CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[Fei]

Interestingly........how did THIS person get up there with his mobile/handphone to take videos of the tank?

No more alarms, secure locks, etc?

They used one of the fire escapes to get onto the rooftop, didn't try the "locked " door which might set off the alarm.

 

[Doruk]

If all four of EL's limbs were broken as Chinese reports say, and the lid of water tank were shut and latched back in, then it's definitely foul play. The tank is only 10 feet high. No way she could have fallen into tank and broken ALL her limbs even if tank was empty. NO way she would have closed the lid after she fell in. No rungs inside for her to climb up to reach lid and no way for her to latch the lid from outside.

 

[Ravenz]

They used one of the fire escapes to get onto the rooftop, didn't try the "locked " door which might set off the alarm.

My point exactly
that's what I was trying to imply with my post

 

[Ravenz]

If all four of EL's limbs were broken as Chinese reports say, and the lid of water tank were shut and latched back in, then it's definitely foul play. The tank is only 10 feet high. No way she could have fallen into tank and broken ALL her limbs even if tank was empty. NO way she would have closed the lid after she fell in. No rungs inside for her to climb up to reach lid and no way for her to latch the lid from outside.

oops, I missed that report.......where does it state that all her limbs were broken?

 

[Sillybilly]

But if he could kill so easily surely he'd have had other hotel victims, even if they didn't end up in the water tank?

Other people must have annoyed him before why didn't they all end up dead.?

But were they polite, petite, female, alone, possibly disoriented, from out of country .. IOW vulnerable? And depending on where perp resides within the hotel, maybe they didn't get a lot of young ladies who were lost in the hotel, knocking on their door.

So we're not talking a serial offender here, or there would be more similar incidents. Possibly just a one-off, dude could have done something even he didn't expect would result in her death.

 

[Doruk]

oops, I missed that report.......where does it state that all her limbs were broken?

Chinese media reports. It's in threads somewhere.

 

[OCSlacker]

I agree. I think the tank was the dump site. She was killed in a room, and I would guess somewhere very close to the top of the building. Maybe one of the rooms closest to hers.

I don't buy any of the suggestions that she was wandering around numerous floors on purpose. I was there for 4 days and I spent almost no time in the hotel. Why would I when I am there to see the sites? If she was taking transit (like I was), it takes forever to get to the tourist spots from downtown. Even if I wanted to wander, every floor is the same as the ones above and below. And most of the time you are aware how creepy it is. Why spend anymore time there than necessary.

I really wonder if it's 1:30 in the morning. My guess is that she might have been going down to use a computer or the vending machine. I wouldn't have risked going out of my room at that hour if that was the only purpose. But then I am a lot older than 21.

Really people the place feels as close to the Shining as you can get. You rarely see people in the halls. The numerous security locks on your door give you the impression that you shouldn't feel too safe.

Read the reviews and I can only imagine how creepy . I do believe she was killed in a room on the upper floors,either hers,someone on the upper floors or dragged into an empty room.. Having seen the locks on the door I would be concerned roaming around too but at 21 who knows! You just think you are invincible when you are younger. Since I became aware of what happened to her I've thought of all the situations I've put myself in over the years.. damn, I feel lucky that nothing has ever happened. Think about when you were younger, didn't you just do things that make you shake your head when you look back. I feel this way especially because I am a very petite woman and it really wouldn't be that difficult for someone to grab me or find a way to harm me, yet I still put myself in situations up until recently were if I was in the wrong place at the wrong time anything could happen.. you just never think it can happen to you

 

[Sillybilly]

I believe there were MSM articles that said the door to roof was secured with lock and alarm. But the tanks only had latches. No locks.

That's correct ..

"The water tank above has a separate latch, or hatch, on top of it that is not secured by any lock. Anybody could open it, but the roof is secured with an alarm and a lock and a key to the door access," said LAPD Sgt. Rudy Lopez.

from:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8998881

 

[gitana1]

Hi all! I'm from Singapore, new to this forum and have been following this case for the past weeks. I'm keen to offer the following 10 points for discussion with everyone here. (I've posted the same on Chinese forums)


2) Was the body found naked or clothed?
If it was found naked - where is her clothings up till this point in time?
And where are her sandals? Have these been located?

Gitana on thread 2, page 27th post #651 mentioned this:
"People in a psychotic state often take their clothes off though"

If this was what happened to her, her clothes and sandals should have been nearby and found by now. Why not?


7)An 89 yr old long term resident of the hotel mentioned a 'loud noise that knocked him off his bed' and 'partial flooding on the 4th floor', and 'the pipe between the 3rd and 4th floor seems to be obstructed'.
-How many occupants are there on the 14th and 15th floor on that night. If the noise was so loud, how come up till now only this man mentioned it? Anyone else heard the loud sound?
-Which floor was this old man staying on? How did he know abt the flooding and the obstructed drainage on the 4th floor? What's he doing there? Is there anyone who can verify his statement?

10) In chinese there's a saying: "凡走過必留下痕跡". It means "Where one go one must leave traces".
LE should re-conduct a thorough re-examine of the entire 15th floor and the rooftop to find any traces of DNA or to trace anything that might be suspicious.
EL stayed in the hotel for 4 days. The elevator footage is the last seen of her, but i'm sure she was caught in more footages in various other CCTVs during her stay there.
They should pull out all CCTV footages during the 4 days of her stay to CHECK if she had any conversation with anyone, shared a lift with any suspicious person, been to another room on other levels with anyone else. (It was reported that EL met up with two of the staffs for meals twice?)
I'm not sure if the LE carried this out but i would, and i think it's vital and might show something new.

Snipped for space by me.

:fireworks: WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As to the clothes, we have no idea if LE found her clothes or not. Generally, in these investigations, they do not release much evidence while still investigating.

As to the man discussing the noise, we don;t know that he just mentioned this disturbance. We have no idea what he told police or when, if anything.

As to the CCTV footage, no doubt LE HAS pulled every tape and reviewed all the footage. But they are not going to discuss that with us!!!!!

Have you considered the hotel security could be behind her missing?

Maybe a rogue security guard?

Friends of mine have worked for many years at Cincinnati,OH major hotels as 3rd shift security

They have keys, access to all the rooms, guest, conference, etc

They can turn off/on the security cams

And with a uniform can blend in very well, people don't suspect security going into rooms or walking the entire hotel facility, even the roof, so they know the hotels inside and out

And security also is accountible for knowing all employee work schedules, maintenance, delivery schedules as well, so possibly this perp knew no one would be checking the water tank for a very long time

Just some food for thought

Good food for thought and very scary.

Former guests sue LA hotel where body was found


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...here-body-was-found-4311247.php#ixzz2M4jWHLjT

This reminds me. I listened to KFI this week and two British tourists who ended up staying there during the death and drinking the water, were on the radio. There was an absolute outpouring of sympathy for them. They got free hotel stays at nice hotels, a free Disneyland trip, free limos, and they got taken out to dinner by an actor (I can't remember his name).

They had been treated fairly shabbily by the hotel, IIRC and no one wanted them to think this is what America is like.

Yeah. Maybe she saw her fairy godmother, who told her to press those buttons, so she can get a wish. And after she pressed those buttons, she wished to become famous.

Or maybe she saw the devil on her shoulder and it told her to press those buttons, and the angel on the other shoulder told her not to. The devil told her to take the stairs, and the angel told her to stay inside the elevator. In the end, she listened to the devil.

I admit these are highly speculative, but we need to keep an open mind.

This is kind of a sarcastic and snotty response. That's not what we are like on websleuths.

BTW, I enjoyed the post you are criticizing.

 

[ThinkHard]

She disappeared in the evening between January 31st and Feb 1st.

She was still alive well and accounted for at 2am on January 31st.

Edited to add:

Your link takes you to the January 30th. If you want to know the overnight temps btw jan 31st and feb 1st, you need to be in the date as feb 1st, and it starts at 00 hrs.

At midnight it was 53, it didn't get into the 60's until 9am on feb 1st.

But considering I doubt she went into said tank alive, its kind of a mute point.

Sorry forgot to add the link

http://www.friendlyforecast.com/usa...eles-California&date=20130201000000&sort=hour

@doruk , you were looking at the wrong day, here's the links for temps on the night elisa disappeared...(early morning hours of 2/1)

 

[OCSlacker]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you're not sweet.

I believe EL was raised to be submissive. She submitted completely to this man, thinking that as long as she co-operated, that he'd have no logical reason to kill her. What she didn't count on, was there was nothing logical about this person at all.

No offense taken, the user name usually makes people think I'm a guy.. but having read her tumblr page and her blog she seemed to be very intelligent and independent, not submissive to me. What makes you feel she was submissive?

 

[ErnestBorgnine]

Read the reviews and I can only imagine how creepy . I do believe she was killed in a room on the upper floors,either hers,someone on the upper floors or dragged into an empty room.. Having seen the locks on the door I would be concerned roaming around too but at 21 who knows! You just think you are invincible when you are younger. Since I became aware of what happened to her I've thought of all the situations I've put myself in over the years.. damn, I feel lucky that nothing has ever happened. Think about when you were younger, didn't you just do things that make you shake your head when you look back. I feel this way especially because I am a very petite woman and it really wouldn't be that difficult for someone to grab me or find a way to harm me, yet I still put myself in situations up until recently were if I was in the wrong place at the wrong time anything could happen.. you just never think it can happen to you

At that age, yes I put myself in a few very bad situations. Most of them travel related. It's easy to find trouble when you are looking at the world with rose coloured glasses and don't expect it.

 

[FutzBucket]

No offense taken, the user name usually makes people think I'm a guy.. but having read her tumblr page and her blog she seemed to be very intelligent and independent, not submissive to me. What makes you feel she was submissive?

Because of her Chinese background, I believe she was raised to be a quiet and submissive girl.

Also, it's very possible that she did scream. I've read comments of people who stayed there saying that the place was filled with crazy people that were screaming at all hours of the day and night.

And, if I'm right about her eyesight being impaired that night, she really couldn't see where he leading her.

 

[Sillybilly]

They used one of the fire escapes to get onto the rooftop, didn't try the "locked " door which might set off the alarm.

I wonder if hotel staff and security go up there to have their smoke breaks .. maybe that door is always propped open to accommodate that.

 

[ThinkHard]

But were they polite, petite, female, alone, possibly disoriented, from out of country .. IOW vulnerable? And depending on where perp resides within the hotel, maybe they didn't get a lot of young ladies who were lost in the hotel, knocking on their door.

So we're not talking a serial offender here, or there would be more similar incidents. Possibly just a one-off, dude could have done something even he didn't expect would result in her death.

It's not that I don't believe she was the victim of a crazy resident or even staff of the hotel, that I do believe.

But there are criminal sex offenders. And what I don't believe is well for one that some one was mugging her and had her at gun point by the elevator. I see no evidence of that at all.

But furthermore if said crazy wanted to harm her, I would think he would want more with her then to just walk her up the stairs and put her in a tank.

I would think he would target her as a victim, have his way with her, and then kill her, and dispose the body.

The idea that he would mug her, walk her up,stairs and leave her in a tank to die, just doesn't fit. It doesn't make sense, and not just viewing him from a sane persons perspective, but it doesn't make sense for a crazy criminal. Someone that disturbed would want more from their victim.

 

[LI-LI]

If all four of EL's limbs were broken as Chinese reports say, and the lid of water tank were shut and latched back in, then it's definitely foul play. The tank is only 10 feet high. No way she could have fallen into tank and broken ALL her limbs even if tank was empty. NO way she would have closed the lid after she fell in. No rungs inside for her to climb up to reach lid and no way for her to latch the lid from outside.

Could that be done by the killer for the ease of transport the body to the roof? Like she could easily twist around?

 

[samevo8]

From reading the Tumblr posts (I'm assuming most people believe this is EL's Tumblr), it appears that EL may have had some form of bipolar disorder. Most of the posts I read in Dec/Jan seem down in nature. Some of the drivers could be a breakup mid Dec, a non-relationship in mid Jan, work stress in late Dec. There were periods of happiness, however. This would be in line with her bouncy/happy nature at the Toronto hostel.

Dec 9: "It’s my last hours at this amazing hostel and I will miss the staff very much and the beautiful lounge. I am very happy to have met all the German, Australian, English, Irish, Korean, 1 Swede, 1 Austrian, 1 Iranian and all the other nationalities that drifted through here. " (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37563486528/its-my-last-hours-at-this-amazing-hostel-and-i)

Dec 10: "GOOD GOD I HAVE BEEN UNBELIEVABLY FORTUNATE" ... "Anyways I am happy I got to take this trip" <- to Toronto/Ontario (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37604546455/the-end-is-near-more-so-its-my-final-48)

Dec 11: "Toronto you have enchanted me and I have made so many wonderful discoveries and met some amazing people. I could not ask for more from any city or any place." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37689971552/toronto-you-have-enchanted-me-and-i-have-made-so)

However, I find many more depressing postings. For example, check out:
Jan 9 (in Montreal, quite a nice posting actually): http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40088596226/more-im-privatizing-the-living-crap-out-of

Dec 30: "is feeling really alone and lonely

Not an uncommon feeling but I’m not taking it very well

perhaps the breakup is finally manifesting itself and it’s settled into reality that I am alone once again" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39160279976/more-i-have-a-jumble-of-emotions-and-its)

Jan 4: "Sometimes it hurts a lot and it overwhelms me

There is no explanation, no cause to point and blame.

It just takes over and you’re helpless." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39648081968/sometimes-it-hurts-a-lot-and-it-overwhelms-me)

Interestingly, there are a few posts that infer problems sleeping:
Dec 21: "Anyways, I haven’t been idle and doing nothing on the internet and not sleeping when I should be sleeping and sleeping when I should be in bed." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/38458710384/insomniasss-more-i-figured-out-where-i)

Jan 3: "Since 2013 I have accomplished one thing:

Dec 30: "sleep is absolutely crap; only 5-6 hours at most and then I wake up and catch maybe another 2-3 so interrupted at best" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39160279976/more-i-have-a-jumble-of-emotions-and-its)

sleep for 40 hours" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39530134336/since-2013-i-have-accomplished-one-thing-sleep)

Interestingly, when I read about EL's loud/strange behavior prior to her disappearance (was it at a book store or record store? she seemed to be into books, buying a bunch from her trip to eastern Canada), I think of the following posts which make me think that's how she sometimes was:
"My main faults are that I talk too much, I have a naturally loud voice and I have no filter.

Outspoken, rude, blunt, arrogant, judgmental etc etc you know all the bad stuff a jerk is

I’m fine if I don’t open my mouth but as soon as I do and start talking, I can get in trouble because people hear what I say out of context and immediately get offended " (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40665271673/more-my-main-faults-are-that-i-talk-too-much)

Jan 9: "I really need to be removed from society before my big mouth gets me in trouble and I get beaten up." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40067473296/more-i-really-need-to-be-removed-from-society)

Again, using this piece of info - it suggest Elisa as being outgoing, friendly and quite playful. To me, her actions does not suggest somebody drugged up. This would be contradicted by how lax and normal she was when she first entered the elevator just as the analyzer just mentioned.

 

[ErnestBorgnine]

I remember something else. The rooms are tiny. You are no more than 12 feet from the door. Also, there is no carpeting in the halls to mask the sound of footsteps. It was easy to hear people coming and going when I stayed there. Is it possible that her killer was in a room on her path back to her room.

I can't recall if there was a peephole. Probably. That would make stalking her easier.

 

[ThinkHard]

Could that be done by the killer for the ease of transport the body to the roof? Like she could easily twist around?

When I heard that her limbs were broken I thought the exact same thing. But I wanted to wait until we knew if her limbs were truly broken before posting it.

 

[OCSlacker]

Because of her Chinese background, I believe she was raised to be a quiet and submissive girl.

Also, it's very possible that she did scream. I've read comments of people who stayed there saying that the place was filled with crazy people that were screaming at all hours of the day and night.

And, if I'm right about her eyesight being impaired that night, she really couldn't see where he leading her.

I can understand why you would think that being Asian she would be raised to be submissive but she was raised in Canada and although we don't know her personally, having read her writings I would gather that she would be more independent, perhaps a bit submissive to her parents, but most people are with their parents. Who knows though! Yes, I have read the reviews that the place is like a funny farm on steroids. People screaming all times of the day and night but as for eyesight, I don't think she was so blind as to not be able to figure out the general direction she was being led. I just don't see this girl "rolling over" and going down without a fight unless she was taken by surprise and completely unable to fight her attacker