CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[BuzzieCat]

Just want to add to this. I have seen many many words attached to Elisa (I think mostly because of the video) like psychosis, drugged, bi polar (which may be true), and even crazy.

No matter what state she was in it still doesn't explain how she got access to the roof and then the water tank. That is the key to the case to me. Who got her up there?

I must have missed the post where anyone called her crazy. Mental illness is still basically the same as any other illness such as diabetes or heart disease, it simply manifests with different symptoms. Some attach a stigma to mental illness and refer to the mentally ill as "crazy." But simply to suggest that the actions someone is displaying could be similar to those of a mental illness is NOT the same as saying that the person is "crazy."

 

[SCHMAE]

Unintended suicide, I think would be the most appropriate term.

But in my opinion I'm not sure this is a strong possibility given the manner she died.

Also I'm very curious if she was clothed or not. Because we don't know that for sure yet. But if she was undressed, and her clothing has not been located....then I would think it is unlikely someone else was not involved.

Also people keep saying that they don't think someone could have climbed a ladder while carrying a body.....

Don't firemen do this? I mean they are going down not up....but couldn't someone fireman carry a petite female up a ladder?

They probably leave a bruise on the body though. The lack of any marks on the body is what's throwing me.

 

[winterwilde]

Hello, reading this website for years, but this case fascinates me and prompted me to register.

The BIG question for me was WHY WAS ELISA TAKING THIS TRIP? WHAT WAS HER STATE OF MIND?

THIS IS ALL MY OPINION: I'm an internet researcher and I found a website in Chinese where it looks as though they have pulled all of Elisa's photos and posts from her actual Facebook page and posted them on their site. I conclude this because the only things in English that I could read without a translation program were her posts from the last 5 months or so. If the posts were actually written by Elisa and I believe they are due to so many specific people and places she mentions and the tone of the posts.

From what I read, ( AND I AM PARAPHRASING) Elisa had been on another trip a month or 2 before this USA trip and her family was bugging her about packing and prepping for this CA. trip. ( why all these trips and no school?) She mentioned days where she didn't feel so good ( mentally) and how she couldn't wait to fly out of there ( home, I guess).

She mentioned how if she told/ communicated to her family some of her feelings regarding her moods, especially the low end, her family would become so worried about her that she didn't want to deal with it. Which suggests to me her family was aware or had some experience with changes in her emotional/mental state and they were trying the best the they know how to work with her and whatever her issues were.

She also mentioned several times in late February meeting a person in San Diego or just random mentions of some person or perhaps different people and how she wanted to get close to them and how she wanted to hold their hand. She seemed to mention individuals that she came into contact with in San Diego and was attracted to, but unsure how to proceed.

I have been diagnosed with several things which is why after reading her posts, I could believe the person writing them was dealing with mental/emotional ups and downs and trying to figure out how to live her life without alarming her family when she felt her mood begin to shift toward deep depression.

When I was Elisa's age, I took a huge trip from a small rural place to a large one with a friend and I felt NO FEAR whatsoever DURING THE MONTHS I was traveling and sleeping in my car at rest stops in different states and cheap motels ( no drugs or alcohol were involved) I just wanted to escape from where I was and I wanted excitement. I WAS MANIC. I met some people who I thought were nice to me and I took some chances that now thinking back on them make me shudder. I WAS MANIC. I was euphoric and knew that my trip had a purpose and NO one WAS GOING TO TALK ME OUT OF IT. I smiled and chatted with everyone and believed people truly wanted to help me and be my friend. I WAS MANIC.

My opinion: Elisa came on this USA trip in an attempt to escape from what was bothering her back home in Canada, not realizing " wherever you go, there you are".

She had some mood swings, she met some people she thought were friends, she was playful and young in a hotel where young and playful signal PREY.
She was either slipped something in a beverage or she couldn't fight back her own personal demons any longer and they became obvious to those around her and either way, this poor girl was PREY.

JUST MY OPINION, AND SORRY FOR WRITING A BOOK. Elisa's case haunts me because I was Elisa many years ago and her sad ending could have been mine.

I weep for her family and friends.

 

[samevo8]

Interestingly, this tumblr post about how to make friends seems to be in line with inappropriate talking:

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/...-meet-people-and-possibly-make-friends-in-two

Elisa talking in an inappropriate way to other bookstore customers would fit right in with mania. One of the tell-tale signs is an inability to stop talking, and "pressured speech." Spending tons of money also fits right in. She probably was not sleeping (probably nervous bc she was in such a creepy environment and she was alone so had no one to talk to).
...

More and more I am starting to question how LE is acting. I'm new to this, so maybe others can shed some light. The timeline is also weird, why did they release the video a whole week after she was reported missing? Why release it at all? To make her look crazy, to figure out who she was talking to?

 

[ShyGamer]

Interestingly, this tumblr post about how to make friends seems to be in line with inappropriate talking:

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/...-meet-people-and-possibly-make-friends-in-two

I don't think she is being serious though?

 

[GlobalGirlyGirl]

I'm new to this site. I found it when I was looking into the case of Sarai Sierra, the woman found deceased in Turkey. I've read almost all of the posts on that case. Now, I have been intrigued by this one. Plus, the attention to detail a lot of sleuthers on here is very impressive. I don't think I'm adding anything new, but this case leaves me with so many questions.

The video has to be one of the creepiest I have seen in a while. Really disturbing. I honestly think something spooked her in that hallway. She seems calm when she enters the elevator the first time. The second time, she looks disheveled. Then, she starts pressing buttons randomly and in a frantic fashion. Also, I think she was talking to someone in the hallway with the gesturing.

The information that stuck out to me was the "Italian" or "Mexican" guy she didn't want following her.

From that, I think she encountered him by the elevator and talked her way out of it. She leaves to go back to her room. Sometime after, I don't know if hours or days, she meets her demise. The person who did this to her knows the building well. I'm thinking a longer term tenant or staff. I see the person dragging her body to the roof. The duffel bag seems plausible. If the person was a tenant, they went via the fire escape. If a staff member, they would be able to or know how to turn off the alarm to the roof. I think then they dragged the body up the stairs to the roof of that small building and dropped her body down to one of the tanks. From there, they put her in one of the tanks. The lids of the tanks throws me off. There is that square opening. I don't think anyone could fit through there. Does that entire round lid come off? Either way, I believe someone put her there.

Now, I read just in this thread that LE is ruling out foul play? If that is the case, I got nothin'. I don't see how she would have opened the lid, got in, and closed it behind her - especially how there is no ladder on the tank.

There are many plausible theories I've read here, and my mind is running in circles. All I know is I really hope the reports come back ASAP so they can figure out what happened to her.

This was an absolute tragedy. My condolences to her family. RIP, Elisa.

 

[skyfitsheaven]

I have a question for people who know at least something about psychology here.

I haven't looked too thoroughly at her Tumblr (I feel a bit creepy reading it) but this post caught my eye. I know you can't know much about someone based on a post made on a social network, but Elisa seemed really open on there. There's this one bizarre post that doesn't fit in with her other ones, and it's quite old. I was just wondering if this could suggest psychosis rather than (or on top of ) mania:



snipped from here: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

And if it's possible that she experienced psychosis as a side of bipolar/hypomania, I guess it is possible that she thought she was hiding from something in the tank. (Though more likely, in my view, that she was preyed upon by someone who took advantage of her state)

My (extremely layperson understanding) of psychosis is that it indicates a temporary detachment from reality, while hypomania is a surge of manic energy? The "absolute certainty" about understanding the universe is a feeling that suggests detachment from reality to me. I wonder if she had difficulty expressing that to a doctor or therapist.

Based on my own person experiences with pyschiatrists, they knew she had all these issues. Where they deeply failed her was in giving her two antidepressants and a stimulant. She was deeply medicated but the Adderrall and Wellbutrin probably squashed whatever the Lamictal (a mood stabilizer) was doing.

What is the website where her Facebook statuses and photos are posted? Would love to see that. It seems like her friends and family are being much friendlier to the Chinese media.

 

[Turk February]

I would like it if we can determine how easy it is for people to get past the fire escapes and if the door was in fact not as secure as LAPD and Cecil Hotel Management had stated.

Then again, if she was found naked in the water tank floating face up in the 3/4 full water tank -- how do you explain her missing clothes if she went inside the water tank on her own accord?




Just throwing this video up again.

ANYBODY could of been able to get up the rooftops, since Feb.14th, 2012

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K-UQP2fPyc





Question is, HOW did they get up there?

Where they guests who had hotel rooms with windows situated next to the fire escape?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlnOqmzwZuQ"]Cecil Hotel- downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube[/ame]

Fast forward to 2:05 at this video above. There is a metal grate covering the access from the windows.




Also seems to be another fire escape located in the hallways at the Cecil Hotel. Are those alarmed and locked as well?


Was there a hanging fire escape ladder on the street level?

I remember a no tolerance policy of visitors going up the hotel floors at the Cecil Hotel.

Again, the rooftop entrance is locked, and has an alarm trigger that rings throughout the hotel if the door is opened. The alarm can be disabled if you have a special key to insert in the security panel. Only employees at the Cecil Hotel, specifically - Janitor, security, maintenance and management would have access to that key as well as keys to unlock the door up there.


If the theory that Elisa was murdered and then stuffed into a duffel bag for example - somehow had access to scale up the fire escape ladder WHILE carrying the duffel bag that contained a 5'4" tall, 130ish pound heavy woman;

That would mean this person has considerable strength. Security guards for example are required to have a strong physique.


What about the residents? I know the Cecil Hotel had a registered sex offender living there.


Lots of variables here.
__________________

 

[fred&edna]

They probably leave a bruise on the body though. The lack of any marks on the body is what's throwing me.

Assuming she was already dead when being carried, I don't think a body bruises after death but I don't know.

 

[silsby]

My opinion: Elisa came on this USA trip in an attempt to escape from what was bothering her back home in Canada, not realizing " wherever you go, there you are".

Very respectfully snipped.

GREAT POST! The above phrase has rung so true in some of my past experiences, too. IMO, any way I look at it, Elisa's situation is a tragedy. I think that's why I care so much about this case.

I have to wonder if there's more video footage of Elisa in other locations that gives LE more clues to that puzzling behavior we see on the elevator. I love reading people's theories about, but I just don't know what to make of it. Every time a different theory is proposed, I can truly see it that way. Sigh.

 

[PopeReal]

I must have missed the post where anyone called her crazy. Mental illness is still basically the same as any other illness such as diabetes or heart disease, it simply manifests with different symptoms. Some attach a stigma to mental illness and refer to the mentally ill as "crazy." But simply to suggest that the actions someone is displaying could be similar to those of a mental illness is NOT the same as saying that the person is "crazy."

Sorry I should have been more clear. I was talking about other sites like youtube. I don't think I have seen anyone post the exact word crazy here. Thanks for your post!

I just feel some people around the internet have dehumanized her to a point and shifted blame towards her. However strange her actions may or may not have been doesn't mean she found a way to that roof and then inside a water tank alone.

 

[fred&edna]

I would like it if we can determine how easy it is for people to get past the fire escapes and if the door was in fact not as secure as LAPD and Cecil Hotel Management had stated.

Then again, if she was found naked in the water tank floating face up in the 3/4 full water tank -- how do you explain her missing clothes if she went inside the water tank on her own accord?


__________________

Uhmmm.... you might want to read some previous posts (just a page or two back) wrt missing clothes/nude body. I'm trying to obtain verification.

 

[samevo8]

I'm thinking that Elisa Lam, being in a proper state of mind, would have been mindful and (hyper)sensitive to this possibility.

Here are some of her thoughts on men and being careful if you're a woman:
http://etherfields.blogspot.com/2011/11/on-being-no-name-blogger-using-her-real.html

Note that in the same blog posting, she implies that she was raped at age 17 "If I’d not been born at all–*advertiser censored*, if I’d only had the foresight not to be born at all, I wouldn’t have been raped when I was 17, either."
Thus, I think she would have have personal experience to stay away from shifty/charming men.

There are some other postings in her tumblr account, including one that mentions that if you're a young girl and an older, charming man shows interest in you, he's basically interested in sex. I'd have to find that posting reference, but not sure how to go back and do a find on a tumbler account.

Just had this thought/theorie:

What if some charming man, with bad intentions, courted her and at nightime suggested that they should go up on the roof and look at the stars etc, maybe he even brought somthing to drink/eat? and when they were up there he suggested that they should go even higher up, on the water tank, and there he force her into the water tank or killed her in some other way, and droped her into the watertank.

 

[skyfitsheaven]

I would like it if we can determine how easy it is for people to get past the fire escapes and if the door was in fact not as secure as LAPD and Cecil Hotel Management had stated.

Then again, if she was found naked in the water tank floating face up in the 3/4 full water tank -- how do you explain her missing clothes if she went inside the water tank on her own accord?






What about the residents? I know the Cecil Hotel had a registered sex offender living there.


Lots of variables here.
__________________

I think we've determined that the Cecil's roof security was nonexistent. There is graffiti on the water tanks and numerous videos online of people going up to the roof. It is 100% possible. Someone even mentioned that there were people who squatted in the rooftop elevator maintenance room.

We know of at least two sex offenders who live in the building, alvin taylor and one other who's name escapes me. I feel that the person who did this is not a long term resident but a frequent visitor. My understanding is most of the SRO residents are sick and on long term disability, even the former sex offenders.

 

[Turk February]

I can't take that as a real confirmation just yet regarding her missing clothes


*snipped from summer_breeze*
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Au...631/story.html

VANCOUVER SUN FEBRUARY 25, 2013 9:40 AM

Same information, different source.

Let's see if the CKNW story issues an "update" at all....?

http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/s...spx?ID=1897213

 

[ThinkHard]

I have a question for people who know at least something about psychology here.

I haven't looked too thoroughly at her Tumblr (I feel a bit creepy reading it) but this post caught my eye. I know you can't know much about someone based on a post made on a social network, but Elisa seemed really open on there. There's this one bizarre post that doesn't fit in with her other ones, and it's quite old. I was just wondering if this could suggest psychosis rather than (or on top of ) mania:



snipped from here: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

And if it's possible that she experienced psychosis as a side of bipolar/hypomania, I guess it is possible that she thought she was hiding from something in the tank. (Though more likely, in my view, that she was preyed upon by someone who took advantage of her state)

My (extremely layperson understanding) of psychosis is that it indicates a temporary detachment from reality, while hypomania is a surge of manic energy? The "absolute certainty" about understanding the universe is a feeling that suggests detachment from reality to me. I wonder if she had difficulty expressing that to a doctor or therapist.

IMHO this reads more as mania than psychosis. This mania can sometimes cause people to feel like the world is clear, and they are wasting their time on trivial things.

Manic Episode
mental disorder
When an individual experiences a discrete period of persistent and pervasive manic (elated, irritable or euphoric) mood, this term may be applied. The individual may be diagnosed with one of the bipolar disorders.
Diagnostic criteria for Manic Episode

(DSM IV - TR)
(cautionary statement)
A. A distinct period of abnormally and persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting at least 1 week (or any duration if hospitalization is necessary).

B. During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:

(1) inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
(2) decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
(3) more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
(4) flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
(5) distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
(6) increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
(7) excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., engaging in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)

Sources (http://behavenet.com/manic-episode)


I copy and pasted part of the characteristics for the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for a manic episode.

These thoughts appear to be racing, thoughts of grandeur, the idea that you have it all figured out when no one else does.

 

[Sillybilly]

I have a question for people who know at least something about psychology here.

I haven't looked too thoroughly at her Tumblr (I feel a bit creepy reading it) but this post caught my eye. I know you can't know much about someone based on a post made on a social network, but Elisa seemed really open on there. There's this one bizarre post that doesn't fit in with her other ones, and it's quite old. I was just wondering if this could suggest psychosis rather than (or on top of ) mania:



snipped from here: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

And if it's possible that she experienced psychosis as a side of bipolar/hypomania, I guess it is possible that she thought she was hiding from something in the tank. (Though more likely, in my view, that she was preyed upon by someone who took advantage of her state)

My (extremely layperson understanding) of psychosis is that it indicates a temporary detachment from reality, while hypomania is a surge of manic energy? The "absolute certainty" about understanding the universe is a feeling that suggests detachment from reality to me. I wonder if she had difficulty expressing that to a doctor or therapist.

Sorry if I misunderstand tumblr, but on the right of that post you snipped, there is a little button that says "nouvelle-nouveau reglogged this". Does that not mean she brought it over from someone else? Or does it mean she blogged it on her page and then copied it over someplace else?

IOW, are these her own sentiments or someone else's that she found interesting?

 

[fred&edna]

Also, I've seen early reports that she was "wedged" in the tank. I don't know if this makes a difference, but I'm noting it.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=8999754

"February 20, 2013 (LOS ANGELES) -- Police say the body of a woman found wedged in a water tank on the roof of a downtown hotel is that of a missing Canadian guest."

I can't theorize, nor guess about her mental state, her medications or anything like that so... I'll just go with what's in the media (faulty as it may be)

 

[commspecialist]

IMHO this reads more as mania than psychosis. This mania can sometimes cause people to feel like the world is clear, and they are wasting their time on trivial things...

<<Respectfully snipped>>

Thanks very much, that makes a lot more sense now.

 

[Turk February]

Also, I've seen early reports that she was "wedged" in the tank. I don't know if this makes a difference, but I'm noting it.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=8999754

"February 20, 2013 (LOS ANGELES) -- Police say the body of a woman found wedged in a water tank on the roof of a downtown hotel is that of a missing Canadian guest."

I can't theorize, nor guess about her mental state, her medications or anything like that so... I'll just go with what's in the media (faulty as it may be)

wedged, indicating she was stuffed inside that small hatch opening in the water tank. Though other *later* reports says she was wedged right on the bottom of the tank.

CBSLA first reported live via aerial footage that the maintenance man found a body floating face up in the 3/4 full water tank. Also first typed articles from CBSLA indicate the body was nude.

Looking for that particular article now.