CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

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Respectfully snipped...

It looks like Fekto is a person then, because one of the comments was "I know Fekto." I wonder if LE has thought of this, or if it's wise to bring it to their attention?

Though, I'm starting to lean towards what other people have said...The graffiti has nothing to do with the case. I'm sure this Fekto guy just wanted to go to the famous Cecil Hotel and do some tagging on the roof.

Just like to give my 2 cents' worth on this graffiti thing. I'm not someone with any interest in graffiti but I learned from a case of graffiti vandalism on a train in Singapore that graffiti artists often copy each other's works. So people into graffiti are likely to have gone on internet, seen other artists' works, and then reproduce the same work or a variant elsewhere. That is why the internet searches found the same graffiti words as those found on the rooftop.

So I think it's safe to say the graffiti found has nothing to do with Elisa.
 
You keep referring to "the suspect." But there is no suspect. People just as often discuss facts on this forum. You are not differentiating. That's the difference.

no, its a suspect, a male with a <modsnip>, seething with hatred for Elisa, planning oppressive sexist evil
 
40631.jpg
 
I'm speaking from my own experience with "Hold Door" buttons living in big apartment complexes over the years. They would work for me only as long as I kept the button pressed. Then when I'd let off, the door would close.

some chinese "investigators" went in and took videos and tested out the elevator Door Hold button and once you press it, it will give you approx 2 min before it will close again.

see video:

[ame="http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/QrOGM84VgHc/"]test 1_ÔÚÏßÊÓƵ¹Û¿´_ÍÁ¶¹ÍøÊÓƵ test[/ame]
 
Not going to bother quoting all the things I've read in the past few days. Just some thoughts about where everything is going in terms of brain storming.

(1) Taking out contacts while at an unknown place. Highly unlikely. Someone had mentioned that she would have done so due to smoke. Would a rational person do this in an unknown area? Highly unlikely. Individuals are hyper sensitive to sensation depletion, which of priority is eye sight. Sure this could happen, but then she won't be rational/sane/etc.

(2) Individuals with weapons. I think I in particular have discussed this quite well, and have brought on two very qualified individuals' opinions on this matter. Due to SME, these opinions should be respected, and built upon, not widely speculated on. Weapons, in particularly related to control/compliance does not correlate to the theories I have read on this thread as of late. I recommend reading the two posts from the LE and SOC friends/colleagues that I have put up earlier.

(3) Organization of killer(s). Just a thought. If I was staying in this hotel, or working in it, why would I kill someone and dump the body on the premise I live in or work at? Basic logic concludes that everyone in that building is going to be suspect and looked over. Especially if that person checks out or doesn't show up to work. This theory also suggests the murder was committed on premise, because why would someone carry a body through the lobby and up (where there are cameras). Even the assistance of a bag is going to wear and tear you down (and obviously a bag would be used).

Anyways, just a few thoughts/opinions. I can't state this as LE fact, but rather from experience and from working with some great friends who are in the field. I'll go back to my seat in the back now.
 
Here's the timeline as I see it, some may disagree


Assuming LAPD's purported Time Of Death is Feb 14-16

And all contact from her stops on Jan 31, he parents said she had daily contact on the phone, then all contact stops on Jan 31

No one else hears from or sees Elisa after Jan 31

We have the mystery elevator video on Jan 31 where she might've met her killer and the last person to see her alive. In the video we see her for several minutes either play acting out some prescription or illegal drug induced mannerisms or she's explaining problems to someone, either a resident, tourist or hotel employee. It also looks like she's counting on her hand something bothering her and it appears slightly someone might've pulled her hair as a threat or sexual advance

Weeks later in Feb, she's found totally naked in the tank and it was posted here purportedly LAFD/LAPD believe her clothes may have been dangling inside the drainage valve and they had to be pulled out

Note: It has'nt been verified if there were actually clothes in the tank or if they belonged to Elisa

Weird pig latin type graffiti's on/around the water tank where she was found and some posters deciphered the cryptic drawings as a sex reference of a woman

LAPD/LAFD believe Elisa entered the roof to get in the tanks by the fire escape ladders or the exit door that had an alarm, but it has'nt been verified if the alarm was working. The Chinese group of sleuthers completed a walk thru of the roof and found the exit door alarm not working. They also saw no hallway video cams at the Cecil hotel. We also don't know if the Chinese group interviewed anyone at the Cecil per Elisa's death

Where is this case now? A medical examiner's toxicology report's due very soon and the coroner has no cause of death, but apparently does have some things -- evidence - that they're looking into from the autopsy

Let me know if I missed anything, thanks


1. It's rumored that the water quality was checked on the 14th - we need to check if LAPD's time of death is because of that testing date, premature to the autopsy report - and then if it is, it may imply that they are around the water tanks when it is checked.

2. The video demonstrates odd, manic behavior. There are questions whether it could also be responsible for her own demise.

2a. She could be cracking her knuckles in anxiety rather than counting, evidence of being "off" her medication.*

2b. Hands to hair - tingling. "od" of Dexedrine? Reportedly easy to abuse, or trying to remember something.*

3. Graffiti is evidence that the roof is accessible to the public.

4. I don't believe the Chinese ever opened the door with the alarm. They were afraid to notify authorities. They opened the door to the balcony which did not have an alarm. Is this correct?

5. Toxicology will be looking for a presence of her medications as well as the street drugs. Since there is a gap between the last day she was seen and your listed time of death, it means a that they could rule her death as accidental/suicide due to a lack of prescribed substances in her body.

5a. Kidnapped
5b. Stayed in her bed in a severe depressive state, until suicide.*

6. Pathology reports are due, from what I have gathered. There may be areas that demonstrate cause of death that could not be seen in the gross assessment, but require sophisticated microscopy to ferret out.

----

*Add to the wild theories that one of the "resident druggies" may have stolen the prescriptions from her room, or during her check-in having heard the chut-chut of pills rocking as she walked, then lifted them from her suitcase while she was in the elevator. She may be trying to jog her memory by retracing her earlier steps in the video, which is why she is acting so strange.
 
are we allowed to post the translation and video and pictures from several chinese 'investigators', they gave a good insight to the hotel and great information. the thread said media info, so i wasn't sure.

Oh, I see. Not sure.
 
just re-reading posts from those chinese investigators, and he said that there's a camera located at the back of the hotel, back door area.
http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-98.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]


and regarding the fire exit door, this is the exact wording the chinese investigators said:
&#12288;&#21518;&#35805;&#65306;&#22312;&#35843;&#26597;&#32467;&#26463;&#20043;&#21518;&#65292;&#25105;&#21644;Brandon&#26469;&#27492;&#23581;&#35797;&#24182;&#25512;&#20102;&#27425;&#38376;&#65292;&#27492;&#38376;&#26159;&#38145;&#30528;&#30340;&#65292;&#24182;&#19988;&#27809;&#26377;&#24341;&#21457;&#35686;&#25253;&#12290;
(at the end of the investigation, both me and brandon went and tried to open the door, the door was locked and no alarm sounded)

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-100.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]
 
My translation of a Chinese news article on Yahoo! News China published today (thanks to four_seasons again for directing me to this) :

http://news.cn.yahoo.com/ypen/20130302/1633648.html

Legendary inspector Dr. Henry Lee speaks about Elisa Lam's case : "This may not be a suicide".

There has been widespread international publicity on Elisa Lam's mysterious case. On 25th February 2013, our reporters from NanDu Daily got in touch with the legendary inspector Dr. Henry Lee. Nicknamed "The Chinese Sherlock Holmes", Dr. Lee has over 50 years of experience in law enforcement. He has worked on over 8000 cases. Some of the cases he was involved in include the reinvestigation of John F. Kennedy's assassination, the Monica Lewinsky scandal, the JonBenet Ramsay case, and other famous cases. After his retirement, he set up the National Cold Case Centre at the University of New Haven's Henry C. Lee Institute of Forensic Science.

Dr Henry Lee has been paying a lot of attention to the Elisa Lam case. Dr Lee is an avid proponent of the principle : "Let the evidence speak for itself". In his telephone interview with us, he uses his expertise to analyse the Elisa Lam case.

"This may not be a suicide."

NanDu : What are your views on the case?

Henry Lee : As I am not directly involved in this investigation, I can only offer an analysis based on information given by various news reports. It has been reported that her dead body was found in a water tank. So there can only be 2 reasons for this : She ended up in the tank on her own, or someone murdered her.

The manner of death is not the same as the cause of death. In America, there are 5 manners of death : Suicidal, Homicidal, Accidental, Natural, or Undetermined. And then there are about 30 causes of death, including drowning, poisoning, gunshot wound, stab wound, etc. This is why when a case like Elisa's occur, the first thing to do would be to ascertain whether she died before she entered water, or after. This is not difficult, because her abdomen and lungs can be examined to see if any water has entered them; her windpipe can be examined to see if the micro organisms inside are similar to the ones found in the tank, etc. Now the second thing to do would be to ascertain if she has any external or internal injuries. Then the third thing would be to see if there are any traces of drugs, alcohol, medications, etc. left in her system. Once we have obtained the results of these examinations, we can then evaluate and conclude this case. In the beginning, many media outlets speculated that Elisa committed suicide based on the circumstances, but this is not necessarily the case.

NanDu : Is it difficult to do all these medical examinations on her?

Henry Lee : The process can be roughly broken down into 3 steps. The first step is the autopsy. This ascertains if she has any stab wounds, strangulation injuries or gunshot wounds, if she had been beaten, knocked out, etc. This is usually very easy for the examiner to find out. Examining her abdomen and lungs for signs of water - this is also pretty straightforward. The second step - if Elisa had used any typical drugs or medications, this will be ascertained through the toxicology test, which is normally completed in 1 to 2 days. But to test for more unusual poisons or drugs in her system would require very specialised drug analysis that will require her specimens to be sent to a select few laboratories worldwide - these are the only places in the world which can conduct such specialised drug tests. The third step would be to look at Elisa's past medical history, see if she had any prior mental illness, and making comparisons between X-rays taken of her before her death, and after.

In addition, the water tank will be examined. What is its height? Was it locked previously? Would she have been able to climb up the tank? Can we find her fingerprints on the tank? I heard it reported that her body was found naked. Is that true? Or was she actually clothed? If she was found nude, then were there any of her personal items left behind between the time she left her room and just before she entered the tank? These questions will have to be answered by very experienced experts in this field.

"Let the evidence speak for itself, do not jump to conclusions."

NanDu: Going by the information we have been given by the media, do you have any opinions about what might have happened to Elisa?

Henry Lee : It is very hard to rely on information found on the Web. Even though the case has been published online and in newspapers, those involved in the investigation would normally prefer not to comment on the case, because we know that the information given out in the media is not often accurate. I don't usually have any opinions on cases because I think its more important to examine the evidence, let the evidence speak for itself. It is very important to take an absolutely unbiased attitude when investigating a case. Us investigators cannot jump to conclusions. If it really is the case that Elisa was found nude as per reports on the internet, then of course that makes the circumstances of her death suspicious. If she committed suicide, then it will be necessary to see if she had left a suicide note. Its very easy to find out if she had left any suicide note. Some people said perhaps she had got involved in a romantic situation that went wrong. All of these are just rumours. Without hard evidence, it is very hard to make any conclusions.

NanDu: So does that mean that its dangerous to make hasty assumptions?

Henry Lee : I believe we must go by hard evidence. The simplest thing to do is to wait for the investigating departments and the Coroner's office to release their investigation and autopsy reports. These are all official documents, so they will be publicly released. After that, we can then begin to analyse and review the case. In past investigations that I was involved in, it was apparent that even the most legit news sources can be biased and misleading - needless to say, internet sources are worse.

NanDu : There is surveillance footage of Elisa in an elevator. Are you aware of it?

Henry Lee : Oh yes, that video. It only shows her in the elevator. The police have made a portion of the video public - I'm sure the police possess more video footage of her other than that. We are also not certain at what time that video was taken. This is why it can be so misleading. We don't know if the police purposely released that video clip of her doing those actions. We don't know what the true intentions of the police were when they released that video. She was waiting for the elevator, but which floor was she on? For how long had she been loitering in and around the elevator? We just don't know the exact details.

"Solving a case is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle."

NanDu : According to American media sources, initial autopsy findings showed she had no signs of trauma or injury?

Henry Lee : Even if she had no signs of trauma or injury, there are still other questions to be answered : Where did her clothes end up? Were her clothes and shoes in her room? Were they found next to the water tank? This aspect would be publicly reported straight away. If I were an investigator on the scene, the first thing I'd be looking for would be her clothes, bags, purses, handphones, etc. These are personal items that modern girls usually have on them, so where are they? The surveillance footage taken of her already tells us what she was wearing on that day, so the first step must be to find these personal items of hers. After that, we need to look at whether she left any suicide notes in her room, whether there are any signs of a struggle that took place in her room, whether there are any cup(s), beer/wine/spirits bottle(s), or miscellaneous items left behind in her room. If beer/wine/spirits bottle(s) are found in her room, then laboratory tests will be conducted on any traces left behind in the bottle(s). If there are any cup(s) found in her room, then its much easier. Laboratory tests will be conducted on any traces left behind on the cup(s) and the results will be compared with what can be found in her body.

Also, we can find out from her handphone who were the last people she spoke to on the phone. The elevator footage should also tell the time and date of when the footage was recorded. It is imperative to form a detailed timeline of events starting from the day she was last seen alive. For this sort of case, this would require a lot of witnesses, soft and hard evidence, and they have to be pieced together like a jigsaw puzzle. At present all we have to go on is information available from media outlets and online. For this reason I am very reluctant to comment too much on this case.


NanDu : The Cecil Hotel has been the scene of many crimes. What is your opinion on this?

Henry Lee : The area around that hotel is not very safe, but that in itself doesn't prove she was murdered. It is very important to see if her body has any injuries, if there are any signs of sexual assault, and to find out why her body ended up in that water tank. Is it because the perpetrator didn't want to be found out? If the web reports are indeed true - if her body was really found to be naked - then of course her death becomes very suspicious and it would be imperative to find her clothes, whether they have been ripped/shredded, if there are any traces of mud, bodily fluids, hairs, etc. on them.

NanDu : Did the LAPD invite you to assist with this case?

Henry Lee : No. I have retired many times before. I am already out of the game. I am still involved in work at the National Cold Case Centre at the University of New Haven. If the Elisa Lam case remains unsolved for a long time, then it will be passed on to the National Cold Case Centre and we will assist in any way we can to solve this case. In America over 30% of cases so far have remained unsolved. There are on average 6000 to 7000 cases to solve every year. In addition, there are 20,000 to 30,000 sexual offence cases that remain unsolved as yet. So many cases go unsolved because of insufficient clues. And they become cold cases - unsolved cases. Now that I'm already retired, my National Cold Case Centre assists police forces worldwide - particularly the American police force, and we specialise in solving cold cases. If the LAPD does eventually announce they are unable to solve this case, and ask for assistance from the National Cold Case Centre, then we will assist. America is made up of many jurisdictions. It is not up to me to decide whether I will be investigating a particular case, no matter how much I may wish to.
 
are we allowed to post the translation and video and pictures from several chinese 'investigators', they gave a good insight to the hotel and great information. the thread said media info, so i wasn't sure.

Thank you for asking. As I understand, these are ordinary citizens doing their own investigations.

Therefore, these items do not belong in the MSM/Media thread.
 
Oh, I see. Not sure.

I really hope the mod can put those translations and videos and pictures into a thread as they are VERY valuable information. they took pictures of the hotel, the 14th floor, the room, the elevator. videoed and tested the door hold button, mimicked EL's movements inside and outside of the elevator and gave us a first person view of what EL could have seen. and anansie spent a ton of time translating everything to English for us. and all those posts are now lost in the massive thread somewhere.
 
Thank you for asking. As I understand, these are ordinary citizens doing their own investigations.

Therefore, these items do not belong in the MSM/Media thread.

I know, but is it possible to have it summarized in a different thread? they can't really be searched in english which makes it hard for others to find those information online. I just feel that if we have this information here, why not group it so that it's easier for others to find them? It's easy to dig up her blogs because they are in english. This is translation that our members did and are not available elsewhere.
 
I know, but is it possible to have it summarized in a different thread? they can't really be searched in english which makes it hard for others to find those information online. I just feel that if we have this information here, why not group it so that it's easier for others to find them? It's easy to dig up her blogs because they are in english. This is translation that our members did and are not available elsewhere.

I believe they are available in the Discussions thread, but I will certainly pose the question to Administrators if we could have just a separate "translation" thread.

Kind regards,
~Summer_Breeze
 
I believe they are available in the Discussions thread, but I will certainly pose the question to Administrators if we could have just a separate "translation" thread.

Kind regards,
~Summer_Breeze

They are in the Discussions Thread, but they are just buried under all the other posts. If you can set up a Translation Thread that would be GREAT!

Thanks you.
 
1. It's rumored that the water quality was checked on the 14th - we need to check if LAPD's time of death is because of that testing date, premature to the autopsy report - and then if it is, it may imply that they are around the water tanks when it is checked.

2. The video demonstrates odd, manic behavior. There are questions whether it could also be responsible for her own demise.

2a. She could be cracking her knuckles in anxiety rather than counting, evidence of being "off" her medication.*

2b. Hands to hair - tingling. "od" of Dexedrine? Reportedly easy to abuse, or trying to remember something.*

3. Graffiti is evidence that the roof is accessible to the public.

4. I don't believe the Chinese ever opened the door with the alarm. They were afraid to notify authorities. They opened the door to the balcony which did not have an alarm. Is this correct?

5. Toxicology will be looking for a presence of her medications as well as the street drugs. Since there is a gap between the last day she was seen and your listed time of death, it means a that they could rule her death as accidental/suicide due to a lack of prescribed substances in her body.

5a. Kidnapped
5b. Stayed in her bed in a severe depressive state, until suicide.*

6. Pathology reports are due, from what I have gathered. There may be areas that demonstrate cause of death that could not be seen in the gross assessment, but require sophisticated microscopy to ferret out.

----

*Add to the wild theories that one of the "resident druggies" may have stolen the prescriptions from her room, or during her check-in having heard the chut-chut of pills rocking as she walked, then lifted them from her suitcase while she was in the elevator. She may be trying to jog her memory by retracing her earlier steps in the video, which is why she is acting so strange.


regarding the fire exit door, this is the exact wording the chinese investigators said:
&#12288;&#21518;&#35805;&#65306;&#22312;&#35843;&#26597;&#32467;&#26463;&#20043;&#21518;&#65292;&#25105;&#21644;Brandon&#26469;&#27492;&#23581;&#35797;&#24182;&#25512;&#20102;&#27425;&#38376;&#65292;&#27492;&#38376;&#26159;&#38145;&#30528;&#30340;&#65292;&#24182;&#19988;&#27809;&#26377;&#24341;&#21457; &#35686;&#25253;&#12290;
(at the end of the investigation, both me and brandon went and tried to open the door, the door was locked and no alarm sounded)

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-100.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]
 
Not sure if this video has been posted yet or not. It's another video of a team that went inside Cecil (Chinese again)

[ame="http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwNzg4NTc2.html"]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwNzg4NTc2.html[/ame]
 
apparently, the fire exit to the roof is LOCKED, to me it sounds like it's actually physically locked and needs a physical Key to open.
 
Not sure if this video has been posted yet or not. It's another video of a team that went inside Cecil (Chinese again)

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwNzg4NTc2.html

Thanks. Can anyone translate what they're saying (if important)?

I find it interesting that two of the water tanks have the lids off. Still. It's like an invitation to put another body in there. You'd think they'd have at least covered all 4 tanks up in light of recent events...
 
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