californiared3
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She mentions "Drive" pilgrimage on the postcard.....anyone watch that movie?
CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2
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She mentions "Drive" pilgrimage on the postcard.....anyone watch that movie?
skyfitsheaven
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My post says analyzing the trip is more useful than the video. In a previous post, I've said we are focusing on the video too much. Perhaps re-read my post again
If you're travelling by yourself, going out to a bar or a club to see a band is not out of the ordinary. For someone like her, who was not afraid of being alone (sleeping in airports overnight by herself, travelling to urban areas by herself), going to a bar alone is not a stretch. That's what I meant.
I've read multiple reviews for the Cecil/Stay accusing hotel staff of entering guests rooms and taking things and having no repercussions. This goes along with what locals have said about corrupt/unprofessional employees. I wish we knew if her phone had been recovered. If it WAS a hotel staffer who said they "didn't want to talk about her phone" that is very odd. Why would they use those words, instead of "no comment" or "I can't talk about that"? This is a long shot, and I'm probably looking too much into the quote but what if a staffer took the phone from her room? Maybe it turned up during investigation that an employee had it for some reason. I think I read it was a blackberry which are supposedly "phasing out" but if they were looking for some quick cash I'm sure it could be sold for a good amount of money.
margarita25
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True, unless (this is where the psychological profiling aspects come into play) the perp(s) is making a statement of some sort(s), chose this hotel for a reason, etc. (it's history, for example)...Again, assuming foul play is involved.
Robert White
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A few weeks ago, I attended a seminar with ASIS PSP/CPP individuals and this did come up. CCTVs are more often than not, set to record and are not monitored. I forget the actual term for this, but basically it allows for reaction after the fact, not during it. This is probably the case for the Cecil. It is not cost effective to have 24 hours eyes on security monitors because of (1) cost, and (2) boredom and eye fatigue. I believe one of these people mentioned for complete effectiveness for 24 eyes on, you need to rotate shifts every hour. If anyone wants real op standards for this, check up on the ASIS site. I don't think you need to log on as a member.
Robert White
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My post says analyzing the trip is more useful than the video. In a previous post, I've said we are focusing on the video too much. Perhaps re-read my post again
If you're travelling by yourself, going out to a bar or a club to see a band is not out of the ordinary. For someone like her, who was not afraid of being alone (sleeping in airports overnight by herself, travelling to urban areas by herself), going to a bar alone is not a stretch. That's what I meant.
Haha, my apologies, I must have misread!
SplishSplash
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Hello, new here I have been lurking a bit, encouraged by another member I joined to share my opinions on this. I am absolutely enthralled with this case because I have been traveling alone (female 27) since I could drive and it just disturbs me, something is wrong.
I'm on page 11 of this thread so I am not entirely caught up, but I wanted to share some thoughts.
Okay here is what I see.
I was shown this video without any information on what happened, I had no heard about it whatsoever, last night.
I watched and my initial reaction was that she was on some kind of dissasociative drug due to the specific movements, block steps, wide stances. The weird hand movements. The first thing I said was "I think I know what she is on".
Well... I was then told she ended up in a tank of water. It is common for people to take disassociatives to have out of body experiences, being in water results in sensory deprivation.
But after a few more watches and learning about this woman I changed my mind all together and I will try to break down my thoughts here watching this video frame by frame.
- She enters the elevator with her head down, with a purpose. As if she had just been assaulted sexually or offended or cat-called. She is NOT wearing her glasses. The theories that she left her room quickly to use the restroom without them is just improbable. I wear glasses and contacts and I can't see anything without them, they are the first thing I reach for when doing anything other than sleeping if I am not wearing contacts (I don't if she has contacts). When she goes to stand she has her hands clenched suggesting anxiety which so far, she seems to have under some kind of control.
- When she goes to press the buttons she gets very close, indicating she has horrible vision like mine and is pointing her finger a bit away from the buttons which I think was done so she could squint and make out the buttons without hitting the wrong one (like Door Open or Hold)
- She stands there a bit then darts out keeping a foot in the elevator and does a look both ways very quickly, then quickly gets back inside, which indicates to me that she did not want to activate the motion sensors that will retract the doors if they were to try to close. When she returns she still stands in the middle of the Elevator. Remember here her vision is so bad that she cant see the buttons until they are right in front of her, how far could she possibly see down that hall? My vision is so bad I cant even make out the E during an eye exam, I barely even see a color change to know a letter is there.
- She moves to the right with her hands clasped. Then quickly to the corner by the buttons. Her head turns to the right. Indicating she heard something, that would be the safest place to be out of site. People say she has a smile here, I disagree. I have been in a few shady situations in public and at home. When I am trying to hide or be quiet, I breathe out of my mouth to control my breath and avoid any accidental nose whistling or stuffiness.
- She creeps to the precipice still "safely" inside the elevator, head goes LEFT to right to hear, or see, which indicates to me she determined the sound came from the left. Then there is the odd hop. If she had heard someone or something the hop could have been to make a noise to indicate to "whoever" that someone is on that floor to maybe scare them away. I considered momentarily it was shock at seeing someone but if you jumped out of shock your hands would come out of your pockets, it would not be a specific stance you jumped into. I believe that stance was chosen by here to make the loudest noise.
- She steps to the side again in to that same stance as if she is going to make the noise with her feet again, but thinks twice (heard something still coming her way?" and moves to having her feet together, still as can be, for stealth purposes and listening. She backs into then out of the elevator, she sees someone right here, to the right, or knows they are too close to hide. She is seeming to be just "waiting for the elevator" maybe to hide the fact its already open.
- She steps again to the left. Barely in view of the camera. It is my understanding there was another elevator to her left, perhaps she pressed that button as well 'just in case'. For the first time her hands drop and swing freely, I believe to mask her fear because she is definitely within site of someone now, her hands go up as if to indicate frustration with the elevators, to show a relaxed stretch to the person, behind her head like impatiently waiting. Perhaps some small talk is going on here, who knows we can't see. She cant see well either, she turns back to the camera with eyes closed as if she just realized the gravity of the situation, her hands go for the doors to "feel" the opening because she has her eyes closed and is realizing the situation is worse and her life truly is in danger.
- She presses buttons not with more vigor, without the specific movements before, desperately. She touches one multiple times over and over harder and harder and it also is the last one she presses (Door closed?) She moves out again hands messing with hair stands out of view but her skirt is moving which indicates to me she is talking now and soon she turns right, obviously speaking to someone.
- The first movement she leans forward, her palm turns inward towards herself a minute and then she motions to the elevator moving her hand back and forth, I believe that here she is explaining the problem with the elevator and concern something is tied up with the motion sensor to seem like she feels calm and maybe convince the person she is not afraid so they wont hurt her. What fun is pursuing a victim who isn't afraid?
- She moves her right hand over and over in circles, like she is saying "Then I tried this, then I tried that" her hands go down, palm up as if she were saying " Do you know what's wrong?" "Can you help me?". Asking someone for a favor or help is known in Psychiatry to make the person immidiately feel personal and friendly towards you.
- I believe here her arms cross for a second, then she bends in the knees and starts counting off things on her fingers. A bend in the knees indicates weakness. I have two ideas. She is naming everything she has tried to do to fix the elevator, or she is personalizing herself to the person which if you travel alone as a woman you know that the more you personalize yourself to a potential thread, the less likely they are to act.
- Her hands then clasp together and she pulls them into her chest with another bend in the knee. Imagine yourself begging "Please PLEASE PLEASE dont hurt me". With each please, you would bend in the knees. Try it. She bends twice more and the last bend in the knees is lower, more emphasized, and desperate. Her hands are clasped again at her side, she runs her fingers through her hair in anxiety. She steps forward slowly, makes a very specific and curt turn to the right as if she knows what is about to happen,and is making herself move despite fear. The end. The elevator finally closes, I still have no clue why it was open so long unless she kept mistakingly pressing HOLD which I dont know how long a hold lasts if someone knows I will attempt to time it between the two occasions she presses buttons.
Holes in theories:
Suicide:
That floor is closest to the roof. She is trying to get down from there. She obviously has no desire to be on that floor.
Bipolar:
Maybe she is bipolar, OCD, and ADD as is suggested in blogs that I do not know are verified as being hers and she is having some sort of manic or depressive psychotic episode. Trust me I am all three of those diagnoses and have had those swings before I was stable on medication and it would not drive me to act this way or do something as drastic as jump in a water cistern. Honestly, I wouldn't know that's what the tank was or that there was a way to get in to one. I see her actions as being very calm and calculated and SMART.
Running out of sleeping pills/ On drugs:
This blows a hole straight through the idea she was on a hypnotic sleep aid which CAN make you act this way. On any drug that causes hallucinations INCLUDING AMBIEN I -know- that you could not behave this reasonably. She would get caught up in staring at the buttons, feeling the walls or carpet, staring at the patterns in the floor, especially when fear is invoked on this type of substance she would be thrown into a hallucinogenic nightmare and would be more terrified.
She's playing some sort of prank? That is ridiculous in my opinion. I have travelled alone since I could drive. Even meeting up with internet friends and staying in a hotel with them without having met them before. I know the dangers of travelling alone as a woman and made myself aware of safety precautions and how to act when in a sticky situation. Young women disappearing is all over the news, and safety precautions too. I belive this woman is smart, and wouldn't have purposefully put herself in this kind of danger.
I have a ton of unanswered questions but the MOST important point I have to make is....
We HAVE NO SOUND
Sound could change the way we view this entirely. If I knew how, I would throw in some sounds at certain intervals just to prove how it would change the interpretation of the video itself. Keep that in mind when assessing this obviously edited video.
ALSO:
I am on a similar cocktail of medications as she was. A while back I was on Lamictal (Lamitrogene), Ritalin, Citalopram (An SSRI), and Cloraz Dipot (to aid with sleep, a benzo, but I've been on ambien/sonata in the past and boy does it make you act crazy). Currently I take Ritalin, Lamictal, and then the Cloraz Dipot to sleep. I enjoy a drink or four occasionally whilst taking Lamictal and have found that the combination of alcohol and Lamictal does not induce the type of psychotic activity that mixing an SSRI and alcohol would. However, if you drink so much that you are wasted, you will and I KNOW from first hand experience, have a bipolar swing one way or another.
For what its worth!
Catching up!
I have been lurking a bit, encouraged by another member I joined to share my opinions on this. I am absolutely enthralled with this case because I have been traveling alone (female 27) since I could drive and it just disturbs me, something is wrong. I'm on page 11 of this thread so I am not entirely caught up, but I wanted to share some thoughts.
Okay here is what I see.
I was shown this video without any information on what happened, I had no heard about it whatsoever, last night.
I watched and my initial reaction was that she was on some kind of dissasociative drug due to the specific movements, block steps, wide stances. The weird hand movements. The first thing I said was "I think I know what she is on".
Well... I was then told she ended up in a tank of water. It is common for people to take disassociatives to have out of body experiences, being in water results in sensory deprivation.
But after a few more watches and learning about this woman I changed my mind all together and I will try to break down my thoughts here watching this video frame by frame.
- She enters the elevator with her head down, with a purpose. As if she had just been assaulted sexually or offended or cat-called. She is NOT wearing her glasses. The theories that she left her room quickly to use the restroom without them is just improbable. I wear glasses and contacts and I can't see anything without them, they are the first thing I reach for when doing anything other than sleeping if I am not wearing contacts (I don't if she has contacts). When she goes to stand she has her hands clenched suggesting anxiety which so far, she seems to have under some kind of control.
- When she goes to press the buttons she gets very close, indicating she has horrible vision like mine and is pointing her finger a bit away from the buttons which I think was done so she could squint and make out the buttons without hitting the wrong one (like Door Open or Hold)
- She stands there a bit then darts out keeping a foot in the elevator and does a look both ways very quickly, then quickly gets back inside, which indicates to me that she did not want to activate the motion sensors that will retract the doors if they were to try to close. When she returns she still stands in the middle of the Elevator. Remember here her vision is so bad that she cant see the buttons until they are right in front of her, how far could she possibly see down that hall? My vision is so bad I cant even make out the E during an eye exam, I barely even see a color change to know a letter is there.
- She moves to the right with her hands clasped. Then quickly to the corner by the buttons. Her head turns to the right. Indicating she heard something, that would be the safest place to be out of site. People say she has a smile here, I disagree. I have been in a few shady situations in public and at home. When I am trying to hide or be quiet, I breathe out of my mouth to control my breath and avoid any accidental nose whistling or stuffiness.
- She creeps to the precipice still "safely" inside the elevator, head goes LEFT to right to hear, or see, which indicates to me she determined the sound came from the left. Then there is the odd hop. If she had heard someone or something the hop could have been to make a noise to indicate to "whoever" that someone is on that floor to maybe scare them away. I considered momentarily it was shock at seeing someone but if you jumped out of shock your hands would come out of your pockets, it would not be a specific stance you jumped into. I believe that stance was chosen by here to make the loudest noise.
- She steps to the side again in to that same stance as if she is going to make the noise with her feet again, but thinks twice (heard something still coming her way?" and moves to having her feet together, still as can be, for stealth purposes and listening. She backs into then out of the elevator, she sees someone right here, to the right, or knows they are too close to hide. She is seeming to be just "waiting for the elevator" maybe to hide the fact its already open.
- She steps again to the left. Barely in view of the camera. It is my understanding there was another elevator to her left, perhaps she pressed that button as well 'just in case'. For the first time her hands drop and swing freely, I believe to mask her fear because she is definitely within site of someone now, her hands go up as if to indicate frustration with the elevators, to show a relaxed stretch to the person, behind her head like impatiently waiting. Perhaps some small talk is going on here, who knows we can't see. She cant see well either, she turns back to the camera with eyes closed as if she just realized the gravity of the situation, her hands go for the doors to "feel" the opening because she has her eyes closed and is realizing the situation is worse and her life truly is in danger.
- She presses buttons not with more vigor, without the specific movements before, desperately. She touches one multiple times over and over harder and harder and it also is the last one she presses (Door closed?) She moves out again hands messing with hair stands out of view but her skirt is moving which indicates to me she is talking now and soon she turns right, obviously speaking to someone.
- The first movement she leans forward, her palm turns inward towards herself a minute and then she motions to the elevator moving her hand back and forth, I believe that here she is explaining the problem with the elevator and concern something is tied up with the motion sensor to seem like she feels calm and maybe convince the person she is not afraid so they wont hurt her. What fun is pursuing a victim who isn't afraid?
- She moves her right hand over and over in circles, like she is saying "Then I tried this, then I tried that" her hands go down, palm up as if she were saying " Do you know what's wrong?" "Can you help me?". Asking someone for a favor or help is known in Psychiatry to make the person immidiately feel personal and friendly towards you.
- I believe here her arms cross for a second, then she bends in the knees and starts counting off things on her fingers. A bend in the knees indicates weakness. I have two ideas. She is naming everything she has tried to do to fix the elevator, or she is personalizing herself to the person which if you travel alone as a woman you know that the more you personalize yourself to a potential thread, the less likely they are to act.
- Her hands then clasp together and she pulls them into her chest with another bend in the knee. Imagine yourself begging "Please PLEASE PLEASE dont hurt me". With each please, you would bend in the knees. Try it. She bends twice more and the last bend in the knees is lower, more emphasized, and desperate. Her hands are clasped again at her side, she runs her fingers through her hair in anxiety. She steps forward slowly, makes a very specific and curt turn to the right as if she knows what is about to happen,and is making herself move despite fear. The end. The elevator finally closes, I still have no clue why it was open so long unless she kept mistakingly pressing HOLD which I dont know how long a hold lasts if someone knows I will attempt to time it between the two occasions she presses buttons.
Holes in theories:
Suicide:
That floor is closest to the roof. She is trying to get down from there. She obviously has no desire to be on that floor.
Bipolar:
Maybe she is bipolar, OCD, and ADD as is suggested in blogs that I do not know are verified as being hers and she is having some sort of manic or depressive psychotic episode. Trust me I am all three of those diagnoses and have had those swings before I was stable on medication and it would not drive me to act this way or do something as drastic as jump in a water cistern. Honestly, I wouldn't know that's what the tank was or that there was a way to get in to one. I see her actions as being very calm and calculated and SMART.
Running out of sleeping pills/ On drugs:
This blows a hole straight through the idea she was on a hypnotic sleep aid which CAN make you act this way. On any drug that causes hallucinations INCLUDING AMBIEN I -know- that you could not behave this reasonably. She would get caught up in staring at the buttons, feeling the walls or carpet, staring at the patterns in the floor, especially when fear is invoked on this type of substance she would be thrown into a hallucinogenic nightmare and would be more terrified.
She's playing some sort of prank? That is ridiculous in my opinion. I have travelled alone since I could drive. Even meeting up with internet friends and staying in a hotel with them without having met them before. I know the dangers of travelling alone as a woman and made myself aware of safety precautions and how to act when in a sticky situation. Young women disappearing is all over the news, and safety precautions too. I belive this woman is smart, and wouldn't have purposefully put herself in this kind of danger.
I have a ton of unanswered questions but the MOST important point I have to make is....
We HAVE NO SOUND
Sound could change the way we view this entirely. If I knew how, I would throw in some sounds at certain intervals just to prove how it would change the interpretation of the video itself. Keep that in mind when assessing this obviously edited video.
ALSO:
I am on a similar cocktail of medications as she was. A while back I was on Lamictal (Lamitrogene), Ritalin, Citalopram (An SSRI), and Cloraz Dipot (to aid with sleep, a benzo, but I've been on ambien/sonata in the past and boy does it make you act crazy). Currently I take Ritalin, Lamictal, and then the Cloraz Dipot to sleep. I enjoy a drink or four occasionally whilst taking Lamictal and have found that the combination of alcohol and Lamictal does not induce the type of psychotic activity that mixing an SSRI and alcohol would. However, if you drink so much that you are wasted, you will and I KNOW from first hand experience, have a bipolar swing one way or another.
For what its worth!
Catching up!
margarita25
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How reliable is this source? If she did write this, it must have been significant enough for a reason to hand write on a small post card with limited space (as opposed to all the other things she could write...)
Robert White
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Interesting. I have seen Drive, but I'm not sure what kind of pilgrimage you can do. What was in the movie...Restaurant, the strip club, the little hotel, the pawn shop, and the beach?
Not making any connections here.
californiared3
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How reliable is this source? If she did write this, it must have been significant enough for a reason to hand write on a small post card with limited space (as opposed to all the other things she could write...)
I'm trying to find the original source, it sources OMNI news reporter found "<modsnip>" on facebook on Elisa's friend list that posted this screencap of the postcard on the 7th Feb.
Any luck from others finding more info on the postcard? It is a pretty big lead on who she was with and saw....
skyfitsheaven
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This blog post talks about some of the filming locations. Cecil is near the Staples Center, so maybe she is talking about that. Drive is based on a noir novel, and focuses on the darker side of LA, so I think that's what she's referring to:
http://www.reel-scout.com/blog/post/458/the-12-film-locations-of-drive-in-los-angeles/
Here is another blog post with some info:
http://jerrygarrett.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/where-was-the-movie-drive-filmed/
"1. The movie starts in downtown L.A., and the crackerjack opening gambit involves a chase scene on Seventh Street and an iconic old concrete bridge."
http://www.reel-scout.com/blog/post/458/the-12-film-locations-of-drive-in-los-angeles/
Here is another blog post with some info:
http://jerrygarrett.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/where-was-the-movie-drive-filmed/
"1. The movie starts in downtown L.A., and the crackerjack opening gambit involves a chase scene on Seventh Street and an iconic old concrete bridge."
Turk February
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Right, considering Cecil Hotel's questionable standards - I'd go along with that.
A friend of mine who stayed in L.A for two weeks went to the Cecil Hotel as a guest on the 7th floor a year ago. I asked if she remembered any cameras in the hallways and she recalls not seeing any.
Any other confirmation that there isn't any cameras in the hallways besides the CCTV cameras in the double elevators?
Also, if there are two elevators right beside each other - How do you explain Elisa not just waiting for the other elevator to come up to her floor?
Unless somebody else was using it, like a security guard for example in my scenario?
margarita25
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I believe the comment re: her phone was made by LE at the first press conference video when she went missing, the one with her parents and sister, will double check first thread.
No luck for me but I just did a quick google source and nothing came up, I wouldn't have been able to find out about it on my own. Do we know when this information about the postcard was released? It's strange that it's only been mentioned in Chinese news. Depending on where the friend is, it could have taken a little while for the postcard to reach her.
Turk February
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Based on one of her re-tweets, it can be implied she has some fascination with Ryan Gosling and the movie Drive.
https://twitter.com/lambetes
A retweet on Dec.6 from Stats Canada -
"Canadian toothpick sales increased 9000% after the release of the Ryan Gosling film 'Drive'"
Retweeted by L.L
Any significance at all from this as well as her postcard? I like the cheeky tweet by the way.
californiared3
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Disturbing that the movie Driver on the sites mention "Elevator" scene being important.....
anyone has memory of ANY RESEMBLANCE between that movie's elevator scene and anything in the video?
anyone has memory of ANY RESEMBLANCE between that movie's elevator scene and anything in the video?
skyfitsheaven
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I did find the FB account of the friend who is referred to in the article but her account is locked down and I can't see the postcard. Wonder why it's written in sharpie and wonder what the postmark date is on the postcard.
I initially thought it was made by LE too, but I keep seeing people say it was a Hotel worker and when I questioned this previously I didn't get a response. If you are able to locate the quote I would appreciate it!
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