CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[Qrious]

I'm new here and I've been trying to make sense of her actions and gestures since learning about this case a week ago. And I found this website and have read more than a thousand posts right from the first post.

OMG, I'm shaking with excitement at the moment because I actually wanted to post here an interpretation that would make sense of all her gestures in and out of the elevator. But I was still not completely satisfied myself with not having found any significance to the numbers of the elevator buttons that Elisa had pressed. Then it came to my mind tonight to Google these numbers 14, 10, 7, 4 which are the numbers of the buttons she pressed. And OMG, guess what I found?

In John Chapter 4 of the Bible, a woman came to the well to draw water. These are the words of verses 7, 10 and 14:

John 4 - Christ Witnesses to the Woman at the Well

A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” (John 4:7 NKJV)

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” (John 4:10 NKJV)

but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” (John 4:14 NKJV)

Oh mine, my head is bursting with possible answers. This all may be just a coincidence but I think it now could make sense if it should turn out that it was not foul play. I do not know if Elisa read the bible but it could all fall in place if she had been under some kind of ambien sleepwalk as posted by ThinkHard in thread #1, or some other drugs, which could have caused her mind to play out a scenario close to the verses of John 4.

As for how she could have made her way to the water tank herself, I read posts here that said people were often seen on the rooftop. And I can see from pictures of the hotel that there are at least 2 fire escape stairs leading from the roof.

I am not jumping to conclusion here but it is a possibility and I hope and pray that Elisa is reunited with our Lord Jesus if the scenario described here turns out to be the case. I have originally wanted to post here an interpretation that is consistent with all the actions she did at the elevator but this has been superseded by what I have just discovered and have shared with you here about the numbers. I might post the interpretation if I have time tomorrow.

 

[CuriousB]

If a person is dies and is placed on some solid surface (ie, not floating in water), would the blood pooling or any bruising be characteristically different from if the person had been in the water while they died or soon after they died? I am inclined to think that if the body was stored on dry land for 14 days to avoid the water test, then there would be obvious signs showing that. Even if the body was placed in a full bath tub, the blood would probably still pool in some unnatural way.

Plus, how long does it take for a corpse to smell really bad?

I really doubt the perpetrator would have moved the body to the roof after a number of days. Even if his (or her) room was right by the fire escape.

I really appreciate the videos that the Chinese investigators are posting. (Though of course they would be purely for our benefit since the police would obviously already have access to what we're learning through those videos.) If anything it's a relief to see footage other than ones that look like they're out of horror movies.

 

[catatonia]

I read in a German article that she was last seen by a hostess and a receptionist of the hotel, who both stated they had never seen her together with someone else.

 

[summer_breeze]

Creating a timeline/media links thread as previously mentioned could be helpful. But even these three "facts" as published (links below) have come under dispute...

1) It was reported that her nude body was found, but posters have questioned this. (No reply from my email inquiry to the reporter for verification, btw)

2) It was reported that search dogs didn't detect her scent on the roof, but posters have said the dogs likely made a mistake.

3) It was reported that the interviewed resident (BDiaz who heard a "tremendous" noise above his room AND reported flooding on the fourth floor) has lived on the 3rd floor for 32 years, but posters have disputed this saying he actually lives on the 14th or 15th floors.

Are all three of these media reports faulty or could we be trying to make the facts fit our theories???

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-downtown-la-hotel/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...st-found-in-water-tank-of-skid-row-hotel.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...water-tank-at-cursed-cecil-hotel-8504729.html

Thank you fred&edna! I think a separate "IN DISPUTE" section would be good? As long as we can link to the differences in reported facts via MSM articles or other "official" information.

 

[Qrious]

Hi all. The elevator numbers 14 10 7 4 have significance I think. I just found something really intriguing. Please read my post #534 above.

 

[fred&edna]

Thank you fred&edna! I think a separate "IN DISPUTE" section would be good? As long as we can link to the differences in reported facts via MSM articles or other "official" information.

Great idea and especially with the BBM part! Thank you

 

[summer_breeze]

To all our newest members, Welcome to WebSleuths!

:welcome6:

 

[jon999]

Hi all. The elevator numbers 14 10 7 4 have significance I think. I just found something really intriguing. Please read my post #534 above.

It's an interesting theory but I think it's far-feched. A strange coincidence in my opinion. Not to mention she starts with 14 instead of 4.

I think the possible reasons she's pushing those buttons are (from most likely to least likely):

1. She's sleepwalking/on drugs/hallucinating/etc.
2. She's blind without her glasses and can't see the numbers, but she remembers her floor number is in the middle row.
3. She's playing a game of tag/hide-and-seek.
4. She's holding the elevator to prevent someone from using it.
5. She's just wandering around the hotel with no real goal.
6. It's some sort of code.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Someone brought up the idea of her corpse blocking the water runoff (don't know if this is the right term for it, I'm not a native English speaker) causing the big bang, some 89 year old hotel resident reported of.

A corpse put in water will first sink to the ground for approx. 7 days, as soon as enough gas is produced by the decomposition (depending on the water's temperature), it is going to rise up. As they know the temperature of the water in those tanks, it may be possible to say for how long her body has been floating in there approximately.

that would be me. And there is always a little current to the outlet when water flows out of the tank. And the time, the body has negative buoyancy depends on a lot of factors, for example, what she ate the hours before death, whether she suffered from frequent flatulence, her body volume per se. Water temperature is only one factor and we can assume, due to the season, that water was freaking cold.
Another little bit of trivia, water with halogenes in it (for example chlorine and fluoride, the Group 17 elements), produces a little higher buoyancy for bodies swimming in it and also, due to their sometimes a little "etchy" qualities tend to induce decomposition like effects. I know, in the US, a lot of drinking water is "enriched" with chlorine/fluorides. Anyone knows for LA?

 

[LaborDayRN]

that would be me. And there is always a little current to the outlet when water flows out of the tank. And the time, the body has negative buoyancy depends on a lot of factors, for example, what she ate the hours before death, whether she suffered from frequent flatulence, her body volume per se. Water temperature is only one factor and we can assume, due to the season, that water was freaking cold.
Another little bit of trivia, water with halogenes in it (for example chlorine and fluoride, the Group 17 elements), produces a little higher buoyancy for bodies swimming in it and also, due to their sometimes a little "etchy" qualities tend to induce decomposition like effects. I know, in the US, a lot of drinking water is "enriched" with chlorine/fluorides. Anyone knows for LA?

Yes, the water has fluoride and is chlorinated.

 

[Qrious]

The Row of Lift Buttons She Pressed
14 10 7 4
What Are Their Significance?

Hi all. I've been pondering the above and it came to my mind to just google those numbers.
And OMG this is what I found:

John 4 - Christ Witnesses to the Woman at the Well

A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” (John 4:7 NKJV)

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” (John 4:10 NKJV)

but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” (John 4:14 NKJV)


I'm shaking with this discovery. For more details please read my post #534 above.

 

[GlobalGirlyGirl]

I'm trying to figure out when she initially got in the tank. If she had been there for 7 days, wouldn't the water be so gross that people would complain earlier? I don't know. I'm thinking that she was killed somewhere else and taken up there after the police dogs searched for her. An employee or resident could see what was going on with the case (considering the activity and media coverage) and picked the time after the initial search with the dogs to put her in there.

 

[smash the stack]

I'm trying to figure out when she initially got in the tank. If she had been there for 7 days, wouldn't the water be so gross that people would complain earlier? I don't know. I'm thinking that she was killed somewhere else and taken up there after the police dogs searched for her. An employee or resident could see what was going on with the case (considering the activity and media coverage) and picked the time after the initial search with the dogs to put her in there.

This is a good possibility and one I have pondered as well.. keep in mind though that the temperature was reported to be fairly cold there during the time (for California, anyway) and someone had estimated it would have been cold enough to keep her body at the bottom of the tank for some time. I believe this was in the #2 thread?

Anyone have the info on this handy or know if the OP of the info is around?

 

[Qrious]

It's an interesting theory but I think it's far-feched. A strange coincidence in my opinion. Not to mention she starts with 14 instead of 4.

I think the possible reasons she's pushing those buttons are (from most likely to least likely):

1. She's sleepwalking/on drugs/hallucinating/etc.
2. She's blind without her glasses and can't see the numbers, but she remembers her floor number is in the middle row.
3. She's playing a game of tag/hide-and-seek.
4. She's holding the elevator to prevent someone from using it.
5. She's just wandering around the hotel with no real goal.
6. It's some sort of code.

Yes, it may be far-fetched but she was likely under some drug-induced hallucinations. And people under such circumstances can play and act out what was on their mind. Perhaps the verses of John 4 came to her mind when she saw the elevator panel numbers on her 4 days of stay there. The top down sequence she pressed is only natural. To me the numbers are the significance, not the sequence.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Yes, the water has fluoride and is chlorinated.

Thanks ... and of course, we have a victim so small and light weight, that she is exactly in the range I can't make any useful calculations about her buoyancy. And since she was probably naked (3 reports, she was, no report, she wasn't, but serious doubts, she was naked by posters here), no additional drag from clothing (which is more often than not the real reason why drowning victims sink, because the human body per se has an almost neutral buoyancy till the junk food strikes (seems, Elisa hadn't reached that point).
Given, that the outlet of the tank is on the bottom, the theory, the plug up on Feb 1st was caused by the body still stands IMO

 

[Nepen]

I'm trying to figure out when she initially got in the tank. If she had been there for 7 days, wouldn't the water be so gross that people would complain earlier? [...]

I'm not familiar with the system being used at the Cecil, but generally the water is constantly being drained by hotel guests and replenished. That would dilute the decomposition products quite a bit plus it's a large tank in itself. If you add to that that the piping has been repeatedly rated negatively...

[...]keep in mind though that the temperature was reported to be fairly cold there during the time (for California, anyway) and someone had estimated it would have been cold enough to keep her body at the bottom of the tank for some time. I believe this was in the #2 thread?

Anyone have the info on this handy or know if the OP of the info is around?

Most news articles I read definitely stated that the body was found at the bottom of the tank. If the water is more or less constantly running (see above) and the supplied water is cold, it could stay cool even if the day is warm. Water has a very high heat capacity hence it takes a lot of energy to heat it up considerably, heat exchange is even worse if you have a large volume with low surface area like the water tanks at hand.

I appended a graph of the temperatures of the last 3 weeks.

 

[LASC]

If she went to the roof and entered the water tank of her own free will, then it seems like her fingerprints should be all over the place, regardless of whether she used the fire escape or the stairs.

She would need to climb metal or aluminum ladders to get onto the tank, leaving prints all over those ladders. Her palm prints would be on the top of the tank imprinted by her body weight as she lowered herself into the tank.

It did rain in Los Angeles between the time she went missing and the time they found her, but I found this article written by a Crime Scene Investigator http://www.helium.com/items/212484-crime-scene-investigations-latent-fingerprint-processing-from-crime-scenes, which says,

Once you are ready to collect fingerprints, be sure to examine the surface of the object visually for patent prints that should be photographed in detail prior to processing. If there is any moisture on the surface, wait until it is dry before processing. Rain or dew will eliminate the ability to apply powder since the powder adheres to moisture. However, moisture will not damage the latent print, so waiting for the surface to dry will not reduce your ability to recover the print.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Plus, how long does it take for a corpse to smell really bad?

According to this video made by Caitlin, who is a mortician, it would probably start to smell within a couple of days without preservation and/or refrigeration.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKecQavdFgE"]Ask a Mortician, Episode Six - YouTube[/ame]
(discussion of how long it takes starts at 3:12)

I would guess the time taken would also depend on whether or not her body was in the tank the whole time?

 

[anansie]

Yes, it may be far-fetched but she was likely under some drug-induced hallucinations. And people under such circumstances can play and act out what was on their mind. Perhaps the verses of John 4 came to her mind when she saw the elevator panel numbers on her 4 days of stay there. The top down sequence she pressed is only natural. To me the numbers are the significance, not the sequence.

We cannot assume she is Christian or has read those verses in the Bible (or has even attempted to read the Bible). Your theory would depend on whether she was Christian or at least, was aware of or read those bible verses you mentioned.

 

[anansie]

Thanks ... and of course, we have a victim so small and light weight, that she is exactly in the range I can't make any useful calculations about her buoyancy. And since she was probably naked (3 reports, she was, no report, she wasn't, but serious doubts, she was naked by posters here), no additional drag from clothing (which is more often than not the real reason why drowning victims sink, because the human body per se has an almost neutral buoyancy till the junk food strikes (seems, Elisa hadn't reached that point).
Given, that the outlet of the tank is on the bottom, the theory, the plug up on Feb 1st was caused by the body still stands IMO

Except does anyone know for certain if the pipe was at the top or the bottom portion of the tank? I've seen some posters here mention the pipes are at the top. I too originally thought the pipe opening was at the bottom portion but not sure anymore.