CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[ThinkHard]

Yes, I'm used to people thinking this. "What, so, he killed her for knocking on his door? C'mon, man, who would do that?"

I'd tell you who would do that, your typical resident at the Cecil Hotel.

The reason why you're having such a problem understanding this, is because you're sane, and you have a concept to the value of another person's life. These people typically don't. Your typical person living in the Skid Row area has absolutely no concept to the value of another person's life.

Skid Row is filled with paranoid schizophrenics, drug addicts, and criminals.

Ok I hear you...so surely they would have had someone disturb them before, and been pissed about it....so why's this the first body that ends up in the tank? Why's this girl different?

 

[OCSlacker]

But I said btw 50-60, (as an example)

I don't know btw day in night in LA what the average temp is. So I went with guessing it was likely closer on average to btw 50-60 at night in LA in FEb. and thus gave the approximate survival times for that temp range.

It was pretty cold here around the 1st from what I remember.. been getting down in the 40's some nights. Not sure if it was the same week but I recall getting up about 5am a few weeks ago and it was only 37 degrees.. brrrrrrr, I did not move to so cal and pay as much as i do in rent to have the same weather that they have back on the east coast was my first thought. Highly doubt she went in alive.. Wouldn't you make as much of ruckus as possible if that were you.. just don't see it happening

 

[morphee]

Thanks, this could be very important. 4 minutes of soundless video and an armchair imagination cannot come close to this personal account, if true. It sounds legit. I'll try to find the original LA Times article you refer to, but it would be great if you could post a link.

I don't know how to post a link from my phone, but the main EL LA Times article about "unexplained death, theories" will show the aforementioned comments. FYI... he
claims to have gone to LE, and given the very public FB comment, I'm inclined to believe him.

 

[ThinkHard]

- I also assume that this type of undressing does not occur when one goes overboard into the ocean while sailing

To continue, if said person isn't submerged entirely, water level is mostly around waist (fluctuates) and temperaure 60-70F: what would be the survival time? if said person cannot escape?
- and attempts by shouting or banging on water tank does not result in anyone noticing and thus, rescue?

Well the evening air temperatures were closer to 50-60, I'm not sure how to determine how that would relate to the tanks temps, I have no idea if they are regulated, and what the instillation on those tanks is like.

If it was around 50-60 in the water and it was at least waist high in theory she could have up to 6 hrs.

If it was warmer, longer, up to about 2 days.

But longer of course would mean she could bang around as you said.

Btw I do not for a second believe she went into that tank alive, that was another posters theory, that she was put in and died of hypothermia.

I simply added the given that scenario a conceivable length of time she could have survived.

I never said I thought that's what happened.

 

[Sillybilly]

I live in Toronto and can confirm they're closed, for a while now. Eglinton Ave is nowhere near where she stayed here (Backpackers hotel), and nowhere near where she shopped which are the financial district and annex area. It would be really doubtful that a tourist would seek out that stretch of Eglinton. I don't know what you mean about Spadina and Richmond but can reply if you clarify. I work near there. There's an organic restaurant there, but it is not owned by a cult! (It's called Fresh)

I havent followed this cult theory too much, as I happen to think it is a bit of a stretch... but I would say (with respect) to be careful linking WOOFFing with cults though (or linking cults with organic food?)-- WOOFFING is a widespread, longstanding practice on many conventional farms. Farms get free help in exchange for giving out board. For the WOOFFer it provides free accommodation and food and fraternity with other young travellers. It's something like tree planting, which alot of people here in Canada go off to do. A kind of grown up 'camp'. I can see a cults using this to lure someone I suppose, but the vast majority of WOOFFers are on plain old family or company run farms.

I take this idea as A) as something more of an altruistic notion she had--wanting to do something 'useful' or 'good' while travelling and/or B) to meet other young people who weren't only interested in clubs etc, as she seemed not to really be into nightlife(on her blog).

Just some thoughts, among a thousand others ..

There's a sex offender (PAJC) here in Canada was released from prison in 2003.. He owned a horse ranch in Alberta and used to advertise on WOOFF sites and in Chinese newspapers for Asian girls to come to his ranch for work. I hear he's still up to it as recently as last year. I only mention this, certainly not to insinuate Carson would be involved .. only that these creeps will go to any lengths to fulfil their sick fantasies, and while WOOFF sounds very wholesome, it is not immune to having creeps and predators advertising within its ranks.

I'd be really interested in how EL ended up in LA when her original plan was San Diego to Santa Cruz. What was it that sidetracked her to LA? If LA was such a lure, why was it not part of her original itinerary? What did she do or who did she contact that could have possibly made her divert from her original plan?

 

[LI-LI]

I am blind as a bat without my glasses and at times if I have already taken my contacts off I will still go about trying to find my way. Granted not often, but if I were thinking hey, just gonna go down a couple of floors and grab a soda I might do that rather than go through my packed clothes looking for my glasses.. I've actually been in a similar circumstance were I thought the soda machine was down the hall and ended up three floors above my room only to still not find a machine and go back to my room in frustration. Granted it went from a 1 minute down the hall to 5-10 minutes roaming a hotel, not what I planned but that happens. I don't like not being able to see perfectly but I choose to do that rather than hassle with my packed luggage or bother with putting contacts on again..

Would you dare to walk around in a hotel you're not familiar with during midnight without your glasses on? If not, that should have proved that she was sleepwalking.

 

[Xavier]

Didn't they say roof was also accessible by fire escape?

Thanks for the reply Doruk -- I've been hearing the fire escape gives access to the roof

But my point is how did someone open the massive water tanks if they're tightly secured and locked?

Someone needed Master keys to unlock the water tanks

 

[FutzBucket]

Ok I hear you...so surely they would have had someone disturb them before, and been pissed about it....so why's this the first body that ends up in the tank? Why's this girl different?

Because this girl was actually a nice girl. She thought that if she just did everything this man told her to, that he'd have no reason to kill her.

The reason why it was so easy for him to get her into the tank, was because she was a nice girl. Like so many others, she couldn't believe this man would kill her for such a petty reason.

 

[morphee]

Just some thoughts, among a thousand others ..

There's a sex offender (PAJC) here in Canada was released from prison in 2003.. He owned a horse ranch in Alberta and used to advertise on WOOFF sites and in Chinese newspapers for Asian girls to come to his ranch for work. I hear he's still up to it as recently as last year. I only mention this, certainly not to insinuate Carson would be involved .. only that these creeps will go to any lengths to fulfil their sick fantasies, and while WOOFF sounds very wholesome, it is not immune to having creeps and predators advertising within its ranks.

I'd be really interested in how EL ended up in LA when her original plan was San Diego to Santa Cruz. What was it that sidetracked her to LA? If LA was such a lure, why was it not part of her original itinerary?

It's LA! Either she thought of it herself or someone suggested it, but it only makes sense for a girl on that road trip to want to stop off there. I did the same thing when my girls and I changed our trip route in my youth just to get there for like one night.

 

[Doruk]

It was pretty cold here around the 1st from what I remember.. been getting down in the 40's some nights. Not sure if it was the same week but I recall getting up about 5am a few weeks ago and it was only 37 degrees.. brrrrrrr, I did not move to so cal and pay as much as i do in rent to have the same weather that they have back on the east coast was my first thought.

Wrong. Assuming EL was in tank on Jan 31, 2013, temperature at 2am was 63 degree F. Temp remains steady at 63 degree F til 11am at which it CLIMBED to 67F then continued climbing to 76 degree F at 3pm Feb 1, 2013.

EL would NOT have perished in that 2-6 hour period other poster stated.

http://www.friendlyforecast.com/usa...eles-California&date=20130130000000&sort=hour

 

[Doruk]

Thanks for the reply Doruk -- I've been hearing the fire escape gives access to the roof

But my point is how did someone open the massive water tanks if they're tightly secured and locked?

Someone needed Master keys to unlock the water tanks

Where does it say the water tanks were locked?

 

[Ravenz]

Snipped

Btw I do not for a second believe she went into that tank alive, that was another posters theory, that she was put in and died of hypothermia.

I simply added the given that scenario a conceivable length of time she could have survived.

I never said I thought that's what happened.

Oh, I am not against the theory that she was dead before being put into the tank. That is certainly a possibility too. I am considering the opposite because:
(1) It is probably a little hard to carry a 115 pounds dead body weight up fire escapes and ladders
(2) She was missing for 3 weeks
--> could she have been kept alive, drugged for a certain amount of time in a room (1-3/4/5 days)?
--> and then brought up there and asked to climb in (surviving for another day or two)?

This way, police have completed their searches before she died
--> i.e. delay the time taken for police to find the dead body less investigative effort if person is missing as compare to deceased?

 

[Figuring]

Just some thoughts, among a thousand others ..

There's a sex offender (PAJC) here in Canada was released from prison in 2003.. He owned a horse ranch in Alberta and used to advertise on WOOFF sites and in Chinese newspapers for Asian girls to come to his ranch for work.

I'd be really interested in how EL ended up in LA when her original plan was San Diego to Santa Cruz. What was it that sidetracked her to LA? If LA was such a lure, why was it not part of her original itinerary? What did she do or who did she contact that could have possibly made her divert from her original plan?

I hear you about WOOFFing! I know some people who did this and had great times in Europe,etc... but I can't imagine staying somewhere so isolated with a total stranger. No way.

My understanding is her itinerary included LA --from her blog Jan 13:

Planning planning planning for the West Coast tour…

Sigh turns out I won’t be making as many stops as I’d like

Vancouver, San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Cruz and San Francisco

I really want to stop by San Luis Obispo but alas…we’ll see

Suggestions and meet-ups still highly appreciated

?

Link: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40401259146/planning-planning-planning-for-the-west-coast

 

[Doruk]

Would you dare to walk around in a hotel you're not familiar with during midnight without your glasses on? If not, that should have proved that she was sleepwalking.

No. Doesn't prove sleepwalking. Could simply be awake and walked about without glasses.

 

[samevo8]

My thoughts are her original plans included LA.

Jan 6 "Meet-up applications now accepted for Vancouver, San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, San Luis Opispo, Santa Cruz, San Jose and San Francisco. " (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39814624647/next-leg-of-my-whirlwind-adventure-the-west)

Jan 13: "Planning planning planning for the West Coast tour…

Sigh turns out I won’t be making as many stops as I’d like

Vancouver, San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Cruz and San Francisco

I really want to stop by San Luis Obispo but alas…we’ll see" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40401259146/planning-planning-planning-for-the-west-coast)

Just some thoughts, among a thousand others ..


I'd be really interested in how EL ended up in LA when her original plan was San Diego to Santa Cruz. What was it that sidetracked her to LA? If LA was such a lure, why was it not part of her original itinerary? What did she do or who did she contact that could have possibly made her divert from her original plan?

 

[OCSlacker]

Would you dare to walk around in a hotel you're not familiar with during midnight without your glasses on? If not, that should have proved that she was sleepwalking.

Yes, I am a night owl, tend to get hungry around 12-1 in the morning for a snack, and can say with absolute certainty that I have on at least one occasion done that exact thing. Yes, even in a sketchy hotel, especially when I was in my teens- 20's because I always thought, nah, nothing can happen to me, I'll only be a minute. I still go about and explore new places to this day in the middle of the night, but when I am roaming around I do tend to wear my contacts. Not always if I am just going down the hall or a floor or two below/above looking for a snack or soda machine though. This whole thing has creeped me out, so doubt I'll be doing that anymore.

 

[ThinkHard]

Don't forget the variation in individual temperature tolerance thresholds.

Do you know how the medical examiner assesses death by hypothermia?

Individual tolerances would be accounted for in the range of time.

I am not a medical examiner so I have no clue how hypothermia death would be determined. I'm sure you can look it up if you are interested. I personally don't think that she was alive when her body entered the tank, so IMO I really do not believe hypothermia would have been the cause of death.

 

[Ravenz]

No. Doesn't prove sleepwalking. Could simply be awake and walked about without glasses.

Unfortunately, does any one know what is her eyesight without glasses?

 

[samevo8]

I'm curious as to how Tumblr works. Looking at http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/archive I originally thought the archive ended at Feb 1 but was abbreviated (ie: less traffic than normal) then when I checked again, I saw that there were new reposts. That is, for some reason there are two February 2013's, one that ends Feb 1 and one that ends Feb 18th. Is there a way to get a timestamp on the last Feb 1 posting? I'm wondering if there are ways to check if reposts are auto generated or manual in nature.

Of course, I'm wondering this cause I'm curious if EL had done any manual reposting on Tumblr on Feb 1. An abbreviated Feb 1 could indicate a late Jan 31st night/early Feb 1 morning of activity.

Also, anyone have a timestamp of the hotel video (I'm sure it's somewhere on one of the many threads)?

No. Doesn't prove sleepwalking. Could simply be awake and walked about without glasses.

 

[ErnestBorgnine]

I think it was middle of the night only because there is no one around on any of the floors waiting for the elevator except her.

I also think it was at night because of the way she's dressed, loose clothing, basketball shorts, to sneak a shower or bath at a clean floor instead of the grimy bathrooms in the low-income unkempt floors - if she was staying on one of those floors.

By the way, in the video I think she's counting the days she stayed at the hotel.

I stayed at that hotel. Rarely did I see anyone at the elevators. We are talking about 600-700 rooms, of which I would say 60 are occupied. Just a rough guess. But based on lobby traffic, they were not even close to capacity.