CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[jon999]

Has it been confirmed that the hotel is closed for repairs? All I can find is a story by the "Global Times", a chinese website.

And it seems like I'd be able to reserve a room for tonight on the hotel website.

 

[Turk February]

I believe this article to be 100% true! I dont read the language but they are to me showing the 14th floor. A renovated 14th floor. Oddly enough it looks the same as the renovated 15th floor. The picture that illustrates the walls being green was obviously pre reno.

I think meaning this.

Floors 8-15 have the same paint now and are laid out almost identically.

Floor 7 would be nicer, more well let.

This is what the video shows.

Someone find a renod picture of the 10th floor I bet it has a different kind of light or something because thats the only difference between floor 10 and floor 14, the bottom view of a light.

Totally a different color wallpaper of the 14th floor then what was shown in this video here. It was uploaded on July 4th, 2012.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zkukLsXdE0"]Tour of the Cecil hotel: The BEST hotel in downtown Los Angeles. - YouTube[/ame]


Fast forward to 2:12 on the video and see them enter the 14th floor at the Cecil Hotel. The wallpaper is light green where as the picture taken by the Apple Daily reporters show the wallpaper on the 14th floor as being light orange.

The 15th floor in this picture above is red/orange in color.

So....was she on the 15th floor or 14th floor?



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]



Also, notice in the CCTV video that there is no mirror on top of the wooden crossbar on the floor Elisa Lam is in. She has to be on the 15th floor in my opinion

 

[Chorley8]

It appears to me that different floors of the Cecil hotel are managed by Stay and some by Cecil but are essentially the same place and are essentially CECIL (which sucks). I can see how someone who is not familiar with the LA area would look at the Stay website and think its a hip young affordable safe hotel. You do not realize until you get there that "Stay" is just some re-painted and slightly "remodeled" rooms in the Cecil hotel. It is VERY EASY to see why Elisa picked this place and not realized what she was getting into. I have lived in LA for a long time and knew the area and what I was getting into and it was okay with me but for someone from out of town I can easily see how this SEEMED like a new hip clean safe place. But it's not.

Thanks for all of this insider information, excellent. So what is the appeal of the hotel? I mean you know LA or live there as you say not sure which and you wanted to stay in a hostel there? (Just trying to understand the sociology of this - as you get older (me) it can get harder to connect or reconnect with youthful attitudes - and then things change of course. Locally does it have any sleazy glamour like the old Chelsea in New York?

 

[ceefry23]

The police know IMO 100% who did this. If not a solid 98%.

The police i'm sure do not have this man in holding.

How many rooms per floor? 35 or so?

I bet the day of the Feb 1st or 2nd the police started their investigation by questioning everyone on the 14th floor. Maybe some werent home. Say they talked to 20/35 people. So they have ID on these people and need ID on the other 15. Ok we'll go see who has checked out today from this floor. Possibly only 1 person?

Unable to track down this person they bring in INTERPOL and basically release the most minimal amount of information possible.

They later question the other 14 people leaving 1 person staying on the 14th floor as their prime suspect.

Most likely no that easy but seems probable considering.

If she died of an overdose it would be hard to call that a homicide without knowing what caused the OD

 

[Buckeye lady]

There is currently no indication that any of the floors are identical, nor any indication that any other floor has the same elements as found in that picture that we also see in the elevator video.

Edit: I zoomed. 15! Definitely! I had never even noticed there was a number above the mirror till you mentioned it.

So she was on the 15th floor with someone, possibly killed on the top maintenance building, body dropped on top of the water tank (causing loud noise), hatch opened, body pushed inside along with clothes, clothes sunk, clothes went into the drain and caused a flood between floor 14th and 15th?

Also, there were WAY too many people on that roof when they found her body, the crime scene is probably messed up by now. At least they might have prints on the lid, if the person didn't cover his hands when opening it.

Did you notice when the firemen were leaving that they were carrying big black trash bags full of stuff? Maybe clothing was found in the tank. It looked like a tarp they used was in one of the trash bags. At least they had some respect for her as they put up a tent structure so the news helicopters that were hovering over them couldn't see them actually taking her body out of the tank. I give them credit for that.

 

[OCSlacker]

Unless the quote is wrong, Diaz would have to be below the 4th floor. Am I missing something?

"Bernard Diaz, 89, said he heard a "tremendous" noise the night before Lam was missing in the fourth floor above him and there was flooding on the fourth floor the day after Lam went missing."




http://www.examiner.com/article/bod...ourist-found-water-tank-on-top-of-cecil-hotel

Did a web search last night and found him on the 14th floor not the 3rd. Take a look at the previous folder around page 31-33..

 

[Turk February]

smeinzer, I'd hate to be on your shoes know knowing that Elisa Lam was still in unfound inside the water tank when you were up on the rooftops while taking photographs of the skyline on your visit starting from Feb.7th.

I bet you would have chills running down your spine unbeknownst by that and just finding out recently now!

Elisa was missing after Feb.1st...did we determine the possibility that Elisa Lam could have been dumped in the water tank on any other day after Feb.1st?

 

[ceefry23]

Totally a different color wallpaper of the 14th floor then what was shown in this video here. It was uploaded on July 4th, 2012.


Tour of the Cecil hotel: The BEST hotel in downtown Los Angeles. - YouTube


Fast forward to 2:12 on the video and see them enter the 14th floor at the Cecil Hotel. The wallpaper is light green where as the picture taken by the Apple Daily reporters show the wallpaper on the 14th floor as being light orange.

The 15th floor in this picture above is red/orange in color.

So....was she on the 15th floor or 14th floor?



Elisa Lam Video - YouTube



Also, notice in the CCTV video that there is no mirror on top of the wooden crossbar on the floor Elisa Lam is in. She has to be on the 15th floor in my opinion

Turk you couldnt be more wrong about the this 15th floor thing IMO. The video you keep referencing is clearing outdated. There are two pieces of evident that shows that that video is outdated and misleading.

1: The security camera is of the old fashion where as we see more updated pictures having a new style security camera.

2: The asian paper reported sending their people to take photos of the 14th floor, meaning they are current. They are identical EVEN TO THE MIRROR! The reason we dont see the mirror is because of the angle of the camera. its pointing down and the mirror is out of view on both the 14th and 10th floor.

If you went to the 10th floor today I can almost guarantee it would look the exact same as the 14th and 15th floor. Same Paint, same mirror, same everything.

 

[jon999]

Thanks for all of this insider information, excellent. So what is the appeal of the hotel? I mean you know LA or live there as you say not sure which and you wanted to stay in a hostel there? (Just trying to understand the sociology of this - as you get older (me) it can get harder to connect or reconnect with youthful attitudes - and then things change of course. Locally does it have any sleazy glamour like the old Chelsea in New York?

It's cheap, it's close to greyhound and the photos look great. It's also in downtown LA. You usually think downtown is the best location to stay in.

Elisa probably books her accomodations on websites like hostelworld.com. It has a 76% rating. Not bad.

http://www.hostelworld.com/hosteldetails.php/Stay-on-Main/Los-Angeles/26580/reviews

 

[Turk February]

Did you notice when the firemen were leaving that they were carrying big black trash bags full of stuff? Maybe clothing was found in the tank. It looked like a tarp they used was in one of the trash bags. At least they had some respect for her as they put up a tent structure so the news helicopters that were hovering over them couldn't see them actually taking her body out of the tank. I give them credit for that.

They would of reported finding her clothes by now, which they haven't since.

 

[ceefry23]

In the second thread I mentioned that I think the killer chose putting her into the tank or forcing her into the tank herself to buy himself the most time to escape. I imagine he disposed of the body that night and checked out THE MORNING of Feb 1st. The police would have checked into this and am sure know who theyre looking for now.

They just wont call it a suicide or homicide bcos the cause of death is OD.

This is all IMO but I believe it very strongly.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Can you read through my analysis of the CCTV video and give me your impression on what you think of it -- compared to your analysis. I just want to know what you think about this.

I believe that when she first entered the elevator, she had no feeling of immediate danger or any indication she was playing 'a game of hide and seek' as some people here have theorized.








Here is my scenario of what happened in that CCTV recording.



Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

The buttons she presses on the middle row from top to bottom:

14 10, 7, 4 (the floor of her hotel room), M (mezzanine), B (basement) and finally the DOOR HOLD button on the very bottom.

Based on a clarification, she wasn't on the 14th floor, but below it. However, I personally believe she is on the 15th floor in this video. I still believe her destination was the 4th floor.

0:11 Right when she is about to press the final button on the bottom, the DOOR HOLD button (refer to the picture on my reply post), notice the elevator door about to close.

It is only then when she presses the DOOR HOLD button that the elevator door retracts, and remains open.

0:13 Elisa backs up and waits for the elevator to close as normal. However it takes too long and then she begins to wonder if somebody is outside the hallway preventing the door from closing




0:23 Elisa slowly and cautiously steps forward to investigate the hallway. She carefully lunges out quick to get a quick peek out the hallway - but nobody is outside.

0:25 Elisa steps back into the elevator, bemused at finding nobody outside the hallway. I can imagine right now, her feeling nervous and confused. She wonders to herself, "is it a ghost??" "Is somebody outside the elevator?"

She spooks her self, and backs into the elevator wall, and into the corner


0:39 she musters up the courage again to step out the elevator to see if anybody is outside. Slowly taking cautious steps since there is a hallway on the left and right, and anybody is able to hide around the corner there.


0:57 At this point, security guards in the CCTV monitor room, watching her every move via the CCTV camera in the elevator get concerned, and one of them is dispatched to take the second elevator next to the one Elisa is in up to the mystery floor Elisa is on in this video.

1:12 Elisa stands outside the elevator, back against the wall. She wonders if there is a problem with the elevator sensor and waits to see if it will close if she is out of the elevator




1:27 After waiting for so long for the elevator to work, with no luck - Elisa becomes frustrated and panics. She puts her hands on her head and gets back in the elevator as if to say "oh my god, why isn't this elevator working??"

This is when she gives a second attempt, to press ALL off the buttons again, only on the middle row to see if it will work. Unknowingly, she presses the DOOR HOLD button multiple times, triggering it on and off and on, resetting the door hold timer.




1:56 Elisa steps out the elevator again, and by this time, the security guard using the other elevator beside the one Elisa is in finally reaches up the floor she's on.

He steps out, away from camera view from the 1st elevator and calls out to? Elisa asking what is going on.

Elisa is surprised, and then gestures toward the elevator explaining her dilemma with the elevator not working. The guard asks her how many times she (still figuring out what), and Elisa uses her fingers to count 3 times.






I believe that Elisa Lam was looking for a public shower room that was vacant since the one on the 4th floor was occupied.


And now knowing that the shower rooms are next to the toilet rooms, and also being shown that there is a vent at the wall for somebody to spy on somebody taking a shower, I'm sure Elisa caught somebody spying on her while taking a shower, and then threatened the person by calling security, which led to her untimely death when the person got nervous and killed her to shut her up.







Stay Hotel Downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube

She must of been too stubborn to go back to her hotel room to get her glasses, which is why she is seen having trouble seeing the buttons on the elevator, and then taking a gamble to press the entire column hoping she'll get to her 4th floor from the mystery floor, but she unknowingly pressed the DOOR HOLD button as well.

I think she was on the 14th floor just because the top button is pressed but the light goes off immediately, which means she was pressing the button of the floor the elevator was stopped at. She kept pressing in a downward motion because she wanted to go 'down'. Whatever state of mind she was in, she equated pressing all the buttons downward with going down. I don't know about the shower theory. If she was doing that, she's have a towel and bath stuff like shampoo, soap, etc... in her hands. It's not clear why she was up on the 14th floor, but it's possible if her room wasn't there, that was the nearest public washroom she could use because her's wasn't working.

It's too bad they didn't release footage of her before this last elevator trip. Maybe we'd see her going up to the 14th floor? She clearly walks away from the elevator having given up on trying to use it. But does she go to her room, or does she get ambushed, or does she head upstairs to the roof?

 

[FutzBucket]

After spending some time watching the Elisa Lam elevator video online, I believe I'm formed a concept as to what happened during those moments.

Because of her lack of glasses, she couldn't remember which floor was hers, so she went to the 14th floor, because she remembered it was a middle button, perhaps confusing the floors "4" with "14". She tried to enter what she thought was her room, and this alerted the occupant of that room.

She comes back to the elevator but the original one she took is now somewhere else (that's a different tape), and she enters the 2nd elevator.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

Start the video.

0:07, she's trying to read the numbers, but can't, so she just hits all the buttons in the middle row, and then hits the "HOLD DOOR" button, thinking it reads, "CLOSE DOOR".

00:20, the occupant has left the apartment, is holding the elevator button in the hall, and is outside the vision of the camera. He says calmly, "hey, get out of the elevator."

00:24, she checks the hallway, and sees the man standing by the button. She positions herself to view the the man, and is waiting for the elevator doors to shut. The occupant holds the button to the elevator, and calmly asks who she is.

00:37, She approaches the man and attempts to apologize.

00:48, the occupant tells her to get out of the elevator. She shyly and slowly begins to, but sees danger.

00:53, the occupant pulls out a gun, and this causes her to jump. The occupant is now telling her to come closer to him. She doesn't understand there's a camera in the elevator, while the occupant is fully aware of this.

1:03, the occupant grabs her at gunpoint, and tells her to get out of here or he'll kill her, he probably mugs her, and he releases her.

1:30, she enters the elevator and is terrified. In a panic, she hits all the middle buttons, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button. The man is telling her to leave, and she doesn't understand why she can't.

1:50, the occupant hits the button again and orders her to come back. She's in tears and is trying to say she's confused.

1:57, the occupant places his gun on the back of her head, and she's pulling away, giving the strange look about her arms.

2:05, the occupant grabs her neck, and gives her a yank and tells her to shut up, and she completely submits.

2:12, she begins begging for her life.

2:20, the occupant orders her to be quiet.

2:25, the occupant leads her away from the camera by her neck, and a gun to her head.

2:45 (aporox) the occupant lets go of the elevator button.

2:58, the elevator shuts, and begins going to the floors pressed.

It is my belief she was accosted by an occupant of the 14th floor, probably someone in a room with a fire escape access to the roof. My belief she's on the 14th floor is because of this picture...

http://i.imgur.com/we6I2JX.jpg

...this is a picture of the buttons in the elevator in that video. According to this, she kept hitting all the buttons in the middle row, in this order from top down, 14, 10, 7, 4, M, B, and "HOLD DOOR". She was staying on the 4th floor, and I believe made a simple error, due to not wearing her glasses, where she picked "14".

You'll notice in the video that the top button in the middle row does not light when she presses it. That is because, as you see in the photo, it's the 14th floor, and she's already there.

What happens then till she ended up in the tank is anyone's guess, but I believe her time was very quick. Check out this news report from Stephan Chase for KTLA News, specifically the testimony of Bernard Diaz starting about 1:30 in. He talks about an "explosion" that "knocked him out of bed".

http://ktla.com/2013/02/19/womans-body-found-in-cecil-hotel-water-tank-2/#axzz2LpWbGbvH

I believe this proves my concept that the killer forced her to climb into the tank, because he then followed, stuck his gun in the tank, and then shot her. Why else would he do this, unless she was alive going in? The reason why the suspect choose the watertank, was he was hoping the tank would muffle the sound of the gunshot, which it did, but the suspect didn't count on the sound traveling through the pipes and exploding into the room of Mr. Diaz.

I suspect the body's been in the watertank since Jan.30th, and shortly after this video.

I believe the suspect is an occupant (due to his knowledge of the camera) living on the 14th floor, and has access to the roof via a fire escape. His motive was because he mugged her at gunpoint, gave her a chance to leave, and she didn't leave.

I know the police are saying that the body was placed in the tank much later, and they can't find any wounds. If this is true, then what I believe happened is the suspect missed shooting Elisa, and simply shut the lid, latched it shut, and left her to die in the tank.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I just realized a little detail. Travelers from Europe, Asia and Africa would rather expect water towers on a hotel roof than not. Basically in that points, only Western Europe and by far not all hotels there are what you would consider the normal standard when it comes to water pressure. So everyone who ever would have traveled lets say Eastern Europe, would basically expect it, opposite to travelers who traveled Canada and the US. Not sure about Mexico and South America though, I never traveled there.
So, if you have a body, in a hotel room and you start to think, where can you park it, what comes to mind? Lounge? Hardly! Elevator? Hardly? Someone else's room? Also hardly. When you think about it, there are the technical service areas (maybe basement) and the tanks. And if you have no access to the basement, you are left with the tanks on the roof. Actually, it's the tanks or you pull a Dahmer, but to do that, you need a car. And I doubt too many of those young hip broken travelers there get themselves a rental.

 

[ceefry23]

They would of reported finding her clothes by now, which they haven't since.

Im sure they wont find her clothes. Why not? because the killer took them off after he thought the drugs were kicking in. I can even believe this is the time that he realizes shes not breathing and maybe even stops his advances. Hey maybe he even punches the wall because he fcked up bigtime.

I dont think he flushed her clothes or anything like that, i think he tried flushing her ID and Phone tho and thats what ****ed up the pipes.

The clothes I bet ended up in a garbage can somewhere between the cecil and LAX

 

[ThinkHard]

I think even though the LAPD walked back the leak that foul play had been ruled out, I think it may have been accurate. LAPD leaks like a sieve.

I am thinking if there was graffiti near the water towers, maybe it is not all that secure.

Also, if a person were drinking or using drugs or had a heart attack and slipped under the water would the autopsy look the same as someone who had struggled in the water? I am thinking less water in the lungs maybe? If she did drown, wouldn't they know that from the autopsy.

Thank you for tolerating my amateur ramblings on my first post.

I can see how someone may be able to slip
In the water and drown if it were a bathtub, or off a dock.... But I don't see how someone just slips in a small opening of a 10 foot high water tank, on the roof of a 15 story building, with a hatch, and is only accessed by a ladder.

 

[smeinzer]

The minute I stumbled upon this case, I was instantly drawn in. So tragic and bizaare--and just so creepy. I really feel for this young woman and her family. Normally, I would scoff at a victim in a similar circumstance and say, 'You had no business traveling alone and staying near Skid Row as a 21 yr old female, so look what happened,' but the water tank...that is just awful. Just terrible. And I hate how all the press seemed to talk about was how her body affecting the water pressure and color, and grossed out the guests. For g-d sakes, show some respect.

After reading articles, and many posts here, on YouTube, and within articles, in addition to viewing the extraordinarily creepy elevator video, I firmly believe 2 things:

1. Ms. Lam was high on some sort of drug, be it street or prescription, taken by choice or given to her without her knowing. It is so clear in this video, I am surprised to read others comments of it being anything otherwise, except mental illness. The pace in which she moves, slow and casual -to- quick and illogical, and the manner and speed in which she moves her limbs. Also her face and speed of movement showed no sign of fear or danger. At all. At one point she pushes all the buttons for quite a long period of time, like she is intent and focused on pushing them all. She was acting as if she was a young child in a way, only---high.

2. Suicide or accidental death should REALLY be ruled out, if the lid was on the tank when she was found. I just do not see how a girl of her stature and that she was unfamiliar with the building, being a tourist, could have physically gotten herself into that water tank and closed the lid (if the lid was closed). There is NO WAY she could have closed the lid on herself. No way. Someone had to have done this to her. This is if the lid was on. It is possible that in her drug-induced state, she could have wondered up there and jumped or fallen in---but only if the lid was off when they found her.

Also, a water tank is just so random for a non-hotel resident/guest to think about or visit. Only someone that works there or lives there would really get creative and utilize and have access to something so forgotten and far out of everyones reach.

Personally, this really is starting to look like an inside job. Here are some theories that I am still mulling over...

1. I think Lam could have taken drugs to escape reality/depression and someone who worked there noticed this and took advantage of her right at that moment they saw her high.

2. Lam was stalked from the beginning of her stay, and the stalker used the cameras in the elevator to wait her out and got lucky in that she used drugs--which enabled him to take advantage of her. There are theories out there stating that the video looked edited or controlled, and frankly, it's not a bad point.

3. Scenario #2, but she was drugged in some way by her stalker, without her having any social contact with anyone. A worker slipped something in her drink/food. The murderer could have had help from other sinister co-workers. You never know. It could have been a sneaky assembly line of quiet assault from several workers or tenants.

4. Lam was social with one or more people at the hotel, was drugged, or took drugs with them...and the rest is tragedy.

I do think her state of mind, altered in some way, was her fate. Someone used it against her to kill her, or flat out did it TO kill her.

How someone got her into the tank...unsure, but it was most likely someone that worked there, that had a better handle on how to travel up there and maneuver the tank parts. A tenant, possibly, but more so a worker.

I would be heart broken to hear that the LAPD and the medical team close the case as unexplained, accidental, or a suicide. She and her poor family deserves justice.

I do feel bad for her, but we still cannot forget that this is just another cautionary tale for young women not to travel alone out of the country, or at the least, people, young and old, to heed caution when interacting with others while traveling. It is hard to fit in the lesson of how you shouldn't do drugs, because she may have been drugged against her will. People, young and old, please be careful as a tourist. You have a target on your back. Don't make it easy for others.

I have to agree with you that a girl traveling alone should not ever stay at a place like this. But I also want to defend Elisa a bit... She had no idea that the place she was going was a dangerous place. Looking at the Stay on Main website it appears as a hip young international traveler friendly hotel/hostel (a typical spot for this type of traveler to seek out). Unless you are familiar with the area you wouldn't know by looking at the site that it's in a sketchy location. I do agree though that this should be a cautionary tale for lone travelers. It's ALWAYS a good idea to do research on the place you are traveling.

 

[Peace777]

And in the very next paragraph she states:


<bbm>

from the link you posted:
http://etherfields.blogspot.ca/2011/11/on-being-no-name-blogger-using-her-real.html


??

Found this about a Kate Harding, Quote: "Kate Harding is the author of ASKING FOR IT, forthcoming from Da Capo Press in Fall 2013, and founder of Don't Get Raped, a darkly funny blog about rape ..." FWIW

 

[Turk February]

Turk you couldnt be more wrong about the this 15th floor thing IMO. The video you keep referencing is clearing outdated. There are two pieces of evident that shows that that video is outdated and misleading.

1: The security camera is of the old fashion where as we see more updated pictures having a new style security camera.

2: The asian paper reported sending their people to take photos of the 14th floor, meaning they are current. They are identical EVEN TO THE MIRROR! The reason we dont see the mirror is because of the angle of the camera. its pointing down and the mirror is out of view on both the 14th and 10th floor.

If you went to the 10th floor today I can almost guarantee it would look the exact same as the 14th and 15th floor. Same Paint, same mirror, same everything.

I already acknowledged it was outdated.

And look at the floor plan of the 14th floor where the mirror is and look at the CCTV footage of Elisa Lam's hallway floor.

They don't match. The hallway wall is too short where the mirror is on the 14th floor outline picture, compared to the hallway two white pillars on the CCTV footage.


Although, now I notice a discrepancy in the floor plan picture, which excluded those two white pillars beside the wall where the mirror is located.

 

[Handslueth]

Not sure if this is allowed for posting but

@ 830pm PST The Vancouver Cantonese channel, OmniTV, has released information that there is a suspect. All it said is the hotel worker has a key to her room. To me that's not very strong evidence but just another theory like many of you have already guessed so far. Where did this tv channel get their sources from would be interesting to know... from LE?