CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #1

[SCHMAE]

Thanks all for all your great posts. I've been reading for FOUR hours and got current !
Do we know for certain she was nude in the tank?
Do we know if her glasses were left in her room or are they missing?
Did her autopsy state no known COD, which means not drowning either ?
I am wondering if someone may have snatched her glasses off the bathroom counter or even off of her face for that matter to give her a big disadvantage in any type of a ' pursuit' knowing she would not see well.
TKS

 

[Canadianmom2three]

At first I was thinking she did NOT press the hold button on the elevator, but now after talking to my husband who is a maintenance man in a large building the hold button (not the open door button) will keep the elevator open for a few minutes. But it seems like she doesn't realize she pushed that button or that it keeps it open for that long?

Also, it does look like she is on the 15th floor, but I can't figure out why when she pressed the top button it lights up, but then goes out, as if she is on that floor. And from the picture of the elevator panel, that button appears to be 14.

One more thing, if there is a mirror on that floor, it seems as though sometime she is looking into the mirror from the elevator, and maybe she can see someone in the mirror? It looks like she is looking into the mirror when she steps backwards into the elevator, and then when she steps out it seems like she is hiding and then decides to try to get out without being seen, but stops? IMO

 

[Canadianmom2three]

I can't post the picture for some reason, but at the link below there are pictures of cameras on the ceiling of the Cecil hotel...looks like there are cameras in other areas of the hotel. I hope they have more footage that we don't know about that can lead them to someone or something.

http://earlysdawn.blogspot.ca/2012/10/cecil-hotel-in-los-angeles.html

 

[ThinkHard]

I believe the only reason police released that video was to give an "in action" view of Elisa, something more tangible than a "missing" poster. Given her strange behavior, I think LE was hoping the peculiarities might spark a memory in someone who had encountered her, or might encounter her in the future. And remember, at the time the video was released, LE believed she was likely somewhere in the area, not shut into a water tank on top of the hotel. I am willing to bet that if Elisa had been found the day after her disappearance and the case was purely a death investigation from the start, this video would never have seen the light of day.

I seriously doubt they were asking for the public's help in deciphering the way she punched the elevator buttons, or figuring out if her hand motions meant anything. I'm pretty sure they went over every possibility with a fine-toothed comb before releasing the video to the public, and what's there is there. To suggest there is someone off-camera who "knew a camera was there" is a bit of a reach in my opinion. Sure, it's possible she was engaged in a game with someone in another room or down the hall, but I think it is most likely the only person Elisa was engaged with in the video is herself. Unless you're in the camp that believes in ghosts and fairies and supernatural beings, looking for clues in that video (aside from assessing her psychological state) is an exercise in futility.

The video was released with the intention of helping people recognize a living Elisa, not figure out what happened to the murdered Elisa.

I beg to differ with your assertions that she was not talking to someone in that video. When she is to the left of the elavator from the inside looking out, and facing the right. Her hand gestures CLEARLY indicate, at least to me, that she is trying to communicate something to someone.

The hands flat facing the ground spreading out away from each other....the wave like motions she makes with her hands just after that.....those aren't just random hand gestures made for no reason, and they aren't dance moves either.

I question how lucid she may have been at the time, and perhaps her slight break from reality contributed to what she was trying to communicate, and what she was trying to communicate might have made sense to her, in a state under the influence of ambien, regardless if it made sense to the situation at hand. At least as far as she was concerned she was communicating a message to someone, whether there was in reality someone else standing there or not is a different issue.

We of course do not know if she had taken ambien. But she does appear to me like it is certainly a possibility.

If this video was taken at 2am on the 1st of February, it would certainly account for why she would have wandered out of her room at that time, without an apparent purpose, and without her glasses.

I have taken ambien, and though never slept walk, have had entire conversation with people just 20 minutes after taking one that I have no recollection of. I have personally seen friends who have slept walked on ambien, and been sort of normal but also not really making sense, like waking up in the middle of the night to make a tuna fish sandwich, and then telling me they HAD to make a tuna fish sandwich because they couldn't go to class hungry, and there mom would be mad at them for not eating one right now. No joke. Ambien does weird stuff to people's states of mind.

Here are a couple articles and links that discuss crazy ambien sleep walking stories;

http://www.naturalnews.com/019413_Ambien_drug_side_effects.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/13/AR2006031301317.html


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/opinions/8670/

 

[archivist]

I remembered a weird incident from late December, when someone who was apparently a resident of one of the fancy apartments on Spring Street (a couple of blocks from the Cecil) came naked out of the lobby and attacked a car. There is video. The buzz at the time was that he may have voluntarily taken a drug that had unexpected behavioral consequences. Just putting this here for consideration in light of the theory that Miss Lam may have been intoxicated on something she picked up in the neighborhood.

Also, the historic hotel crime tour discussed in the CNN article is Esotouric's Hotel Horrors & Main Street Vice, next offered on Saturday, March 2.

 

[AznDud333]

after digging on her twitter, it seems she has a instagram account under the name of
moulesmariniere
so it seems her two most common used user names are
lambetes
and.. moulesmariniere

I can't post the picture for some reason, but at the link below there are pictures of cameras on the ceiling of the Cecil hotel...looks like there are cameras in other areas of the hotel. I hope they have more footage that we don't know about that can lead them to someone or something.

http://earlysdawn.blogspot.ca/2012/10/cecil-hotel-in-los-angeles.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jx9274bFs-8/UHmVz5G9Q9I/AAAAAAAABGA/yC2-_FT0E_U/s1600/untitled-5.jpg

this picture?

I beg to differ with your assertions that she was not talking to someone in that video. When she is to the left of the elavator from the inside looking out, and facing the right. Her hand gestures CLEARLY indicate, at least to me, that she is trying to communicate something to someone.

The hands flat facing the ground spreading out away from each other....the wave like motions she makes with her hands just after that.....those aren't just random hand gestures made for no reason, and they aren't dance moves either.

I question how lucid she may have been at the time, and perhaps her slight break from reality contributed to what she was trying to communicate, and what she was trying to communicate might have made sense to her, in a state under the influence of ambien, regardless if it made sense to the situation at hand. At least as far as she was concerned she was communicating a message to someone, whether there was in reality someone else standing there or not is a different issue.

We of course do not know if she had taken ambien. But she does appear to me like it is certainly a possibility.

If this video was taken at 2am on the 1st of February, it would certainly account for why she would have wandered out of her room at that time, without an apparent purpose, and without her glasses.

I have taken ambien, and though never slept walk, have had entire conversation with people just 20 minutes after taking one that I have no recollection of. I have personally seen friends who have slept walked on ambien, and been sort of normal but also not really making sense, like waking up in the middle of the night to make a tuna fish sandwich, and then telling me they HAD to make a tuna fish sandwich because they couldn't go to class hungry, and there mom would be mad at them for not eating one right now. No joke. Ambien does weird stuff to people's states of mind.

Here are a couple articles and links that discuss crazy ambien sleep walking stories;

http://www.naturalnews.com/019413_Ambien_drug_side_effects.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/13/AR2006031301317.html


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/opinions/8670/

does anyone know if she was taking any meds? insomnia is one of the symptoms of taking ambien, and she happens to have a lot of it according to twitter
https://twitter.com/lambetes
just scroll down, ctrl+f and type insomnia

 

[dotr]

hey check this out I think I found a pic of the 15th floor right across from the elevator

this place does not look so bad by its photos!

go to the gallery on top and look at the pics It has the 15th floor and I think this is where she was in that elevator

http://thececilhotel.com/

Thanks, but careful with link - my bitdefender gave warning, blocked site.

 

[Buckeye lady]

She could have overdosed on her own medicine. She could have forgot she took it already and took it again by mistake. Anything is possible. Sometimes they give people anti convulsants for psychiatric medicine and I know with that if you drink alcohol it will make you real drunk real fast. We had a friend who took psychiatric medicine and he also used to drink a lot and possibly smoked pot. He died at only thirty-three of a heart attack. I think you can't mix anything with psychiatric meds. It can be fatal.

 

[SCHMAE]

I cannot believe the hotel management could not allow LE to search every single room in the building when they searched " some " rooms several days ago. It sounds like it's possible she may have been alive in a room on floor 5 ( where the big boom was heard by a guy on floor 4 ) for several days prior to getting to the roof right? These people don't own those rooms. They should not be able to refuse to have their rooms searched when the hotel owners say it is ok in a case of a missing person. Sickening to think she may have been alive when police searched the building Or did I misunderstand something?

 

[ThinkHard]

after digging on her twitter, it seems she has a instagram account under the name of
moulesmariniere
so it seems her two most common used user names are
lambetes
and.. moulesmariniere






http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jx9274bFs-8/UHmVz5G9Q9I/AAAAAAAABGA/yC2-_FT0E_U/s1600/untitled-5.jpg

this picture?




does anyone know if she was taking any meds? insomnia is one of the symptoms of taking ambien, and she happens to have a lot of it according to twitter
https://twitter.com/lambetes
just scroll down, ctrl+f and type insomnia

I don't think it has been reported with certainty that she was on any rx meds. But it has been loosely reported she suffered from mild depression. Sometimes people with mild depression and even anxiety, in addition to possibly taking an SSRI, if sleep is an issue for them will also be written an rx for ambien.

I can't speak as the health care system in Canada, but I know in the US ambien is a relatively cheap rx, and is Rx's for it are written quite frequently. Ambien of course being the brand name, not the drug itself. Other sleeping pills like lunesta, can have similar sleep walking effects though it is claimed to be less habit forming. Also I feel its possible that she could have had an rx for sleeping medication without her parents being aware of it.

To me in the video if she is on anything, she really seems under the influence of a sleeping medication such as ambien. It was my very first thought when watching the video the first time, and didnt deviate even after the 10th viewing. I don't think she is under the influence of an illegal drug either taken willingly or slipped into something she ate or drank.

My guess is she was sleep walking under the influence of a sleeping medication, and became an easy target for a mentally unstable individual working for or staying at the Cecil hotel.

 

[SCHMAE]

Also someone posted way back that there were fire escape ladders on the outside of the building so that a locked door up top does not necessarily keep people from getting up there. Was that a rumor ? I'm trying to find pics to back that up .
Another thing is even though the door up top was supposed to be locked, who's to say it is all the time. Maybe the service man with the key goes up for a smoke or 'what not' and forgets to close it or maybe he leaves it unlocked for a friend in the building sometimes to go up and think, drink , make out with a lover... just speculating. But I think we all know places that are lock & key 24/ 7 are not always secured every minute of every day for whatever reason. If it were locked down tight then only someone with a key could be responsible and clearly they 've not arrested that person so it makes me think it's just not locked all the time.

 

[Marlon]

<modsnip>

Rip Elisa

 

[Joe Friday]

At this link (expedia nz), there is a review which mentions that they lock the stairwell...

http://www.expedia.co.nz/Los-Angeles-Hotels-Cecil-Hotel.h920349-p22.Hotel-Reviews

Don't know if this has been posted yet but at the link you posted from Expedia there is also a review that says only one elevator works and the elevator takes 15-20 minutes to make it's rounds. No dates on these reviews that I can find so I don't know how long ago this was. This might explain the delay in the elevator door to close. Although, once the door did close after Elisa quit hitting buttons, the elevator seemed to work just fine.

“Disgusting little rat hole”

BEWARE!! NO VISITORS ALLOWED! worst experience ever!!! To start off they have two elevators but only one of them works.... the other one takes about 15 mins to make its rounds and I am not even kidding. We tried to take the stairs at night because we didn't want to wait 15-20 mins for the elevator but they lock the door!!! Aside from this, my friends and I were meeting up to get ready to head out for an event that night but they would not allow ANY visitors upstairs and the security guard will follow you around.

http://www.expedia.co.nz/Los-Angeles-Hotels-Cecil-Hotel.h920349-p22.Hotel-Reviews

On a side note locking the doors to the stairwells as mentioned by the person posting the review would be a violation of fire code. I also think locking the door to the roof would also be a violation of the fire code. There is a fire escape you can use to get to the roof but if someone entered the stairwell leading to the roof during a fire and the door was actually locked and needed a key to open than that person would become trapped. There might be one of those panic bars on door leading to the roof that will sound an alarm like pictured below, essentially the door is locked from the outside, but anyone could gain access to the roof from the inside. From the comments about everything else in this hotel being broken, why would anyone think the alarm on the door would work. I sure hope the fire department does a complete inspection on that building after all of this.

JMO

 

[kenmore]

Also someone posted way back that there were fire escape ladders on the outside of the building so that a locked door up top does not necessarily keep people from getting up there. Was that a rumor ? I'm trying to find pics to back that up .
Another thing is even though the door up top was supposed to be locked, who's to say it is all the time. Maybe the service man with the key goes up for a smoke or 'what not' and forgets to close it or maybe he leaves it unlocked for a friend in the building sometimes to go up and think, drink , make out with a lover... just speculating. But I think we all know places that are lock & key 24/ 7 are not always secured every minute of every day for whatever reason. If it were locked down tight then only someone with a key could be responsible and clearly they 've not arrested that person so it makes me think it's just not locked all the time.

There have been articles citing a fire escape as a potential way to get on the roof without tripping the alarm. One such article is linked below:

http://news.yahoo.com/body-found-la-hotel-water-tank-may-missing-010024324.html

The more I read about Elisa, the more I believe she went to that roof willingly, either by herself or with someone else. After seeing the photos of the tanks, it is just too far-fetched for me to believe she was carried up those steep ladders and "dumped" there, as hard as it is to believe someone could end up in a water tank in any other fashion.

Have we confirmed that the 15th floor is the floor on which she was recorded in the elevator? It looks like it from the Cecil website photos, and the other floors look to be vastly different colors judging by what we see at the end of the surveillance video when the doors are opening and closing. Is the 15th floor the highest accessible floor in the Cecil?

 

[sherbetjello]

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/bodies-recovered-from-water/

I think I learned about the subject above from a case here.
So, the reason why they can't determine the COD, I believe, has something to do with the idea that she really was in that water tank for two-weeks.

I am a firm believer that she didn't go up there alone. She was there 3 days before ending up on the roof -- she had to of made a friend, or overheard staff/patrons, and got up there.

If she was naked, in no way in hell was this an accident - sorry. If it was, gonna take a crazy long time to convince me of that.

Have Elisa's parents stated now, after finding her, why she was in California? I haven't read that, and it was super secretive when she was missing.

 

[SCHMAE]

I've seen 15th floor listed and over but I'm only counting 13 floors PLUS the ground floor, so total of 14 unless I'm not seeing right. I do know some hotels, especially older ones, may skip the 13th floor and call it the 14th floor, but other than that I do not see 15 floors.

 

[kenmore]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but at the link you posted from Expedia there is also a review that says only one elevator works and the elevator takes 15-20 minutes to make it's rounds. No dates on these reviews that I can find so I don't know how long ago this was. This might explain the delay in the elevator door to close. Although, once the door did close after Elisa quit hitting buttons, the elevator seemed to work just fine.

The security tape lags and "skips" forward at about the 2:58 mark, about 25 seconds after Elisa leaves the view of the camera. This is because the CCTV system is motion-activated, and shuts off when no motion is detected for what seems to be about 30 seconds. The camera stays on for the next minute (until the tape is cut off) because its doors are opening and closing and activating the motion sensors, keeping the camera running.

I am fairly certain that Elisa hit the "hold" button when she first entered and started jabbing buttons, which caused it to stay open for about five minutes. Five minutes after she first entered the elevator, the doors closed and the CCTV kicked back on. We see the first 2 minutes or so because Elisa is moving within the camera's view and the CCTV is activated.

There is no mystery man controlling the elevator doors.

 

[AnonymousD]

Welcome to all the new members I've seen posting!

All you 99 guests, feel free to join in the conversation! We'd love to have you.


:welcome5:

 

[dotdren]

I can say for sure, it doesn't look like she was on drugs. Being Chinese, I can only say she acted like a typical Chinese in such situation.
1) she goes into elevator expecting it to work.
2) elevator doesn't work, she gets a bit scare. (like "zhong guai lor"--translate wtf is there a freaking ghost, it's a chinese thing)
3) goes out checking if someone is there.
4) waves the hand near the elevator door to check if the sensor is jacked up.
5) finally gives up.

I can't figure out why she was counting

 

[CuriousB]

Hi all,

just had to register and share some of my thoughts. I don't know if I'm allowed to attach photos yet. But I took a screen shot of the floor plan in the video in margarita25's post 842. They're not exactly enhanced, but hopefully they'll help explain my analysis. (Screen shot-A is the image, Screen shot-B has some labeling from my analysis.)

I have never been to this hotel, so my analysis may be wrong! But hopefully it can be helpful.

Analysis of Hazel's videos in posts #860 (Vid 1) and #867 (Vid 2)
- The hotel is shaped like an E
- The three "wings" are separated by a door, that may be open or closed.
(Vid 1 3:02 closed. Vid 2 various floors, open)
- Vid 1: daytime. Vid 2, night time
- The elevator is in the middle wing (2:52-2:56, Vid 1)
- There are TWO sets of stairs (Vid 2).

Relating this to the Elevator Video (left-right relative to camera):
- The kitchen is to camera's left.
- There are two sets of room hallways to the right (the middle wing and one of the outer wings) and the other outer wing is to the camera's left
- It is POSSIBLE FOR SOMEBODY TO GO FROM ONE SIDE OF THE THE ELEVATOR TO THE OTHER WITHOUT BEING SEEN BY THE CAMERA, by using the stairs and going through a different floor. The stairwells are clearly not locked at least for the main floors.

-----

From googling images of the hotel and its roof, it seems that only one of the stairs lead to the roof ( the one to the elevator camera's left). But there are fire escape ladders that also appear to lead up there. The fire escape ladders are at the end of at least one of the outer wings. (Hard to find pictures of the whole roof -- most of them focus on the water tanks area.)