CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[Theforeigner]

I still belive she was scared of somone, however I have come up with an alternative IMO plausible explanation that could explain al her strange movements/behaviour:

"The avoid/activate the "elevator door light beam sensor" theorie"

She start out wanting to go up or down with the elevator, but it woun´t work so;
She start trying to avoid the "elevator door light beam sensor" to make the elevator door close, later she tries to activate the "elevator door light beam sensor", also in order to try make the elvator work, at the end she give up and walk away, probably to use the staircase.

 

[Turk February]

Here is something we can potentially confirm now:

There are five or four lights lit initially, and then four or three after it reaches one floor after closing for the first time.

I put green dots to show where the buttons are. She hit seven buttons, and there are seven buttons from top to bottom. On the left is how it is before it goes down: five or four buttons lit (14, 10, 7, 4, M, or 10, 7, 4, M). B does not light up, because it probably takes a key to go there (lower right "button" has a hole in it, probably for the key).

On the right is what is left after going down one floor: four or three buttons lit (10, 7, 4, M or 7, 4, M).
http://i.imgur.com/SHLYKwn.jpg

You can see the different lamp between the floor she uses and the first one it stops on, the lamps are different:
http://i.imgur.com/8N2LAlY.jpg

We know what the lamps on floor 15 look like:
http://i.imgur.com/HjEFuNP.jpg

Proof the above is floor 15:
http://i.imgur.com/H0tds09.jpg

We also know what the lamps on floor 10 look like:
http://pic.uschinapress.com/u/cms/www/201302/20130226091337651004.jpg
But if she was on floor 15, it would have gone to floor 14 first, then to 10, but it doesn't make sense because 10 is brown, not orange, yet the second floor it goes down to is orange.

Which means she was on 14 (which has same wall color and seemingly same lamps as 15), it went down to 10 (matches the wall color and lamps of the photo above), then 7 (orange-ish).

Don't forget, the CCTV video footage desaturated colors from a farther range due to lighting.


For example when Elisa is standing in the hallway, her red sweater is so faint in color that you can barely tell it is red or perhaps brown.


But when she steps in the elevator, you can clearly tell it is a red sweater since the lighting in the elevator makes her red sweater color very vivid and easy to tell.


This would apply to the various red, orange and brown wallpaper colors on each of those corresponding floors. Since they are on the same hue, they would most likely look extremely similar, but if the lightning conditions were right -- you could tell which color they were.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

 

[fred&edna]

Margins are blown, again

 

[ThinkHard]

Question....so we heard she was last seen wearing black basketball shorts, and a purple tshirt, by hotel staff right? Do we know what time this was? Do we know how many staff members can confirm this? Is it just one, more then one? Where did they claim to see her? Did anyone else, like guests claim to see her in this outfit? Where these statements made before or after the video footage was released?

I ask because I was watching the video again, and I think she might have on a light purple tshirt under that zip up red hoodie. And it appears she IS wearing black basketball shorts.

So I suppose its possible she was seen earlier in the evening without the red hoodie. But with the tshirt and shorts, perhaps this is what she typically wore to bed (I've known girls who wear basketball shorts as pj bottoms), but got up at some point and threw on a red sweatshirt and ended up in the halls in that look.

But I was just thinking maybe its possible the hotel staff member who said they saw her in the purple tshirt and back shorts, is the killer, and he had spent time with her, time in which she wasnt wearing the sweatshirt, and perhaps forgot about this red sweatshirt, and only remembered the purple shirt and black shorts. Could this witness be the last person who saw her in this outfit and the last person who saw her alive, be the last person who saw her alive because they are the ones responsible for her death?

Do we know anymore about these witness sittings?

 

[Turk February]

Question....so we heard she was last seen wearing black basketball shorts, and a purple tshirt, by hotel staff right? Do we know what time this was? Do we know how many staff members can confirm this? Is it just one, more then one? Where did they claim to see her? Did anyone else, like guests claim to see her in this outfit? Where these statements made before or after the video footage was released?

I ask because I was watching the video again, and I think she might have on a light purple tshirt under that zip up red hoodie. And it appears she IS wearing black basketball shorts.

So I suppose its possible she was seen earlier in the evening without the red hoodie. But with the tshirt and shorts, perhaps this is what she typically wore to bed (I've known girls who wear basketball shorts as pj bottoms), but got up at some point and threw on a red sweatshirt and ended up in the halls in that look.

But I was just thinking maybe its possible the hotel staff member who said they saw her in the purple tshirt and back shorts, is the killer, and he had spent time with her, time in which she wasnt wearing the sweatshirt, and perhaps forgot about this red sweatshirt, and only remembered the purple shirt and black shorts. Could this witness be the last person who saw her in this outfit and the last person who saw her alive, be the last person who saw her alive because they are the ones responsible for her death?

Do we know anymore about these witness sittings?

It was first reported that Elisa Lam was physically last seen on January 31st on the lobby by the Desk Clerk and hostess.

In later accounts, it was only 'a hotel worker'

 

[ThinkHard]

It was first reported that Elisa Lam was physically last seen on January 31st on the lobby by the Desk Clerk and hostess.

In later accounts, it was only 'a hotel worker'

Hmmm interesting. If I were LE I'd at least be taking a closer look at this hotel worker, and finding out a bit more details about this supposed last sighting.

 

[Borris]

I am having a hard time believing she is talking to herself. She's looking off to the right with her eyes fixed as if her speech were directed at someone in particular. If she wanted to talk to herself, there's a mirror to her left in which she can do so. Also, I don't think anyone uses such huge gestures/animated body language when they're just talking to themselves.

I don't think it's "talking" as much as acting out whatever is happening inside her mind. I think she could be in the midst of a manic cycle.

Having said that, I do quite like the idea that maybe she's wearing such loose clothing and flaps to take a shower in one of the nicer guest bathrooms instead of the smelly, grungy low-income showers. One would do that in the middle of the night when everyone is sleeping. But the night-shift security guard got fed up with the 1-4F residents sneaking into the guest bathrooms and decided to teach her a lesson.

 

[walklikeacat]

Who are actually living on 14th floor...or 15th? What numbers do these rooms have? Are all the rooms on 14th with a number that starts with "14.."?

It seems rather easy to check up on spokeo.com:
http://imageshack.us/a/img46/8983/skrmavbild20130227kl041.png

And yes, there are 3 registred sex offenders on this address:
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/8983/skrmavbild20130227kl041.png

 

[Figuring]

Wondering if anyone saw this reader comment at LA TIMES - SO names are mentioned and mods can clip, I just didn't want to alter the message:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-draw-attention-in-china-canada.html#comments


"Nate Bentley · Follow
<Modsnip>

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't think it's "talking" as much as acting out whatever is happening inside her mind. I think she could be in the midst of a manic cycle.

Having said that, I do quite like the idea that maybe she's wearing such loose clothing and flaps to take a shower in one of the nicer guest bathrooms instead of the smelly, grungy low-income showers. One would do that in the middle of the night when everyone is sleeping. But the night-shift security guard got fed up with the 1-4F residents sneaking into the guest bathrooms and decided to teach her a lesson.

IMHO the symptom of a manic episode elisa would have to be displaying to be having an actual conversation in her mind, would be more along the lines of a psychosis. And well this can happen, it is not one of the more common characteristics of a hippo manic episode. I think its more likely such a state of purpose yet reality detachment (especially given the time) could be attributed to a sleeping medication such as ambien. This medication can cause people to seem awake, and in some ways seem normal, because their actions are deliberate, but often these actions do not much the situation around them and can be exaggerated. Just my two cents.

 

[GuardianSG]

Hi all! I'm from Singapore, new to this forum and have been following this case for the past weeks. I'm keen to offer the following 10 points for discussion with everyone here. (I've posted the same on Chinese forums)

1) "Los Angeles police investigators searched the roof of the Cecil with the aid of dogs when Lam was reported missing about three weeks ago. Lopez said he didn't know if the tanks were examined."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-where-missing-canadian-woman-was-found-dead/

It's quite weird that LE searched the rooftop three weeks ago, with scent dogs, and missed the water tanks?
If you are searching the rooftop for a missing person and you noticed 4 huge water tanks in your presence, wouldn't your basic instinct tell you to take a look?

If at that point of time the body was already in the water tank and the LE missed it, it's a lapse on their side.
If at that point of time the body wasn't in the water tank, then it must have been hidden somewhere in the hotel before it was moved. (and this definitely indicate foul play)


2) Was the body found naked or clothed?
If it was found naked - where is her clothings up till this point in time?
And where are her sandals? Have these been located?

Gitana on thread 2, page 27th post #651 mentioned this:
"People in a psychotic state often take their clothes off though"

If this was what happened to her, her clothes and sandals should have been nearby and found by now. Why not?


3) In the elevator footage, is she at 14th or 15th floor?


4) This CCTV footage has been edited. Did the LE edit it? Or was it edited before the LE retrieved it? And what's the reason?
2:40 - 2:42 (Time jumped)
2:53 - 2:59 (Time stopped 3 times)


5) Looking at her attire that night and that she was moving around without her glasses, she definitely didn't plan to go anywhere out of the hotel.
What was she doing at the other levels of the hotel? How deep was her short-signtedness? Her vision seems quite bad since she had to move that near to press the elevator buttons.
One key question here is: WHY wasn't she wearing her glasses? I am myself a short sighted person and I can't get things done without it, unless I'm going for a shower or I want to wash my face or I'm going to sleep.
OR did someone took posession of her glasses and then placed it in her room later on.


6) Was there water in her lungs(wet drowning)? If there aren't(dry drowning), it's likely that she was dead before her body was placed into the water.
The LE mentioned there are no obvious COD, no sign of trauma on the body. If it's dry drowning and no sign of trauma on the body, this can only mean - Asphyxiation by soft objects (e.g: pillows/blankets/towels/plastics)
(considering not poisoned or overdosed - depending on the autopsy results 6-8weeks later)
(strangling ruled out because it would cause trauma)


7)An 89 yr old long term resident of the hotel mentioned a 'loud noise that knocked him off his bed' and 'partial flooding on the 4th floor', and 'the pipe between the 3rd and 4th floor seems to be obstructed'.
-How many occupants are there on the 14th and 15th floor on that night. If the noise was so loud, how come up till now only this man mentioned it? Anyone else heard the loud sound?
-Which floor was this old man staying on? How did he know abt the flooding and the obstructed drainage on the 4th floor? What's he doing there? Is there anyone who can verify his statement?


8)From the elevator video we can say she generally showed anxiety and nervousness more than straight fear and many suggested she probably met someone she acquainted or she believed can be trusted (e.g hotel staff/ security personnel), hence she lowered her guard.
I would like to make a bold statement here. Imagine, what if it was an old person she saw? I believe most of us would not see an old person as someone who would might harm us because we perceive them as fragile, especially if we are young adults. An old person who is a long term resident of the hotel. He/She would know the hotel inside out too.


9) I see a lot of people speculating how hard it is to bring the body to the rooftop and dump it in the water tank. To be honest, I don't think it's actually that hard at all. I'm pretty sure the body was lowered from the higher platform at the side of the tanks instead of climbing up the tanks directly. Look at those ladders, makes it much easier.

10) In chinese there's a saying: "&#20961;&#36208;&#36942;&#24517;&#30041;&#19979;&#30165;&#36321;". It means "Where one go one must leave traces".
LE should re-conduct a thorough re-examine of the entire 15th floor and the rooftop to find any traces of DNA or to trace anything that might be suspicious.
EL stayed in the hotel for 4 days. The elevator footage is the last seen of her, but i'm sure she was caught in more footages in various other CCTVs during her stay there.
They should pull out all CCTV footages during the 4 days of her stay to CHECK if she had any conversation with anyone, shared a lift with any suspicious person, been to another room on other levels with anyone else. (It was reported that EL met up with two of the staffs for meals twice?)
I'm not sure if the LE carried this out but i would, and i think it's vital and might show something new.

At this moment, until further autopsy results are out, I'm naming all 4th, 14th and 15th floor resident and all hotel staff(including security personnels and maintenance workers) as prime suspects.

 

[LI-LI]

5) Looking at her attire that night and that she was moving around without her glasses, she definitely didn't plan to go anywhere out of the hotel.
What was she doing at the other levels of the hotel? How deep was her short-signtedness? Her vision seems quite bad since she had to move that near to press the elevator buttons.
One key question here is: WHY wasn't she wearing her glasses? I am myself a short sighted person and I can't get things done without it, unless I'm going for a shower or I want to wash my face or I'm going to sleep.
OR did someone took posession of her glasses and then placed it in her room later on.

This is something I want to point out. The reason she had no glasses on was because she was asleep and then woke up for dream walking. You don't wear your glasses when you go to bed do you? I really don't think anyone would take off their glasses going to places that they have no experience with (especially during midnight).

Also she might had a habit of dream walking, LAPD might want to check out the tapes during the period of her stay to see if she was like that previously and probably to see whether she had been to 14th floor before or knew anyone there by just scanning through the tapes again.

 

[hello people]

What was found in her room? Was her phone found? Has everyone from the hotel been questioned? All permanent residents questioned and had their rooms searched? What time was it when she appeared in the video? Any drugs in her system? What the good god damn was she doing in the elevator? High? Stoned? Damn...intriguing...and seamy...very, very seamy.

 

[kenmore]

I've already been chastised by a grizzled local for going down this road, but I find the fact Elisa died while staying in what I consider one of the least safe areas in America worth looking into. Below I've linked just a few of hundreds of articles you can find discussing the common practice of surrounding counties, cities, and hospitals "dumping" patients on Skid Row.

http://blogdowntown.com/2012/02/6578-hospital-patient-dumped-in-la-ends-up-wandering

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2009552996_apushomelessdumping.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/nov/16/local/me-dumping16

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012...as-accused-of-patient-dumping/?print&page=all

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1385&Itemid=218 This link does not chronicle patient dumping so much as provide some hard numbers supporting my belief that untreated mentally ill are more likely to commit random acts of violence than those with prior arrest records.

This is not to point a finger at the mentally ill, but at the reason this problem exists: American resources for uninsured people struggling with mental illness are laughably non-existent. And there is no push for change, as mental illness remains a taboo subject in many quarters and politicians rarely push for its inclusion in health care reform.

Perhaps a case like this, if it can be proven that Elisa was indeed randomly murdered, will shed light on a problem no one really talks about. Perhaps it's wishful thinking to hope a Canadian's murder would lead to a sea change in American attitudes towards mental health, but one can dream her death was not in vain.

I don't think it's out of bounds at all to look into the many quirky residents of the Cecil Hotel and its surrounding area, given the random nature of Elisa's death and the random population surrounding her during her stay.

 

[ThinkHard]

Wondering if anyone saw this reader comment at LA TIMES - SO names are mentioned and mods can clip, I just didn't want to alter the message:


"Nate Bentley · Follow
<modsnip>

Just curious but how is it that a criminal sex offender, is allowed to have an adopted son? Yes I realize this son is now an adult. But he old is his criminal convictions. I didn't think registered sex offenders were allowed to be adoptive parents.

 

[jon999]

This is something I want to point out. The reason she had no glasses on was because she was asleep and then woke up for dream walking. You don't wear your glasses when you go to bed do you? I really don't think anyone would take off their glasses going to places that they have no experience with (especially during midnight).

Also she might had a habit of dream walking, LAPD might want to check out the tapes during the period of her stay to see if she was like that previously and probably to see whether she had been to 14th floor before or knew anyone there by just scanning through the tapes again.

We have no idea just how bad is her eyesight though.

I sometimes wear glasses and sometimes don't. My vision is optimal with glasses but I can still function without.

If she's just going to the bathroom/kitchen/lounge, it's possible she didn't bother putting them on.

 

[Borris]

IMHO the symptom of a manic episode elisa would have to be displaying to be having an actual conversation in her mind, would be more along the lines of a psychosis. And well this can happen, it is not one of the more common characteristics of a hippo manic episode. I think its more likely such a state of purpose yet reality detachment (especially given the time) could be attributed to a sleeping medication such as ambien. This medication can cause people to seem awake, and in some ways seem normal, because their actions are deliberate, but often these actions do not much the situation around them and can be exaggerated. Just my two cents.

I've read your previous posts on this and can only agree that her behavior does not necessarily mean she's talking to anyone but acting out some type of drama going on in her own mind.

 

[OCSlacker]

This is something I want to point out. The reason she had no glasses on was because she was asleep and then woke up for dream walking. You don't wear your glasses when you go to bed do you? I really don't think anyone would take off their glasses going to places that they have no experience with (especially during midnight).

Also she might had a habit of dream walking, LAPD might want to check out the tapes during the period of her stay to see if she was like that previously and probably to see whether she had been to 14th floor or knew anyone there by just scanning through the tapes again.

I don't believe she was sleepwalking. I sleep walk often and not once have I stopped to put on my shoes and a hoodie. Couldn't really tell but I thought they were sandals not flip flops that look like they have a buckle. If they are sandals than it would make it even more difficult for me to try and put those on while sleepwalking

 

[broccoli]

Has LE said anything about her glasses? Only one released photo of her shows her in glasses and, honestly, it looks like an old picture.

 

[carole]

Just curious but how is it that a criminal sex offender, is allowed to have an adopted son? Yes I realize this son is now an adult. But he old is his criminal convictions. I didn't think registered sex offenders were allowed to be adoptive parents.

He might have been adopted before AT's conviction. Or he could be a younger man that AT calls his adopted son but is really a good friend, someone the older person mentors.