the lake, there could be plenty of structure below.

As an example, there is a Army Corp of engineers man made lake I have fished at that was built by flooding a very steep valley of woods that contained cottages and many trees. That lake is very deep and has so much structure in it, that you get snagged all the time when fishing. I actually lost an anchor while fishing there once because my anchor rope got hung up. I had to cut my anchor rope and leave my anchor down there...LOL. There are old cottages and many trees under the water. They had to buy out the cottages when they built the lake, and there was a lot of contreversy in getting the lake built to being with.

I am not familiar with the topography of the bottom of Lake Castaic though, and it could be quite different than that. But even if smooth, fisherman like to submerge old christmas trees and man-made structures to help fish congregate and create their own little fishing honey-holes.
So, there is always some possible objects and things for a body to get hung up on, even if a lake is known for a smooth bottom.
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Fished there for years it's California people don't make their own "fishing holes". Castaic back then had debris in it. Cans,coolers,tree branches etc...saw some tires a few times. I have gotten my line wrapped up on the bottom there are things that would trap a body in there. There are a lot of drop offs in castaic as well. I don't think there is a way to search the lake itself entirely. It's too deep and large.
 
shadowinlaguna said:
Fished there for years it's California people don't make their own "fishing holes". Castaic back then had debris in it. Cans,coolers,tree branches etc...saw some tires a few times. I have gotten my line wrapped up on the bottom there are things that would trap a body in there. There are a lot of drop offs in castaic as well. I don't think there is a way to search the lake itself entirely. It's too deep and large.
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I would love to get the opportunity to fish Castaic some day, as I remember some of the largest bass in the entire nation were caught in that lake. I remember old news articles about large bass being caught there. I just googled "big bass lake castaic", and sure enough there are many links and stories of the fame of the lake and big bass.

Regarding the man-made fish stuctures, if you google "man made fish structures", there are also many types and styles of them. Usually if any are ever put in a lake, it is done with the permission and cooperation of the lake's management. In my area, the lake management authority themselves buy these types of structures and submerge them. They provide fish a great way to thrive, reproduce and give safety for their babies until they grow large enough to not be eaten by other fish....LOL They are actually a good thing for the fish health in the lake.

I also remember a news story where they wanted people in my area to donate their natural christmas trees, so they would bundle + tie them up and place them in a local lake. I guess that is a cheaper way to create a nice structure for fish.
 
I'm no expert because I can't even swim and am afraid to go in water, but I think it would be very difficult to completely cover any large body of water in a single search.

There was a case here on WS I followed. A poor young man ( younger than Bryce) was showing off to his friends and jumped off a ferry. It was known exactly where he went into the water, it was right by a naval base, coastguards, and a town full of people with intimate knowledge of the water, but they still couldn't find him. There were many, many diver and boat/shoreline searches.

He was found by a member of the public, in the end. At the water's edge, not far from where he had gone in. It really saddened me because it was a young man's momentary foolishness but had such tragic consequences. His girlfriend ( 16 years old) saw him go into the water. She refused to give up hope until he was found, and when he was, had the grace and dignity of a woman twice her age.

There is something about the thought of people being lost in water that I really can't bear. I hope Bryce is not in that lake.
 
Guys, I got permission and have begun working on a video for Bryce. What I have so far is already bringing me to tears. I think it's going to be great. I'm waiting for more data from the family.
 
gitana1 said:
Guys, I got permission and have begun working on a video for Bryce. What I have so far is already bringing me to tears. I think it's going to be great. I'm waiting for more data from the family.
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THANK YOU GITANA1 :loveyou:
 
zwiebel said:
I'm no expert because I can't even swim and am afraid to go in water, but I think it would be very difficult to completely cover any large body of water in a single search.

There was a case here on WS I followed. A poor young man ( younger than Bryce) was showing off to his friends and jumped off a ferry. It was known exactly where he went into the water, it was right by a naval base, coastguards, and a town full of people with intimate knowledge of the water, but they still couldn't find him. There were many, many diver and boat/shoreline searches. .

He was found by a member of the public, in the end. At the water's edge, not far from where he had gone in. It really saddened me because it was a young man's momentary foolishness but had such tragic consequences. His girlfriend ( 16 years old) saw him go into the water. She refused to give up hope until he was found, and when he was, had the grace and dignity of a woman twice her age.

There is something about the thought of people being lost in water that I really can't bear. I hope Bryce is not in that lake.
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Re BBM
So many examples of people finally being found relatively close to where they were last seen.

That to me, is why I believe the focus could be in the general area of the vehicle. I totally agree the entire lake search would not be very feasable., but concentrating on the vehicle area and a certain radius out from there would be the recommended approach.

I am also a big believer in using dogs and I realize the dog searches were done with mixed results. The first dog search ended right at the water directly near the car, which is where I would mainly focus there.

They did do another bloodhound search and that seemed to show he may have walked along the waters edge and stopped on the dam, so IMO, that could be a 2nd place to try. The dog search link that someone kindly provided a few posts back indicated they thought he may have "backtracked" where he stopped on the dam. But he could have also entered the water there instead of backtracking. I dont necessarily agree that he backtracked as that may have been where he then went down to the water there. When walking on a dam, there is this weird "pull" or desire to go down to the water, so that could be a 2nd spot to try to search.

I am thankful that a lot of people have different ideas and opinions, as that is what makes WS so great. Everyone's ideas and opinions are important because he has to be found at some point. I sure hope he can be found soon. It has been way too long.
 
gitana1 said:
Guys, I got permission and have begun working on a video for Bryce. What I have so far is already bringing me to tears. I think it's going to be great. I'm waiting for more data from the family.
Click to expand...
Honestly, just the thought of you doing such a nice thing brings me to tears, Gitana1. Thank you!
 
Voice4theSilent said:
I read in several articles that when someone drowns in a lake their body will sink and continually move to the lowest part of the lake until it either reaches the lowest point or is caught up on debris. I also read that the temperature of the water at the lowest depth of some lakes is so cold that it prevents the decomposition that results in the build up of gasses that make a body surface (which is why there are so many well preserved bodies in Lake Tahoe.) Does anyone with any knowledge of water SAR know if this is true? Also, any way of figuring out the temperature of the lake at 330 feet if the water temperature on the surface is 70 degrees?
Click to expand...

Here is a great link that explains it well how temperature changes with depth. It does seem to indicate that generally the deeper the colder.

http://www.concord.org/~btinker/GL/web/water/water_temperatures.html
 
Wonder if any of those LE with side sonar to test would like to test it with a cruise across the lake....

That said, although I'm usually a pessimist, in this case I just can't get my brain to say that Bryce is dead. I have no idea why, but I'd really like to be right and that he's taken off on his own.
 
I found a great online Topographical map that shows the slope and depth of the lake at different points. Link below.

For those that are not familiar with Topo maps, whenever you see lines close together, that shows that the slope is very steep. When the lines are further apart, that indicates a gradual slope. Each line is at a certain elevation above sea level (example spillway elevation). From this topo map, you can navigate and see the different elevation lines in the water itself (as well as surrounding land). You have to look closely, but there is the actual elevation marked at certain spots on certain lines. From these certain elevations, you can tell the elevation of a certain line is.
The bolded lines are marked at 1400, 1600, 1800 feet elevations, so those bolded lines indicate a 200 foot drop between them. If you see the lines very close together, that is a steep drop. If the lines are further apart, it is more gradual slope.

The only thing is we would have to know precisely where his car was on this map to see if the slope is steep near where the car was.

From the looks of this lake in general, it seems to be very deep in spots. If I am reading the map right, the spillway elevation is the elevation on the dam which is 1515 feet above sea level. It seems like it is fairly easy to get to 100 feet deep and more in spots. There are some spots on the water that show it dropping at least 200 feet or more because the 1400 + 1600 foot marks are shown in the water area and that indicates 200 feet between them.


http://www.topoquest.com/map.php?lat=34.51944&lon=-118.60703&datum=nad83&zoom=4
 
Wolf Dreamer said:
Wonder if any of those LE with side sonar to test would like to test it with a cruise across the lake....

That said, although I'm usually a pessimist, in this case I just can't get my brain to say that Bryce is dead. I have no idea why, but I'd really like to be right and that he's taken off on his own.
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I really do hope you are right. There is something about this particular case that really is haunting me. I just feel so bad for Bryce and his family. He needs to be found.

You make a good point about "side sonar". The technological advances in the newer sonar equipment is just amazing these days. Some of them show tremendously accurate pictures of the bottom. This type of case would need some good elaborate sonar to help make the job of searching certain areas easier.

It is interesting that I just saw an Alaska TV show the other day where the Alaska LE used some excellent robotic cameras that actually took pictures of the bottom of the lake. Like a robotic submersable submarine sort of device. They located a snowmobiler that had broken through the ice and they knew about where he was. When the lake thawed, they were able to find him with that camera submersible, and actually used it to pull him to the surface by attaching regular fish hooks to the machine to pull him up.

The sonar pictures that first found the location was totally amazing and had incredible detail for a sonar picture. Once they found target areas using just the sonar, then they used the actual camera feature to literally see if that was indeed him.

It was a sad episode as the family had to come and identify him, but they were happy to get closure finally.

It is so tough because I really dont want him to be down there, but I want to be sure it is searched much more thoroughly than it has been so far. I think it is worthwhile if they could get some of that newer and better equipment like I saw on that TV show to help them search.
 
Trackergd said:
It appears that Lake Castiac was formed by putting a dam at the end of a canyon and was a replacement for the St Francis dam in the next canyon over that collapsed in 1928 killing 400 people. - Source Wikipedia.

This would suggest that the lake bottom is not man made, but rather a canyon with all the lips, ledges and tree debris inherent with a canyon topography and flora.
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I agree. Since the lake must have been a canyon or valley floor, there were probably trees (now tree stumps?) and rocks.

Supposedly, Lake Castiac is around 330 feet at it's deepest point. Here is a sad story, which took place at Lake Tahoe (natural lake), but a very deep lake too. Granted, this was a diver, who purposely dove far below the lake's surface, but it does suggest how difficult it is to find a body in such deep and massive waters.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/09/local/la-me-missing-diver-20110809
 
I have been following this case from day one since i live 5-10 minutes away from castaic. I strongly believe he is alive and well, just dealing with some personal issues. I was just in castaic and decided to drive by the lake and check things out as I haven't been there since like 2003 when I used to go to the lake with my ex boyfriends family. IMO there was a reason he drove that far out of the way. It's a long drive from the freeway and a lot of uphill road. Also confusing to find your way around, even in daylight. It's not an area that one would just happen to stumble upon. There are also always police patrolling the area. When I was a teenager we were hanging out at one of the lookout points in the late evening and got approached by the police. I also saw a police car driving down the hill as I was driving uphill. Just a little insight on the area based on my opinions :)
 
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