CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #1

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You know, I think you're right, my brain so fried, sorry, going crosseyed...after looking at it again, I think she's in the right, lol.

Yea I think so, I believe the side the panel is on indicates which side of the elevator it is. Regardless though it really seems as though there are two people in on this the whole time. One on the left and one on the right.

Which brings me back to the lapse in the tape as the door is closing that appears edited. Whats that all about? Why is the time stamp so blurry?
 
Also, if she was transported to the tank at a later time (meaning the roof is not where she initially met her demise), then someone with access to a luggage cart, housekeeping / laundry cart or room service cart could've used it for at least part of the journey (and access the service elevators).

This is why a blueprint is so important, I want to see where the service elevators fit into all of this.
 
You know, I think you're right, my brain so fried, sorry, going crosseyed...after looking at it again, I think she's in the right, lol.
If that's the case, she wouldn't be looking out to see if someone is pressing the button on the wall to hold the elevator. I can't find the pictures of the elevators now. Are there two buttons (up and down) on the wall between the two elevators, or does each elevator have it's own set of buttons on the outside wall (to the right)?

I'm so confused now!
 
Okay, I found the video of the hotel Hazel posted. There is one button panel on the wall between the two elevators. If Elisa was in the right-hand elevator, she must have heard someone in the hallway on her right. If she did come from the kitchen, which was to her left, I don't think she encountered anyone threatening there because she was concerned about what was happening to her right. If there's no kitchen on her floor, that would explain why Elisa was on a different floor.

I also noticed that the person who filmed the video used the stairs at one point, so the stairs must be accessible during the day at least. If they do keep the doors locked at night and if it's true that the video with Elisa was at 2 AM, then she was trapped on that floor. Again, I wonder about the other elevator. Did she unsuccessfully try to use it first? Was it blocked off, with an "out of order" sign?
 
Hi again,

WARNING: Wall of text.........:truce:

as this case is gaining some attention where I'm from, I managed to get a few friends together, 5 ladies (ages 19-42) and 3 men (25, 34, 57 yrs old) to view it and give me immediately their opinions without thinking too much into it.

I haven't the slightest idea as I said earlier if Elisa was borned in Canada and stayed there all her life or if she moved there as a kid or in her teens which might mean she could have developed some asian mannerism and characteristics which seems to differ from the american standard of how typically girls behave.

Heck, I'm not even sure the elevator cctv means anything or is related to how she died but that aside, this is just our pov on the elevator scene itself. We have no idea if this is a prelude or even a related part to her final resting place and what happened to her.

Keeping purely to the elevator clip itself, we'll try to provide an alternate asian point of view (not that it matters if she was born in Canada and stayed there her entire life) hoping it helps in some way.

The below is some sort of a summary on how the 8 ppl above from ages 19-57 thought she was doing in the audio less cctv clip.


1. We felt that she entered the lift normally in a nonchalent manner as any of us would. normal pace, perhaps a bit brisk but nothing out of the ordinary.

2. She stares hard at the buttons trying to figure out the floor number she wants, finds it and presses it and then stands upright and moves to the back of the lift leaning again nonchalently against it, expecting the door to close. nothing out of the ordinary here we all agreed.

From here onwards are our assumptions since no sound can be heard and these assumptions are from what we see locally in our country and how we wouldve reacted. It might be diferent from how most of you might react but hey, that's why I said I'm sharing our local asian point of view on her body language.

3. A few seconds go by and while the elevator door does not begin to close she probably hears somebody calling her name or some sound coming from the right. A brief hesitation on her part and then she ducks out quickly looks to the right to see whoever was calling her or what sound that was. At the same time she was wondering why the door is not closing.

4. She then retreats quickly back into the elevator. Some of us here believed she saw someone or something. Others felt that she didn't see anything or anyone and was spooked by the noise or the calling of her name from the right.

5. some of us insists that she didnt see anything but heard a voice calling her name which spooked her leading her to press her body tactically against the inside of the elevator and then quickly readjusting trying to get the best tactically safe position in anticipation to see if whatever was calling her would suddenly appear past the elevator or enter the elevator. (sort of like pressing oneself against a wall hoping that an enemy would sort of miss seeing u and run right pass you.)

6. The others suggested that she was playing hide and seek cheekily with the boyfriend or some new love but decided against it when they realised that her facial expression was gloom throughout. Hide and seek games would have giggles, smiles or laughs. not a gloomy straight face as shown in the video.

7. She stood very still pressed against the inside of the elevator for a few good seconds expecting something to go past her or enter the elevator. Nothing happens. Heart racing she has to know whats going on...........

8, Elisa side steps then approaches the door of the open elevator very carefully again this time, head peering out first but feet still firmly within the elevator as somehow being inside the elevator gives her a sense of safety.

9. Elisa head out, peers to the right AGAIN. seeing nothing, she turns her head from right to straight ahead and then looking to the left. Her head looks left for quite a few seconds. We reckon she didn't see anyone or anything either. Her feet were still in the elevator. She withdraws her head, still standing within the elevator.

10. She probably couldnt have a 100% view of the entire walkway from left to right. Some of us opined that throughout the entire time, there was some noise or perhaps someone calling her name which resulted in her being afraid yet curious. If she saw something she wouldve made a run for it. In this case, a sound but nothing seen yet.

11.At this point she was part spooked and part exasperated. Who's playing such a lousy joke it seems. Also, the sound or voice calling her name suddenly changes to emanate from the left. She finally decides she should just clear this up once and for all and decides to step, 1 foot out first off the elevator. She looks left immediately after stepping out this time, which makes us think that the sound now came from the left instead of the original right.

12. staring for awhile and seeing nothing she hops out of the elevator , sort of stamping her feet (kids sometimes do that to scare out cats, dogs, even lizards etc hiding in corners or crevices) in which we all unanimously agreed was an action which we ourselves wouldve done when we decide to end a game of hide and seek or give up in exasperation signalling that whatever game it was, she's done playing it. Sort of like, hop out, make a noise, ok i'm here. i give up u can see me now u come out too and stop this nonsense whoever u are. She was probably expecting someone to appear by now. a practical joker perhaps.

13. She sidesteps to the left looks straight ahead, sees nothing and retreats back into the elevator. An action in which we have noticed so far that being in the elevator has provided her with some sense of safety.

14. At this point she probably heard the noise or voice again, this time from the right. she steps out of the elevator and immediately looks to the right and upwards to the right. All these probably unconsciously moving to the left indicating that whatever it was had to be coming from the right. The time on the youtube video now is 1.00min-1,03

15. She disappears momentarily out of view as she keeps moving left little by little. She comes back into view and we see a little of her right side and her right arm, shoulders hanging loosely slightly relaxed. In a few moments we see her right arm raised. as she appears more into the view of the camera she now has both her hands on her head (at this point we assume thatthe raised arm seconds earlier was actually both her hands on her head). Her body language was one that most of us agreed would be something we did when we saw or was faced with something we couldnt see or couldnt understand that mystified or frightened us. Her gestures seemed to convey in our opinion "I've had enough of this nonsense! this is scaring me. I'm getting out of here."

16. She enters the lift and this time she presses the numbers on the panel more furiously than the 1st time. Some real panic is seen here imho. she's pressing every and any button she can see/feel.

17. Amdist the frantic pressing, she suddenly calms down and walks steadily out of the elevator. We unanimously think that this action would mean she hears a familiar voice or the prankster who might be someone she knows say something like "ok ok game over. no more jokes. it's just me." she walks out, flips her hair in relief (the ladies agreed that the flipping did looked like a sense of relief ve the one earlier with both hands on the head that displayed frustration and exasperation.)

18. We notice she was still naturally wary and although she turned to the right to face what would be someone familiar, she walked diagonally exiting the lift towards the left. She takes a close look and recognises and confirms its the person she knows.

19. She immediately lets loose a barrage of words half lamenting half accusing him of playing such a screwed up joke on her. She probably felt a mix of relief and anger. She has her hand on her chest and then a palms up hands wide open action probably saying "did you know you almost scared me to death?" and "what the hell were u thinking pulling off such a prank!!??" We then notice that she became more composed and stood properly, being less animated and spoke with her hands mostly at her sides. She then started raising her left hand counting probably saying things like "one, u know i can't see very well, two u know i get scared easily, three u know i dont like such pranks etc and yet u play such a stupid joke on me!" most agreed that the animated counting and bending of the knees were nothing more than physical gestures to reinforce her points and that she was still shaken. adrenaline leftover maybe.

20. The final part was something that the ladies felt was nothing more than Elisa, after giving a piece of her mind to the prankster flipping her hair and walking off back to her room or in the opposite direction of the prankster. The guys felt that someone could be yanking her hair. However one of the ladies pointed out that if her hair was yanked, there would be some sort of losing her balance, losing her footing byt if u look at her feet as she walked away, it did seem to be in a calm natural motion.


All in, we did not think that the elevator clip was particularly relevant except perhaps the identity of the prankster?

Otherwise, we did not dwell into issues such as why did the elevator door stay open so long etc. We simply focussed on her actions and behaviour and asked ourselves if we saw this clip locally, what would have crossed our minds.

I hope our humble insights have helped in some little way.

sorry for wall of text again.
 
Fantastic post, wilbee! Thanks to all of you for your insights!
 
I'm really curious what they'll find if/when they take prints off the access door and tank exterior. Does anyone have any account of whether they found her in the tank with the top access hatch closed or open? Also to the point of the video- does she appear to be counting to anyone else, when she is standing outside the doors partially in view? I see her bend at the knees as if to emphasize, at the same time bringing her hands together as if to count on her fingers in an exaggerated way-- there is rhythm here, like she's listing something, or counting.
 
Hi again,

All in, we did not think that the elevator clip was particularly relevant except perhaps the identity of the prankster?

Love the effort put into that post. But really I have to say it ... Is that what you call murderers in asian culture? Pranksters?

Whoever she is hiding from is definitely not playing.

There is probably two guys both with guns. She might have even caught glimpse of a gun in the moments before entering the lift I bet. Its the only explanation why she is so cooperative.
 
Unless they find a clue or arrest a murderer soon, it looks like we'll be speculating on this for quite some time.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0222-hotel-body-20130222,0,4318339.story

More tests need to be performed before a cause of death can be determined for the Canadian tourist whose body was found inside a water tank atop a downtown Los Angeles hotel, coroner's officials said Thursday...Los Angeles County coroner's spokesman Ed Winter said the autopsy was completed. He would not say whether the medical examination found visible signs of trauma on the body.
 
I'm really curious what they'll find if/when they take prints off the access door and tank exterior. Does anyone have any account of whether they found her in the tank with the top access hatch closed or open? Also to the point of the video- does she appear to be counting to anyone else, when she is standing outside the doors partially in view? I see her bend at the knees as if to emphasize, at the same time bringing her hands together as if to count on her fingers in an exaggerated way-- there is rhythm here, like she's listing something, or counting.

Yes! It appears that she is!
Like she is making a point, maybe stating why she dosent want to be there with him! One your high, two your rude, three I dont want to be here,
who knows! She wants out of there and is blocked as I see it.
 
I still wonder if her hand motions are from having her eyes covered by the perp, or being restrained in some way. I think the media is doing a huge disservice to her memory by saying that her behaviour is mentally ill; if I was being stalked in a creepy hotel with a misbehaving elevator you can be sure I'd be acting a bit 'weird'.

Surely they have surveillance in the hallways, though? Or do they not have any, does the Cecil turn a blind eye to crime? Poor Elisa, I can't imagine the grief her family is enduring right now. IMO it's crystal clear that this is a case of foul play (like others have said, if she had gone in the tank herself the COD would've been confirmed as drowning). Elisa and her family deserve justice.
 
Yeah I saw that too, but that would mean the person would have to climb a fire escape to the roof with her (roof access is locked), avoid tripping the alarm, carry her up to the tank, open it, and dump her in. Seems like a lot of effort and luck would have to be involved for a non employee to pull that off.

On a side note, please excuse me for sounding super morbid but...one thing that makes me think it was an employee is the fact that the "whole" body was put in the tank. It would have been much easier to carry her up to the roof and tank ladder if this wasn't the case. However, a hotel employee who is at work would find it very difficult to explain away any bloodstains on his clothing and extra time lost. He would have to go home and change without people noticing anything. Another guest could just change the clothes immediately, and ditch?

Sorry, I'm just catching up here.
It's pretty difficult to dismember a body, can't be done with a regular knife, one would have to have a big cleaver or something similar to cut through the joints. Plus it takes time. And how is he going to walk around in the hotel with a huge meat cleaver or saw? So I don't think someone would take a chance on being caught dismembering a body anywhere in the hotel or even on the roof. And the blood would be all over the place.
The quickest and simplest means of disposal was exactly what he did... put her body in the tank. One strong guy could throw a body over their shoulder and make it up that ladder, it wouldn't be easy but it's doable. If he gets his thrills murdering young women, his adrenaline would be in high gear.
 
wow 6-8 weeks is a helluva lot of time considering modern technology. I'm not in this field. can anyone in the related field advise if 6-8 weeks is the fastest they can go in 2013?

or would this just be filed as another normal routine case where you take your number and wait in line to be tested..........

It's not uncommon for it to take that long, depends on which lab they send the samples to. FBI can sometimes put a rush on it but they won't unless there is very good reason. In simple terms, they can't rush every homicide case, there are just too many. Basically, yes, it's like getting put on a list, they get to it when they can.
 
Love the effort put into that post. But really I have to say it ... Is that what you call murderers in asian culture? Pranksters?

Whoever she is hiding from is definitely not playing.

There is probably two guys both with guns. She might have even caught glimpse of a gun in the moments before entering the lift I bet. Its the only explanation why she is so cooperative.

hi there,

u could have misunderstood me. None of us know for sure if her death was right after the elevator footage or if it was much later, probably even days later.

The elevator footage could be nothing more than a glimpse of some part of the stay in the Cecil but that is something I wouldn't wanna haphazard a guess at this point in time.

What I was trying to share was that if we, a group of asians saw a silent clip like the one on Elisa Lam not knowing that she ended up dead 3 weeks later after what was possibly the only clip of her before her official disappearance,

what would we think? What would be the 1st thoughts that came into our minds based on her actions in the elevator footage alone. We chose to put aside other variables such as how the elevator stayed open, if there was a hold button etc and instead tried to focus on her actions alone and try to share what we thought if this was say, for example, a footage from singapore or taiwan or malaysia.

It's sad that a beautiful life was snuffed out prematurely just like that and our point of view is hardly a be all and end all. In fact it could be far from the truth. However, with enough people discussing the clip from the oft discussed attackers point of view, we instead saw it as nothing more than a prank (I say this based on the actions of the elevator actions alone and not that she is now no longer around.)

We see many such pranks that scare the crap out of others from where we are and a few of them do have similar traits as shown in the video. I apologise if my alternate point of view did cause any distress to anyone but I assure you we too just want to do our little bit from far away, beginning with a point of view not many have discussed thus far.
 
It's not uncommon for it to take that long, depends on which lab they send the samples to. FBI can sometimes put a rush on it but they won't unless there is very good reason. In simple terms, they can't rush every homicide case, there are just too many. Basically, yes, it's like getting put on a list, they get to it when they can.

would this be considered a high profile case in your country? After all, I read somewhere that because it crosses borders it becomes some sort of an international case. With all the coverage, if this case is not high profile enough to rush the result, what sort of case would be high profile enough for them to speed things up?
 
I have watched the video, and I agree with the idea that EL is having a psychotic break or is under the influence. She wavers several times like she is having a hard time holding herself up, and she rocks back in forth in a way I've done a couple times in my life when really drunk. That, combined with pushing so many buttons, no evidence of a second person, and the bizarre box step she takes to step out of the elevator, make me certain in my opinion (JMO) that she is drunk or experiencing psychosis.

The fact that no one knows why she took off on this sudden journey and that she has a bipolar diagnosis support this opinion, to me. If she has mental health issues (which she blogged herself), she might have been feeling very unstable while alone in a bad area of a new city. I know many people have reported feeling unsafe at the Cecil.

It's either that, or like many young people EL is just drunk. That girl is under the influence of something in that video.
 
Sorry, I'm just catching up here.
It's pretty difficult to dismember a body, can't be done with a regular knife, one would have to have a big cleaver or something similar to cut through the joints. Plus it takes time. And how is he going to walk around in the hotel with a huge meat cleaver or saw? So I don't think someone would take a chance on being caught dismembering a body anywhere in the hotel or even on the roof. And the blood would be all over the place.
The quickest and simplest means of disposal was exactly what he did... put her body in the tank. One strong guy could throw a body over their shoulder and make it up that ladder, it wouldn't be easy but it's doable. If he gets his thrills murdering young women, his adrenaline would be in high gear.

ah yes, almost every dismembering case did involve some sort of chopper or machete like weapon. Blood splatter would be incredible too although this can be minimized by laying some plastic covering on the ground and the walls.......that's another story altogether.

The thing that makes me uneasy is that some assumes that she was dead and in the tank on or thereabouts after her official disappearance on 31 Jan. And the time of her body's discovery was 19 Feb. A good 3 weeks.

Affected Water pressure complaints came in only as late as 15 feb if I remember reading it correctly someplace.

Locally, we had a similar case and the body was barely in the tank for 24 hours when decomposition began. It was serious enough to discolor the water, smell putrid and even cause an unnatural foaminess to the water which led to the police checking the tank and finding the body.

Granted that we have temperatures as high as 30 degrees celsius and a relative humidity of 97% thereabouts.

Elisa Lam's body would have lasted longer in the tank but not that much longer. A week at most before similar signs appeared in the water.

Could Elisa be held for up to 2 weeks in one of the rooms against her will, that was what really drew me to register here and share.

Many assume that Elisa died on 31 Jan and ended up in the tank the same day and stayed there till the discovery of her body on 19 Feb.

What I'm trying to say is that it's highly unprobable. But because I am not medical expert I can only refer to similar crimes and try to draw from the facts of the case.
 
OOPS! DOUBLE POST! SORRY! :blushing:

Very interesting comments regarding the ladders (both inside and out) for the water tanks...

In reference to the cases of bodies found in water tanks in other states/countries (India and NY, I believe?)....

I wonder if it was ever determined how the bodies found in the water tanks were placed in the tanks by those perp(s)...

It does seem like a daunting task....But I think this scenario makes more sense than Elisa climbing into a water tank by her own volition...

I wonder how Elisa would even KNOW there were water tanks on the roof... I have read posters here that were not aware of water tanks on the roofs of hotels... And I know I had no idea of such...

JMO

An alrmed locked roof top hatch, yet graffitti on the tank, doesnt appear to old in this pic. any chance of alternate access to the roof top and there is a higher portion to the roof which looks like one could either jump down or lower another to the top of the tanks. Interestingly nothing conclusive as to cause of death in the autopsy indicates a chemically related death.
I'm thinking if lithium levels can be tested post mortem they will definetly conclude that she was suffering from schizophrenia, paranoid dillusion as seen in the elevator, along with the history of depression this makes for a very dangerous combination making her very vulnerable to acting upon hallucination in extremely erratic unpredictable ways and quite possibly easily manipulated. With the latch of the tank closed though I don't beleive she took it upon herself to hide in the tank but the possibility of someone suggesting this is plausible. I feel hotel staff likely had sufficient time to watch her mental state decline and a member may have well seen it as an opportunity to abuse the situation.
 
Can anyone tell me if an autopsy would determine if EL had died from drowning alone? Or would they assume any water in her lungs could've happened post-moterm and automatically send for additional tests?

Just wondering if EL could've been put into the tank alive (maybe alive and drugged) and drown because she couldn't reach to get the hatch open. Again, I really wish LE would say whether or not the hatch was closed when the hotel employee went up to the roof to investigate.
 
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