CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

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After spending some time watching the Elisa Lam elevator video online, I believe I'm formed a concept as to what happened during those moments.

Because of her lack of glasses, she couldn't remember which floor was hers, so she went to the 14th floor, because she remembered it was a middle button, perhaps confusing the floors "4" with "14". She tried to enter what she thought was her room, and this alerted the occupant of that room.

She comes back to the elevator but the original one she took is now somewhere else (that's a different tape), and she enters the 2nd elevator.

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

Start the video.

0:07, she's trying to read the numbers, but can't, so she just hits all the buttons in the middle row, and then hits the "HOLD DOOR" button, thinking it reads, "CLOSE DOOR".

00:20, the occupant has left the apartment, is holding the elevator button in the hall, and is outside the vision of the camera. He says calmly, "hey, get out of the elevator."

00:24, she checks the hallway, and sees the man standing by the button. She positions herself to view the the man, and is waiting for the elevator doors to shut. The occupant holds the button to the elevator, and calmly asks who she is.

00:37, She approaches the man and attempts to apologize.

00:48, the occupant tells her to get out of the elevator. She shyly and slowly begins to, but sees danger.

00:53, the occupant pulls out a gun, and this causes her to jump. The occupant is now telling her to come closer to him. She doesn't understand there's a camera in the elevator, while the occupant is fully aware of this.

1:03, the occupant grabs her at gunpoint, and tells her to get out of here or he'll kill her, he probably mugs her, and he releases her.

1:30, she enters the elevator and is terrified. In a panic, she hits all the middle buttons, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button. The man is telling her to leave, and she doesn't understand why she can't.

1:50, the occupant hits the button again and orders her to come back. She's in tears and is trying to say she's confused.

1:57, the occupant places his gun on the back of her head, and she's pulling away, giving the strange look about her arms.

2:05, the occupant grabs her neck, and gives her a yank and tells her to shut up, and she completely submits.

2:12, she begins begging for her life.

2:20, the occupant orders her to be quiet.

2:25, the occupant leads her away from the camera by her neck, and a gun to her head.

2:45 (aporox) the occupant lets go of the elevator button.

2:58, the elevator shuts, and begins going to the floors pressed.

It is my belief she was accosted by an occupant of the 14th floor, probably someone in a room with a fire escape access to the roof. My belief she's on the 14th floor is because of this picture...

http://i.imgur.com/we6I2JX.jpg

...this is a picture of the buttons in the elevator in that video. According to this, she kept hitting all the buttons in the middle row, in this order from top down, 14, 10, 7, 4, M, B, and "HOLD DOOR". She was staying on the 4th floor, and I believe made a simple error, due to not wearing her glasses, where she picked "14".

You'll notice in the video that the top button in the middle row does not light when she presses it. That is because, as you see in the photo, it's the 14th floor, and she's already there.

What happens then till she ended up in the tank is anyone's guess, but I believe her time was very quick. Check out this news report from Stephan Chase for KTLA News, specifically the testimony of Bernard Diaz starting about 1:30 in. He talks about an "explosion" that "knocked him out of bed".

http://ktla.com/2013/02/19/womans-body-found-in-cecil-hotel-water-tank-2/#axzz2LpWbGbvH

I believe this proves my concept that the killer forced her to climb into the tank, because he then followed, stuck his gun in the tank, and then shot her. Why else would he do this, unless she was alive going in? The reason why the suspect choose the watertank, was he was hoping the tank would muffle the sound of the gunshot, which it did, but the suspect didn't count on the sound traveling through the pipes and exploding into the room of Mr. Diaz.

I suspect the body's been in the watertank since Jan.30th, and shortly after this video.

I believe the suspect is an occupant (due to his knowledge of the camera) living on the 14th floor, and has access to the roof via a fire escape. His motive was because he mugged her at gunpoint, gave her a chance to leave, and she didn't leave.

I know the police are saying that the body was placed in the tank much later, and they can't find any wounds. If this is true, then what I believe happened is the suspect missed shooting Elisa, and simply shut the lid, latched it shut, and left her to die in the tank.

Lol this is almost the exact same thoughts I had 4 days ago when I first started working on this case.

The points in the video that lead me to believe otherwise are this

1) The level of control. As pointed out by a member here she is very easily able to go in and out of the elevator. Had she been getting robbed this would not be the case.

2) Begging for her life? She shows no sign of that. Begging for your life IMO would be more of her screaming or fighting to get away from that person. She remains a certain level of calmness in this video to suggest that she knows this person.

3) if she was shot ................. it would be reported as a homicide.

Also the video is taken on Feb 1st if im not mistaken around 1:23 AM.
 
hi -- new here. have been following this case and everyone's analysis on the board for quite a while now and wanted to chime in. good job on the analysis btw -- i applaud the citizen journalism. it also makes me want to read other cases through the board but fear it will take me completely away from my studies!

anyway. i think elisa lam was either drinking or drugged. a regular person, especially one in a panic who is trying to get away from an uncomfortable scenario, does not act like that. they don't press their face close to the buttons, they don't wail their arms up in the air, they don't hold the sides of the elevator as in to steady their pace. her reactions are also way too quick to be sober. it would make a lot more sense for her to wait at least a minute or two between her actions instead of moving around every five seconds. one who is in a panic stays still and tries to listen to exterior noise, hides for a minute, steps out for a minute, but she is constantly moving around. she is definitely on something and i think someone gave it to her. it makes sense if she met someone on her trip -- she was taking meet-up requests on her tumblr -- and she might have met someone there. whoever it was, drugged her, or gave her too much to drink, or perhaps she overestimated how much alcohol she could handle. she then felt uncomfortable or sick, and told them that she has to go, and then enters the elevator and yes, presses the buttons to throw them off to what floor she was staying on and she is trying to coherently operate as she is in an altered state of mind. she then thinks that they are playing with the elevator controls, and peeps out. if she is looking at the mirror to see who is around here that means she has contacts on. i think the person catches up to her and when she does that weird thing with her hands she is upset and telling them something. but that is the way someone filled with fear + drugs/alcohol explains things, very dramatically and unable to control reactions. i then think she was going to take the staircase down -- but considering she'd have to go about 9 or 10 flights down to her floor, she went upstairs on the roof, either through the "alarm system" way or through that window at the end of the hallway to hide away from the person who was following her. it's also possible that this person didn't intend to hurt her, but was maybe trying to calm her down since she was in a vulnerable state. maybe seeing that she went on the roof caused them alarm and they went after her. whatever the case may be, she freaked out and took it as a chase. she ran onto the roof for safety, and that's when she saw the large water tanks and decided to hide behind them. it's possible that the person caught up to her, or was calling her name, and then she decided to climb in to get away from her follower and drowned. or maybe she fell in an unfortunate position that caused her to pass out and he threw her in the tank to not be held responsible for the situation. or maybe he accidentally or purposely killed her. i do believe that there was someone else involved, but i really believe that she is the one who went on the roof.

it's possible that after this person put her body in the tank to hide the evidence, he went and flushed her belongings to further hide the evidence that she was hanging in his room. this seems to me someone who is not adept at crimes, because why would you try to flush a phone and ID? it strikes me as someone who was also panicking. perhaps it was a young person who has never done this before. why would she be hanging out with an old man pedophile anyway?

i don't believe that there was an active security team watching the video. and i think the police is holding on to any evidence (such as whether she was found naked or not, or clothing items, etc) to further question suspects to find out whether anyone indeed was involved
 
I thought I read that her phone, her computer, her money and belongings were all found in her room.

I don't remember seeing that reported, but I could be wrong. Even the things that have been reported by msm are now being questioned. It's all very strange.
 
After spending some time watching the Elisa Lam elevator video online, I believe I'm formed a concept as to what happened during those moments.

Because of her lack of glasses, she couldn't remember which floor was hers, so she went to the 14th floor, because she remembered it was a middle button, perhaps confusing the floors "4" with "14". She tried to enter what she thought was her room, and this alerted the occupant of that room.

She comes back to the elevator but the original one she took is now somewhere else (that's a different tape), and she enters the 2nd elevator.

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

Start the video.

0:07, she's trying to read the numbers, but can't, so she just hits all the buttons in the middle row, and then hits the "HOLD DOOR" button, thinking it reads, "CLOSE DOOR".

00:20, the occupant has left the apartment, is holding the elevator button in the hall, and is outside the vision of the camera. He says calmly, "hey, get out of the elevator."

00:24, she checks the hallway, and sees the man standing by the button. She positions herself to view the the man, and is waiting for the elevator doors to shut. The occupant holds the button to the elevator, and calmly asks who she is.

00:37, She approaches the man and attempts to apologize.

00:48, the occupant tells her to get out of the elevator. She shyly and slowly begins to, but sees danger.

00:53, the occupant pulls out a gun, and this causes her to jump. The occupant is now telling her to come closer to him. She doesn't understand there's a camera in the elevator, while the occupant is fully aware of this.

1:03, the occupant grabs her at gunpoint, and tells her to get out of here or he'll kill her, he probably mugs her, and he releases her.

1:30, she enters the elevator and is terrified. In a panic, she hits all the middle buttons, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button. The man is telling her to leave, and she doesn't understand why she can't.

1:50, the occupant hits the button again and orders her to come back. She's in tears and is trying to say she's confused.

1:57, the occupant places his gun on the back of her head, and she's pulling away, giving the strange look about her arms.

2:05, the occupant grabs her neck, and gives her a yank and tells her to shut up, and she completely submits.

2:12, she begins begging for her life.

2:20, the occupant orders her to be quiet.

2:25, the occupant leads her away from the camera by her neck, and a gun to her head.

2:45 (aporox) the occupant lets go of the elevator button.

2:58, the elevator shuts, and begins going to the floors pressed.

It is my belief she was accosted by an occupant of the 14th floor, probably someone in a room with a fire escape access to the roof. My belief she's on the 14th floor is because of this picture...

http://i.imgur.com/we6I2JX.jpg

...this is a picture of the buttons in the elevator in that video. According to this, she kept hitting all the buttons in the middle row, in this order from top down, 14, 10, 7, 4, M, B, and "HOLD DOOR". She was staying on the 4th floor, and I believe made a simple error, due to not wearing her glasses, where she picked "14".

You'll notice in the video that the top button in the middle row does not light when she presses it. That is because, as you see in the photo, it's the 14th floor, and she's already there.

What happens then till she ended up in the tank is anyone's guess, but I believe her time was very quick. Check out this news report from Stephan Chase for KTLA News, specifically the testimony of Bernard Diaz starting about 1:30 in. He talks about an "explosion" that "knocked him out of bed".

http://ktla.com/2013/02/19/womans-body-found-in-cecil-hotel-water-tank-2/#axzz2LpWbGbvH

I believe this proves my concept that the killer forced her to climb into the tank, because he then followed, stuck his gun in the tank, and then shot her. Why else would he do this, unless she was alive going in? The reason why the suspect choose the watertank, was he was hoping the tank would muffle the sound of the gunshot, which it did, but the suspect didn't count on the sound traveling through the pipes and exploding into the room of Mr. Diaz.

I suspect the body's been in the watertank since Jan.30th, and shortly after this video.

I believe the suspect is an occupant (due to his knowledge of the camera) living on the 14th floor, and has access to the roof via a fire escape. His motive was because he mugged her at gunpoint, gave her a chance to leave, and she didn't leave.

I know the police are saying that the body was placed in the tank much later, and they can't find any wounds. If this is true, then what I believe happened is the suspect missed shooting Elisa, and simply shut the lid, latched it shut, and left her to die in the tank.



Welcome aboard FutzBucket.

I have to say though, there is no reason for me to believe that anybody was actually outside the hallway, holding the door elevator button.


The elevator door not closing was all due in part of Elisa Lam pressing the DOOR HOLD button and unbeknownst to it.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]



Watch starting at 0:11.

Right at 0:13, the elevator door is about to close (as it should be) UNTIL Elisa Lam presses the final button on the bottom of the elevator panel -- which is the DOOR HOLD button. This triggers the elevator door to retract back and stay open.

we6I2JX.jpg



The DOOR HOLD button is on the middle row, last button on the bottom.
 
In the second thread I mentioned that I think the killer chose putting her into the tank or forcing her into the tank herself to buy himself the most time to escape. I imagine he disposed of the body that night and checked out THE MORNING of Feb 1st. The police would have checked into this and am sure know who theyre looking for now.

They just wont call it a suicide or homicide bcos the cause of death is OD.

This is all IMO but I believe it very strongly.

He didn't leave Feb 1st ... unless he was anyway scheduled to leave then. Too cold, too controlled for such a panic reaction. And he probably flushed clothes, maybe ripped to pieces. Not the cell phone. Because if a cell phone sticks in a pipe, you won't get it out there without a plumber and some big act (ask people with four year olds ...). So, how to get rid of everything made from plastic, everything, he couldn't flush? Easiest way, take a walk the next morning and drop it in one of the public garbage cans along the street. Those things at bus stops (no native speaker, so sorry, but I can't remember the right term right now).
 
I already acknowledged it was outdated.

And look at the floor plan of the 14th floor where the mirror is and look at the CCTV footage of Elisa Lam's hallway floor.



img0000037a26.gif


They don't match. The hallway wall is too short where the mirror is on the 14th floor outline picture, compared to the hallway two white pillars on the CCTV footage.


Although, now I notice a discrepancy in the floor plan picture, which excluded those two white pillars beside the wall where the mirror is located.

I can still see the two pillars in this updated picture. Two pillars then a 45 degree wall.

How can you say that the little bit of the wall that you can see on the right of the second pillar in the video isnt angled at 45 degrees?

Look on the floor plan it shows the wall angled that way.

If that wall wasnt angled at all then your theory would hold up.
 
Welcome aboard FutzBucket.

I have to say though, there is no reason for me to believe that anybody was actually outside the hallway, holding the door elevator button.


The elevator door not closing was all due in part of Elisa Lam pressing the DOOR HOLD button and unbeknownst to it.

This is correct. She presses that weird door hold button which I am not familiar ever seeing in an elevator but has been reported to keep a door open for up to 3 minutes! Are u kidding me I dont want to wait 30 seconds let alone 3 minutes.

The door hold button is different as well than the door open and door close button.

Im not sure she ever presses door close.
 
Welcome aboard FutzBucket.
Right at 0:13, the elevator door is about to close (as it should be) UNTIL Elisa Lam presses the final button on the bottom of the elevator panel -- which is the DOOR HOLD button. This triggers the elevator door to retract back and stay open.

Cut by me to address this point..

I thought about this for a while.. and here is the problem Turk. The timing. We can agree that, most likely, the door is set to stay open for a certain period of time.

Last night I did the math both ways, from when she first (and in my opinion DEFINITELY) hits the door hold button until the door closes and also from the second time she hits all the buttons (as close as I could see her having hit it a second time given the quality of the video) and both times were random. Not even close to something you would think would be a pre-programmed hold time.

I will do it again and present the two times..
 
Ceefry, I'm new, so still learning how to reply and all that, sorry this is sloppy.

1) The level of control. As pointed out by a member here she is very easily able to go in and out of the elevator. Had she been getting robbed this would not be the case.

That's the thing, this wasn't a robbery at first. This started as a "who the heck is this trying to get into my room".

2) Begging for her life? She shows no sign of that. Begging for your life IMO would be more of her screaming or fighting to get away from that person. She remains a certain level of calmness in this video to suggest that she knows this person.

The man has a gun, and she's unaware of the camera. The second that man pulled a gun, she lost control. As for interpreting her body language, I really don't see anything calm about her.

3) if she was shot ................. it would be reported as a homicide.

Possibly. They could be withholding information. Also, I believe I listed my thought that if she wasn't shot, then that only means the suspect missed and closed her in the tank alive to eventually die.

Also the video is taken on Feb 1st if im not mistaken around 1:23 AM.

I was under the believe this video was taken on the night of the 30th. Well, whenever Mr. Diaz heard the shot (the night before Mr. Diaz learned Elisa was missing), was when she was ordered into the tank.
 
He didn't leave Feb 1st ... unless he was anyway scheduled to leave then. Too cold, too controlled for such a panic reaction. And he probably flushed clothes, maybe ripped to pieces. Not the cell phone. Because if a cell phone sticks in a pipe, you won't get it out there without a plumber and some big act (ask people with four year olds ...). So, how to get rid of everything made from plastic, everything, he couldn't flush? Easiest way, take a walk the next morning and drop it in one of the public garbage cans along the street. Those things at bus stops (no native speaker, so sorry, but I can't remember the right term right now).

IMO That doesnt make sense.

You question why he would leave? Possibly because he just killed someone and doesnt want to be caught?

Why would you flush clothes?? You can easily hide those in a bag or garbage.

Why would you flush ID? Well you dont want to be caught with someones ID do you?Especially not someone you just killed. And as well a phone these days is almost a form of ID
 
This is correct. She presses that weird door hold button which I am not familiar ever seeing in an elevator but has been reported to keep a door open for up to 3 minutes! Are u kidding me I dont want to wait 30 seconds let alone 3 minutes.

The door hold button is different as well than the door open and door close button.

Im not sure she ever presses door close.

we6I2JX.jpg


That DOOR HOLD button is used for staff workers and temporary emergency situations.

The <|> (open door) button is the one that opens the elevator doors and lasts a few seconds to allow last second people to get inside the elevator before it closes.

The >|< (close door) button is the one that closes the elevator door if nobody else is going inside.


The DOOR HOLD button is the one that lasts variably up to 3 minutes or less. They are on most elevators in buildings such as hospitals that require staff to keep the door open to haul in large metal crate trucks/carts storing laundry/food, or emergency crew pushing stretchers inside.
 
An interesting read if you understand Chinese...LINK. it says a Chinese man Mr. Ren, who currently resides in L.A., checked in Cecil around 2/23 with his friends to carry out their own "investigation" and got a room on the 14th floor, and he took a snapshot of the panel in the elevator that EL walked in. The button for the 15th floor had been dug out. The "door hold" button is said to be working fine and can keep the door open for a long time. (The door hold button doesn't work in the other elevator though.)

_240225lam03.jpg
 
Ceefry, I'm new, so still learning how to reply and all that, sorry this is sloppy.

1) The level of control. As pointed out by a member here she is very easily able to go in and out of the elevator. Had she been getting robbed this would not be the case.

That's the thing, this wasn't a robbery at first. This started as a "who the heck is this trying to get into my room".

2) Begging for her life? She shows no sign of that. Begging for your life IMO would be more of her screaming or fighting to get away from that person. She remains a certain level of calmness in this video to suggest that she knows this person.

The man has a gun, and she's unaware of the camera. The second that man pulled a gun, she lost control. As for interpreting her body language, I really don't see anything calm about her.

3) if she was shot ................. it would be reported as a homicide.

Possibly. They could be withholding information. Also, I believe I listed my thought that if she wasn't shot, then that only means the suspect missed and closed her in the tank alive to eventually die.

Also the video is taken on Feb 1st if im not mistaken around 1:23 AM.

I was under the believe this video was taken on the night of the 30th. Well, whenever Mr. Diaz heard the shot (the night before Mr. Diaz learned Elisa was missing), was when she was ordered into the tank.

Hey its no problem! I enjoy reading your post because as I said its almost word for word my first impression of the situation too! However if you go back and read my theory in thread 2 I have changed my tune since significantly.

Her room isnt on the 14th floor as far as we all know. Her room was on the 4th floor.

Which asks why was she on the 14th floor? Well its pretty clear someone on that floor either knows her or she knows them because this girl has been described as acting playful which i fully agree with.

At no point in this movie do I see terror on this girl. Which to me completely eliminates a gun or robbery.
 
Cut by me to address this point..

I thought about this for a while.. and here is the problem Turk. The timing. We can agree that, most likely, the door is set to stay open for a certain period of time.

Last night I did the math both ways, from when she first (and in my opinion DEFINITELY) hits the door hold button until the door closes and also from the second time she hits all the buttons (as close as I could see her having hit it a second time given the quality of the video) and both times were random. Not even close to something you would think would be a pre-programmed hold time.

I will do it again and present the two times..

It's because a few seconds are missing in the video. The camera stops recording when there's no movement and starts again when the door closes. We can't determine the exact duration because the timestamp is unreadable, but it's most likely 3 minutes.
 
Cut by me to address this point..

I thought about this for a while.. and here is the problem Turk. The timing. We can agree that, most likely, the door is set to stay open for a certain period of time.

Last night I did the math both ways, from when she first (and in my opinion DEFINITELY) hits the door hold button until the door closes and also from the second time she hits all the buttons (as close as I could see her having hit it a second time given the quality of the video) and both times were random. Not even close to something you would think would be a pre-programmed hold time.

I will do it again and present the two times..




On her 2nd attempt to press all the middle row column buttons, she actually presses the DOOR HOLD button multiple times, disabling it and enabling it and then actually ends up pressing it for the last time which unfortunately enabled the DOOR HOLD once again -- resetting the timer again.
 
An interesting read if you understand Chinese...LINK. it says a Chinese man Mr. Ren, who currently resides in L.A., checked in Cecil around 2/23 with his friends to carry out their own "investigation" and got a room on the 14th floor, and he took a snapshot of the panel in the elevator that EL walked in. The button for the 15th floor was dug out. The "door hold" button is said to be working fine and can keep the door open for a long time. (The door hold button doesn't work in the other elevator though.)

1361OW5ARP-351G.jpg

THANK YOU FEI!! That is a huge piece of information and I think even gives us our main suspect. MR.R. Why would these people suspect their own friend of murder?? thats so wild.

That elevator is missing the 15th button. Thats why shes on the 14th floor because the elevator button to 15 is gone! Wow what a tip this is.
 
An interesting read if you understand Chinese...LINK. it says a Chinese man Mr. Ren, who currently resides in L.A., checked in Cecil around 2/23 with his friends to carry out their own "investigation" and got a room on the 14th floor, and he took a snapshot of the panel in the elevator that EL walked in. The button for the 15th floor was dug out. The "door hold" button is said to be working fine and can keep the door open for a long time. (The door hold button doesn't work in the other elevator though.)

1361OW5ARP-351G.jpg


The 15th floor button was dug out on the elevator Elisa was in? Strange.

Was it recently done before the CCTV video done on late hours of Jan31st - early hour of Feb.1st?

Why was that button dug out to begin with? Was there somebody trying to cover up their tracks?

smeinzer, do you recall going on the elevator around Feb.7th-10th during your stay there at the Cecil Hotel/Stay At Main and notice the 15th floor button missing?



watch



we6I2JX.jpg




THANK YOU FEI!! That is a huge piece of information and I think even gives us our main suspect. MR.R. Why would these people suspect their own friend of murder?? thats so wild.

That elevator is missing the 15th button. Thats why shes on the 14th floor because the elevator button to 15 is gone! Wow what a tip this is.




[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

I don't think you can jump to that conclusion just yet. That still does not disprove her being on the 15th floor already and then the elevator going down the 14th floor after. I'm just not convinced yet.



And remember, she could of simply took the stairwell up the 15th floor.
 
It's because a few seconds are missing in the video. The camera stops recording when there's no movement and starts again when the door closes. We can't determine the exact duration because the timestamp is unreadable, but it's most likely 3 minutes.

I read that the timestamp jumps 2 minutes there. Ive watched it countless times and cant decipher it because at the time of the jump the timp stamp actually jitters about 3-4 times.

The only information I have on the timestamp is just opinion and that is IMO you can clearly see 1:23AM around the 1:20 mark of the video.
 
Hey its no problem! I enjoy reading your post because as I said its almost word for word my first impression of the situation too! However if you go back and read my theory in thread 2 I have changed my tune since significantly.

Her room isnt on the 14th floor as far as we all know. Her room was on the 4th floor.

Which asks why was she on the 14th floor? Well its pretty clear someone on that floor either knows her or she knows them because this girl has been described as acting playful which i fully agree with.

At no point in this movie do I see terror on this girl. Which to me completely eliminates a gun or robbery.

Yes, I agree her room is on the 4th floor, I believe she somehow made the mistake of going to the 14th floor by accident, and she tried to use her key on the wrong room.

I know, this seems far fetched, but I've been working in hotels for years, and this kind of thing happens. Almost always, the person in the room is freaked out, thinking someone's trying to break in their room. Now consider a hotel in Skid Row, where chances are someone IS trying to break in your room, and chances are you're a paranoid drug addict.
 
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